The Worst Thing About His Music


As I'm sure nearly every person who criticizes Daniel Johnston on this board does I'll put the disclaimer to preempt a few impending insults. No I do not consider Backstreet Boys to be good music. No I don not listen to the radio. No I don't think unpolished music is without merit. Yes I read poetry and literature...Alot. Yes I watched the movie.

Anyway I sat through the film and came to this board to find many Johnston fans were making obvious concessions (the man cannot sing or play guitar) but for me the worst part of his music was by far his lyrics. There is nothing present in his lyrics except for simple rhyme schemes, junior high imagery, and an all around lack of understanding for human emotion. There is little merit in the rhyming of so and go as actually occurs in one of his songs. Any 9 year old could pen a "genius" Daniel Johnston track. Granted he is weird, obviously and I think thats where he got his start to fame, but he is as much of a musical genius as the homeless man down my street who plays guitar for change. When I watched the film I originally thought that aside from being bipolar that Daniel Johnston had to have some form of autism. If you think he is a musical genius I highly suggest you go back and look at the poetry of superior songwriters like Bob Dylan or even Elliott Smith.

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what do mean Even Eliott Smith, Elliott's is incredible and so is Daniel, I get your point and it's refreshing to see someone with a real critical opinion, I think you're completely right and these are some of the numerous reasons I love his work, it's ultra simple yet innovative in many ways, the guy is so sincere and humble a quality so rare in the music scene today.

The only problem with Daniel and this film is that they created a new hype that attracts stupid people who just go see his shows to scream I love you Dannniiiellll all the way through and never really listen to him...
.. sorry a little repressed frustrations..

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Alright, If you can't relate to Daniel's lyrics you must not be human. Bob Dylan's music is way too removed from real human emotions at a lot of points. Yeah, he has a lot of songs people can relate too, but it gets to a point when he's just writing average poetry and putting music too it. Why people eat it up so much is a mystery. Just because he's using more advanced words than Daniel makes him better? Emotion is emotion and it is hard to write a song so perfect and so simple as Daniel has. Listen to the "Don't be Scared" album and tell me he isn't a brilliant songwriter. That album kills all of Dylan's work.


"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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After listening to alot of his music, He ISNT a brilliant songwriter. Think about who your declaring to be this kind of genius. He is insane has considerably deeper mental problems and walks around like an invalid now. His skill as a writer is most certainly limited. Cite me one couplet that you think is amazing and I'll show you a couplet that could have appeared in an elementary school poetry book. And about Dylan not being in tune with human emotion, you are completely out of your mind. Which of these two people would be more in tune with the feelings and emotions of love, a man who has loved many lost many and expresses himself beautifully or a man who's romantic relationships basically boil down to stalking a few women and writes at a 4th grade level?

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It's obvious that you have heard a very limited amount of Daniel's work for your inability to mention examples of why he is a bad song writer. He writes like a 4th grader? How? Just stating your claim is not a good argument.

I'm not all about comparing Dylan and Daniel. They're both brilliant on their own terms. You don't have to be "educated" like Dylan to write a great song. They have different styles.

And just because he has mental problems means he isn't human? He can't have human emotions because of a disorder? Thats the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Seriously laughable man. Daniel's music isn't for everyone and I understand why people don't like it, but to say he isn't a great songwriter is just ridiculous.


"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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You are aware that in your post previous you directly compared Dylan and Daniel Johnston, I believe you said that a Johnston album "kills" Dylan's work. As to the ridiculous inferences you made about my feelings, you are wrong. Nowhere did I state that he can't have emotions because he has a mental disorder, Nowhere did I say he was inhuman. What I was trying to convey is people who immortalize Johnston as this genius appear to miss a key fact, he has no idea what he's doing. He certainly does not consciously sit there and try to eloquently convey his emotions, in fact oftentimes it seems he just finds a word that rhymes and builds a meaningless line on it. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you can't like his music, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but Daniel Johnston's songs remind me of a painting with paint strewn about, trying to imitate Jackson Pollock, people crowd around and talk about how it conveys anger or love but they fail to recognize that the artist can not and is not trying to accomplish something original.

Now for the examples of his poor songwriting:
from Crazy Love
"She brightens up my day
And everything about her is okay"

Aside from the obvious lack of coherent rhythm or even style, these lines mean little if anything, simple rhyme, missing syllabic rhythm and conveys nothing of love.

from Jelly Beans
"Oh Daddy don't you know
I'm gonna get some soda pop
Oh Daddy don't you know
I'm gonna have some candy bop"

Do I even need to explain why this is unbelievably piss-poor songwriting?

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1) "You are aware that in your previous post you directly compared Dylan and Daniel Johnston?"

--You are aware that I addressed the two in response to your comparision?

2) "Nowhere did I state that he can't have emotions because he has a mental disorder, Nowhere did I say he was inhuman."

--"He is insane has considerably deeper mental problems and walks around like an invalid now." Maybe you didn't say he was inhuman, but that's pretty close.

3) "He certainly does not consciously sit there and try to eloquently convey his emotions, in fact oftentimes it seems he just finds a word that rhymes and builds a meaningless line on it."

--You are aware that Daniel's condition became "terrible" in the 1990's, many albums into his repetiteur? Didn't they mention that in "the movie."

4) Those two songs are from 1994, an era when Daniel was a loose cannon. Anyone can choose less serious lyrics and act as if the artist consistently writes like that. The man wrote hundreds of songs, if all of them were good that would be scary. Here are some of the ones you were over-looking when you write him off as a looney.

From "My Yoke is Heavy"

-"It's new to me
But just the same
the earth is an old canvas
painted over many times"

From a guy that doesn't have a grasp on reality? That's some of the most simple, honest songwriting I've ever seen.

From "The Sun Shines Down on Me"

-"I’m walking down that empty road
It ain’t empty now because I’m on it
And I’m getting closer to a hope
That I can carry and take home with me"

Universal longing and pain? Sooo childish.

5) Let's do this with Dylan! Sounds like fun!

From "Wiggle, Wiggle, Wiggle"

-"Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle like a gypsy queen,
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle all dressed in green,
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle 'til the moon is blue,
Wiggle 'til the moon sees you."

Wiggle, Wiggle, Wiggle, shut the hell up.

From "Death is not the End"

-"When you're sad and when you're lonely and you haven't got a friend
Just remember that death is not the end
And all that you've held sacred, falls down and does not mend
Just remember that death is not the end
Not the end, not the end
Just remember that death is not the end"

I think I remember somthing like this in "4th Grade." Easily the most childish lyrics Bob ever penned.

6) It seems to me that you saw the film, didn't know a thing about Daniel or his music and assumed he wrote all of his albums with such a terrible condition and proceeded to judge him based upon a limited amount of material. Daniel was a pretty normal anti-social teen when he wrote "Don't Be Scared" before he was 20. As his condition worsened, so did his song-writing skill. So while I agree with you that someone in Daniel's condition cannot write "great songs" (although he is still able to write good ones as well as preform brilliantly) he wrote te bulk of his work before being institutionalized.

7) "Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you can't like his music, everyone is entitled to their own opinion"

Oh wow, thanks for letting me have an opinion! Dont get me wrong here, I never said you had to like Daniel's music, it's not for everyone. His voice and guitar playing skills aren't polished and that turns many people off, but to say he isn't a good song-writer (and that he writes at a 4th grade level) is just ridiculous.





"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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Bob Dylan is a genius songwriter. His songs give me chills, especially when he sings:

"She takes just like a woman
She makes love just like a woman
She aches just like a woman
But she breaks just like a little girl."

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I remember hearing tons of Daniel Johnston's songs on college radio stations in the late 80s. They were always played for irony's sake; NOT because the man is a lyrical genius. He's certainly not a musical genius in the instrumental/vocal sense.

I “get” some of Daniel’s appeal, because I really enjoy Song-Poems. For the uninitiated: a Song-Poem is the end result of those ads you see in tabloid newspapers calling for lyrics and poems. Some poor guy sends in his lyrics and, for a fee, a group of musicians and singers (aka song sharks) offer to record the lyrics with promises of hit tunes and superstardom for the original writer. (See the documentary "Off The Charts" for more info.)

The results are occasionally amazing and always sincere. I think Johnston's work is equally sincere, and that's why some people appreciate it.

I think other people appreciated his work for the sake of hipness. He was not merely out on a limb, but off the tree completely, and people who wanted to be seen as "cutting edge" embraced him so that they could appear as edgy as he was.

But there's cruelty and exploitation at work here, too. As I watched the documentary, I wanted to kick the second manager in the balls for pushing Daniel in directions he's not mentally equipped to handle. And then that same slimeball manager is compared to Broadway Danny Rose? How dumb are these people?

In respect to his music and his amateurish, undeveloped art, Daniel is an emperor with no clothes. But lots of rockstar celebrity types *say* he's wearing diamonds and velvet, and I guess some people who *want* to be like their favorite rockstars have fallen for it completely.

I started listening to the DVD commentary, but about a minute in, the director and producer said that Daniel was their Dylan, and I had to shut it off. And the sad part is; you can tell as you watch the doc that the filmmakers feel that way, but they don't capture Daniel's "genius" at all. If I hadn't been familiar with Johnston's work, I would have thought this film to be another Spinal Tap... except, unlike Johnston, the actors/members of Spinal Tap can actually sing, write, and play!

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tallankybstrd, you're great...I love Allen's reaction; brilliant


and abby8, while I agee that some hipsters listen to Daniel for sake of being cool, the majortiy of Daniel's fans fall into the first category: people who love his sincere, brilliant talent.

The people who have been keeping him in line throughout the years, his parents, are not exploiting him. They realize that people love his art and music and see that Daniel has a great time playing songs. You make it seem like anyone who listens to Daniel music must be doing it for reasons other then that they actually enjoy it.

To the filmmakers, Daniel is their Dylan. Dylan is so well loved as a personal favorite to so many people, that it was merely a comparison to feeling you get when hearing Daniel. For me, Daniel is Dylan in that sense too. His music is the most relatable thing in my life, and I don't like it just to be part of the hip crowd.




"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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I'll buy that people appreciate his "sincerity." But his "brilliant talent"? No.

I do believe the majority of people who claim to be fans of his alleged genius are very impressionable sorts fueled by motivations other than bad taste. "Impressionable" is a key concept here. Look how often supporters of Daniel have to name-drop Cobain when they try to validate Johnston's work (and Bowie, and Waits, et al).

And yeah, Daniel was having such a great time when his manager was booking gigs and trying to establish recording contracts that he openly wept and trembled onstage, chased a woman out a window, and tried to kill himself and his father in an airplane. His manager was completely irresponsible… and exploitative. The poor man needed extensive, seamless professional help, not a contract with Elektra.

As a portrait of how mental illness affects a man and his family, this film works. As a portrait of a creative genius… sorry, it’s just not there.

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It doesn't matter to me wheter or not the film works to show his genius, his songwriting alone does more than that. I don't need validation in a Documentary. One goal of the film was to expand Daniel's fanbase, and no matter why people like Daniel (to be cool, to be cutting edge, or just because they recoginze amazing music), the film suceeded on that level. I had a chance to catch two Daniel shows last month in NYC and everyone in the crowd (sold out both nights) was extremely respectful and really enjoyed the music he played. From where I was standing (front, center both nights), no one was there to be cool.

Forget Bowie, forget Cobain, forget Waits; actually listen to the music. Listen to the music that has remained the same since it was recorded in the early 1980s- before Daniel was on MTV, before Daniel was a national celebrity. A time when he would hand out tapes on the street. The music is the same regardless of the way people see the man. Yeah, there are people who are going to see the appeal in "that Johnston guy" because he is respected amongst the likes of legends, but you ever think the reason a guy like Bowie would enjoy Daniel is because he recognizes talent? Just becuase you don't see the appeal and don't like Daniel's music does not mean his sucess is a hack; he has earned every praise he has ever recieved.

Daniel is happy now; he is alive and well. The scary episodes of yesteryear (including the shocking plane incident) are in the past. So, while at the time it was probably a risky thing to do--pushing him beyond his limits--Daniel will always hold those incidents close to him.

Focus more on the music and less on the film because thats what this whole discussion was about: his music.


"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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WHAT MUSIC? It's mostly rhythm-less, tuneless noise. That goes for the clunky, childish lyrics and Johnston's pedestrian instrumentation.

And yes, celebrity types like Waits, Bowie, etc. often lend endorsements to "reportedly cool" acts to make themselves look like they've a finger on the pulse of fringe culture. It happens ALL THE TIME, but it happened an awful lot when MTV was still relatively new. (Old Skull, anyone?)

The people I know who've embraced Johnston without irony -- and I mean ALL OF THEM -- are also people who'll embrace ANYTHING they perceive as "out there" regardless of the quality. In Johnston's case, there's so little artistic value in his work that I can't even fathom listening to his music for any other reason other than increasing one's hip quotient.

Look, I enjoyed the film. I see beauty in Johnston's DIY distribution of his homemade tapes. And I even see how Johnston's work fits into the original punk-rock philosophy of placing sincerity before talent and skills. But that original punk-rock approach to music didn't yield a lot of long-term fruit. The best artists who initially subscribed to punk rock all eventually realized that real skills and talent produce far better MUSIC. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say Johnston's mental disorders prohibited him from growing as a musician... but it certainly doesn't mean the undeveloped noise he makes has any merit beyond novelty status.

Although I enjoyed the film as a study of mental illness, and I'm charmed by Johnston's need to create, I remain mystified that, somehow, Johnston was supposed to seem like a genius of Dylan's caliber through the course of the film. It cheapens the accomplishments of real creative geniuses. And it smacks of the old cliche, "If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes truth."

You say Johnston's “scary episodes” are all behind him now. That's as unrealistic as saying he's another Dylan. The film certainly gives one the impression that everything's coming up roses for Johnston, but that impression is either clueless, pure exploitation, or maybe a little of both. I also think that rosy outlook is setting him up for an inevitable fall, and that’s far crueler than saying his music sucks.

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For reasons that shall remain in the realm of private messages, I'd like to retract my previous wish to kick Johnston's second manager in the balls. Seems like he wanted/wants the best for Johnston, though I still question the logic and motivations of those who seem hellbent on giving him more than enough rope to hang himself with.

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You aren't worth arguing with. I don't give a *beep* about the movie, I don't give a *beep* that you liked the movie, and I don't give a *beep* that you don't like Daniel Johnston. I just don't see where you get off thinking that everyone has to like the same thing as you. I would never listen to the Eagles, or Coldplay, but I understand how someone could like it. They don't like the same things as me, oh well. And wheter or not you want to believe it, people like Daniel because he is a fantastic songwriter and great artist. I'm an example.



"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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Warhol said that most people will believe you if you tell them you should be famous, no matter how untalented you are. I think you were one of the "believers" Warhol was talking about.


And, after rewatching the film, I'd like to retract my retraction. Daniel's second manager may not deserve a kick to the balls, but someone should have hit him over the head with a lead pipe. That's what it took for the first manager to get a clue.

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I think Andy Warhol falls into the category of someone who wanted to be famous so bad, that no matter how mediocre his art, his "unique personality" made him an icon.

Jeff Tatrakov is a great man who spent a lot of time and effort in order to expand Daniel's music to more people. Even after the movie; after everyone and their mother heard of Daniel, Tatrakov was still only charging 5 bucks per tape; tapes which he spent his time copying, one by one.

I really don't care that you think I'm a "believer," whatever the hell you mean by that; I know how Daniel's music: his thoughtful, sincere, funny, honest, beautiful, touching music makes me feel. It's not the hype; it's not the "movie" (which no matter what I say to the contrary, you feel is the only representation of Daniel); it's not the hipness; it's the music.

Once again we are at the point where people obviously love Daniel's music(myself included, as well as the thousands of fans who come to see his shows) and for some reason (jealousy, stupidity, ignorence) you refuse to believe this. In reality, though, you must realize that people like him yet your refusing to believe it because he has mental issues.

I would suggest--like I suggested to the original poster--to actually listen to his music and not just the songs featured in the "movie." If you don't like it, too bad, but at least give it a chance before you make your shallow observations about his talent.


"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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...and for some reason (jealousy, stupidity, ignorence) you refuse to believe this.

"Ignorence." Yeah, that must be it.

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While I appreciate your assistance in spelling, I feel as though it was a cop out reply so you didn't have to respond seriously to my post.


"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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While I appreciate your assistance in spelling, I feel as though it was a cop out reply so you didn't have to respond seriously to my post.

That's probably because I can't take ANYTHING you post seriously.

I'm no grammar Nazi on message boards. But you lose all credibility when you say someone is "stoopid," and you yourself can't spell "stupid."

Plus, you apparently possess no mature self-awareness. You say you're not concerned about appearing "hip," yet on your profile you thought it was necessary to qualify your Johnny Depp appreciation by saying, "I try not to love him because everybody else does..." Which says to me that you're EXACTLY the type of person I’ve been talking about: the type who'll embrace a quirky no-talent simply because you think it runs against the mainstream.

Rejecting all things mainstream simply because they're mainstream is the number one hallmark of self-righteous hipsters everywhere.

You toss out comments like, "I would never listen to the Eagles, or Coldplay, but I understand how someone could like it. They don't like the same things as me, oh well." I guess you're trying to show how open-minded and non-mainstream you are? Yet you're the first person to tell people who see through the Daniel Johnston publicity machine to post on Eagles and Coldplay forums… suggesting they simply don’t understand “good,” “non-mainstream” music.

There’s a huge disconnect between the film’s central conceit (Daniel Johnston is a brilliant, underappreciated artist/musician with mental problems) and the story that’s actually portrayed in the documentary (Daniel Johnston is a mentally troubled man whose music and art would hold no appeal were it not for his mental illness and a small coterie of people oblivious to the severity of his illness who've led him into dangerous situations). I posted here because I hoped I wasn’t the only one who saw or felt the aforementioned disconnect. Thankfully, I’ve learned I’m NOT alone.

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Calm the hell down about spelling, that has nothing to do with it and you know it. And if we're going to go profile searching and board browsing to prove that I'm "just that type of person" lets not completely scew things; let's try to be fair. And for the record: most actors getting nominations at award shows and praises on Entertainment Tonight are just a bunch of over-paid, no-talent hacks. That why I prefaced my Depp comment in that way.

When asked who the best songwriter is: "Number one for me is a tie between Paul Simon and Daniel; both of them are amazing songwriters." Who the heck is that Paul Simon guy? It can't be the guy who has had 600,000+ at multiple concerts, could it? It can't be the guy who has had multiple albums peak at #1 on the charts, could it? It sure as hell can't be the guy who has won album of the year at the grammy's multiple times, chould it? Oh that Paul Simon, my own underground legend. Thank god I'm the only one who knows who he is because I wouldn't like him if he were popular.

Good try to prove me wrong once again, but by only using your select quotes you've presented a misleading argument. You don't like Daniel for some reason or another and since you ran out of ideas, your best bet was to question my credibility. In doing so, though, you fail again. Don't listen to Daniel's music, fine by me. When, however, you question my motives for liking Daniel, get your argument straight.


"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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I imagine I’m feeling like Banksy would if he ever played Pictionary with Stevie Wonder. No matter how many clear illustrations Banksy provided – even if he spray-painted murals so big they could be seen from space -- little Stevie would never get it.

Oh well.

You know what this thread really needs right about now? An old-fashioned anti-Semitic joke to lighten the mood. Hear any good ones lately?

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I refuted your idiotic statement and now I "don't get it"?

OK, that makes sense to me.



"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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You'll probably never read this, abby8, but thank you.

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I know this has nothing to do with Ol' Danny but why are there bad vibes being sent to Waits?

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The point here is entirely missed. Speaking from the perspective of a huge dylan/johnston fan, owning every album in each of their collections (as well as neil young and elliot smith for all other arguments).

Well here, look at it like this. Not everyone who likes Johnston or Dylan or any other musician out there is a definitive follower of trend. Music is transcendent in the way where you don't have to explain why its good, why its important, why it feels the way it does. True, Johnston may not be the most trained or polished musician in the world, or rather, not even close to any of those things. But thats what makes him different, special. It's an untampered way of perceiving musicianship and creativity, something that not everyone else in the world can look at. I say this, also, speaking from the perspective of a person fighting against manic-depressive disorder as well.

It's hard to explain but at certain times, you feel like you can connect to... something different; than other people can and different than yourself can in "normal states".

However, I'm very tired and I seem to be stringing together a weak argument and rambling. Basic point: it makes me, at the very least, feel connected to something. Thats special, regardless of anything else. Feel free to believe what you want, but never say a fan is simply a follower. That's a cheap cop-out and a complete overindulgent judgement that is not fair in the least bit.

And I'm always willing to talk music with anyone and everyone, whenever. Thats the point. Screw argument, encourage discussion.

oh god, i am the american dream

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Sure his music may not be the most polished and nice sounding but its raw and its from the heart. And you gotta give it to the guy that hes been through a lot and has worked hard to get to where he is now. Even in the early 80s you could just see him wandering around Austin handing out free cassettes to people. I have a great deal of respect for him. While i have never met Daniel Johnston personally or even seen a live show of his in person, i used to live in Austin back in the day and he was held in very high regard. My cousins used to actually see his live shows back in the good old days if i find any concert footage ill be sure to throw it on youtube, i'll just have to convert it from VHS to a digital format first though.

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[deleted]

"I do believe the majority of people who claim to be fans of his alleged genius are very impressionable sorts fueled by motivations other than bad taste."

That is quite a statement.

You dont have to be impressionable to like Daniel Johnston and you can think hes a genius. Personally do I like Dylan? Yes sure, I also think hes possibly the most overrated lyricist ever (in terms of hes considered the greatest lyricist ever which I most certainly do not think he is). I dont think hes even close to Neil Young for example.

As for a Dylan/Johnston comparison its apples and oranges. If you want a great lyricist go listen to Aesop Rock, he runs circles around Dylan.

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I don't know why he isn't behind bars. Hit his manager with a lead pipe, caused an elderly woman to jump out a window and break broke ankles; nearly killed his parents in their plane. He should be far away from society.
And his music isn't even anything that special. It's kid stuff.




"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

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[deleted]

I don't know why he isn't behind bars. Hit his manager with a lead pipe, caused an elderly woman to jump out a window and break broke ankles; nearly killed his parents in their plane. He should be far away from society.
And his music isn't even anything that special. It's kid stuff.




"Joey, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?"

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Im just gonna agree and say Elliott Smith is a far superior song writer.
I loved this doc. though.
Also, Dylans over-rated.

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[deleted]

Usually I don't jump in on conversations like this, because it's seems kinda pointless. I mean, in actuality, we're debating taste here, and that's a tricky proposition.

I love the accusations that Daniel Johnston has no talent, and anyone who thinks he does is just a faker trying to pretend he's out there and cool. That's so retarded, and one could just as easily make the same type of judgment about people who say Daniel Johnston sucks. You're just trying to appear cooler and more knowledgeable about music than the people who like Daniel Johnston. But how is this helpful?

Now, being a musician myself, I can try and explain to you the appeal of Daniel Johnston, not that you'll particularly listen or are even interested. I mean, who takes all this time to go to a message board to repeatedly point out how much you hate an artist?

For me, the appeal of my favorite bands (Waits, Radiohead, Neutral Milk Hotel, etc.) is the emotion behind the music. When asked what differentiates music from noise, the only good explanation I've ever heard was "Music is noise attempting to communicate an emotion). And Daniel Johnston's music has emotion in spades. The guy was brutally honest in his lyrics, heart wrenchingly so. A couple sample couplets that I find particularly beautiful, since the original poster asked for some, are:

Please hear my cry for help
And save me from myself

I'm walking down that empty road
But it ain't empty now, because I'm on it

Everyone and friends and family
Saying hey man get a job
Why do you only do that only?
What are you so odd?
We don't really like what you do
We don't think anyone ever will
It's a problem that you have
And that problem's made you ill

I could list more, but the brutal honesty behind these lines is really admirable. I love Bob Dylan as well, but as previous posters have pointed out, he can be just as hit or miss as Daniel Johnston can be, and I certainly can appreciate that his low fi sound doesn't appeal to a lot of people. But to say people only likehis music because it's "cool" seems disingenuous and a cop out.

The other massive appeal is how ahead of his time Johnston was. One of the most ground breaking albums of the 90's was Neutral Milk Hotel's An Aeroplane Over the Sea, a favorite album of mine. Most of the current "indie" bands are incorporating, if not wholesale copying their sound (I'm looking at you Decemberists). And if you haven't heard that CD, I would encourage you to do so, because it's really amazing. But once you're familiar with NMH's sound, and the current indie music sound, go listen to "Walking the Cow" by Johnston. It might as well be a long lost NMH song. It's amazing to think that it was recorded in '83, and that stylistically it is now being copied wholesale by bands like Mates of State, The Decemberists, Panda Bear, and a whole lot more of critically acclaimed groups working right now. It only took them 15 years to get to where he was.

I'm the first to recognize that not everyone Daniel does is a work of genius (which is true of every artist, be they musician, filmmaker, writer, or painter), but to pretend the guy is some sort of man child who never wrote anything of worth is to miss out on a lot of great stuff, and really belies ignorance about music. TO say he doesn't appeal to you is one thing, to say his music is garbage is, well, idiotic.



Buck Williams
What's the status morning flatus?

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His lyrics aren't "great" by any stretch. He has quite an original sound, and the way he sings actually reminds me of Robert Smith a lot, but he's not a genius, he's just crazy. Yes, he has an original perspective on things - people with mental illness usually do. They see things differently, and the unusual perspective in this case does not come from genius, but sickness.

"I've seen things that would make you want to write a book on how to puke."

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He doesn't walk around like an invalid.

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"Which of these two people would be more in tune with the feelings and emotions of love, a man who has loved many lost many and expresses himself beautifully or a man who's romantic relationships basically boil down to stalking a few women and writes at a 4th grade level?"

Bob is more in tune to relationships and heartrbreak, Daniel is more in tune to longing for love. Everyone's life experience is equally valid.

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"My hopes lay shattered like a mirror on the floor
I see myself and I look really scattered
But I lived my broken dreams"

it doesn't have to be complex to be brilliant.

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Daniel is great but Dylan is the best.

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Dylan is the greatest songwriter ever, hands down. His catalogue is amazing. Daniel Johnston is great, but better than Dylan he is most certainly not.

Besides, they both have differing styles that make comparisons just about impossible and moot.

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[deleted]

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Listen to the "Don't be Scared" album and tell me he isn't a brilliant songwriter. That album kills all of Dylan's work.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Funniest thing I have EVER read on iMDB.

;)

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He has a lot to be humble about.

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I agree with the general idea that Daniel's music isn't anything too special. He's very sincere and he truly feels his music is the best you can say about him.

If you want to see a better movie about a better raw, unpolished mentally unstable singer/songwriter who's over-rated, I highly recommend Dig!. At least that's a really well done documentary with a captivating story.

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daniel johnston is the best.

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UH....I just saw this movie and read thru the last 4 pages of back and forth, and this seems to be the best appraisal of the whole thing.
"Just because someone tries hard doesn't make them good" is right on. And I think alot of his stuff seemed to not attempt to sum up the universal truths or whatever that put something into the great art realm. It seemed kind of to have a small ambition.....but he did seem to have a couple profound quotes. Maybe I need to hear more of his songs, but at the end of the day he's an interesting figure no matter how you cut it for sure.

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It's not trying that makes Daniel great, it's succeeding.

To me, it's great. To a lot of you, it's not. I'm still going to defend my position, and as far as my argument ith abby, I clearly won. I just prefer when people actually have backing for their statements.


...Here's to another Daniel concert on Feburary 21, 2008 at Highline Ballroom in New York City; it's going to be fantastic.


"I was chewin' gum for something to do, the blinds were being pulled down on the dew"

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The Brian Jonestown Massacre are NOT overrated. They one the best band of the past decade or so and they're barely known at all. Daniel Johnston's music is great as long as you're listening to music for as a creative and emotional expression rather than as pleasant background music (though I do find his melodies and sound very appealing)

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please don't try to correct people's perception of art

besides, there's the human condition factor... I think many who have some kind of disturb themselves or with close ones will find his story and his art interesting at least

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Ummm... no.

I'm an elementary school teacher who works with nine year old all day.

Rarely have I seen any nine year old come close to the depth of meaning and thoughtfulness that Daniel Johnston put into his songs!

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christ, you people have issues:)

anyway, can't we just accept the fact that music, movies and all forms of art are pretty much subjective making it impossible to come up with definite statements? Tastes just differ, that's all

when I came across daniel's music about five years ago it was a genuine revelation for me, never before and never since has music been able to touch me so profoundly, I was in a pretty dark place at the time and listening to daniel actually helped me get over myself

wanting to share this discovery with others I soon found out that most people really don't like him very much, but so what? It never amounted to the argument that's been developing here, we just accepted the fact that I liked it and they didn't and that was the end of it

why do you feel the need to "break through the myth" so much? I really don't think people listen to his music to be hip or cool, daniel is about as un-cool as you can get, I think the vast majority will never like his music, it's just something for a very specific audience

now there's tons of music I really don't like but I don't go around bashing on the people who do like it, if it works for them, fine, daniel works for me, what's so wrong about that?

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I'll give you this.

He can't play guitar. He can't sing. And he has no stage precense.

Lyrically, he can suck but sometimes he hits homeruns:

Don't let the sun go down on your grievances
Respect love of the heart over lust of the flesh
Do yourself a favor: become your own savior
And don't let the sun go down on your grievances

And when you wake up in the morning
You'll have a brand new feeling
And you'll find yourself healing
So don't let the sun go down on your grievances


Again, art is in the eye of the beholder. Remember that too :)
******************
and we generally say, "Well, if that was in a movie, I wouldn't believe it.

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the appeal of daniel johnston(to me) is his creativeness. he's clearly not a secret genius, but he isn't by any means your standard artist. it seems to be all knows how to do, is draw pictures and play music. like someone in the documentary said, he wasn't looking up to anyone or even getting inspiration from famous artists at the time he wasn't trying to be anyone else. and that says alot to me, you know, to not give a frick what anyone else is doing. he was just pure output. and that might have been because of his mental illness but to be in your own world like that is inspiring. it's hard not to care about what anyone else is doing or to be so original. that going hand in hand with his youthfulness and his sense of humor, you see alot of that in all the movies he made and in his songs. he's a kid at heart that just wants to be creative and i can relate to that. and what he's accomplished is quite fantastic thinking about all he's been through and put his family and friends through. i do enjoy his piano melodies more and i think his songwriting style is simplistic, which doesn't equal less intelligent, just more direct. so to compare him with bob dylan just is absurd. and whether you like his music or not you can't deny that he's driven by nothing more than his love for it. it's really sad that he won't get to enjoy some of the things that everyone else has but I'm happy that he isn't dead or in an institution and he can continue to play his music for us.
wrap up: his brilliance isn't in his eloquence or his instrument playing or his unusual singing voice. it's in his persistent creativity and originality and passion.

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I must say I have to agree with 8Milesux (great name, btw and true). I just watched the film and kept waiting for his music to blossom into something that didn't sound like it was written by a child. Remember the scene in Cuckoo's Nest where the patients are in the yard of the hospital and there are two patients, one playing a guitar and one playing some sort of tin whistle? They are both playing music unrelated to what the other is playing, yet they ARE playing together and the overall sound is kinda, somewhat, sort of intriguing? That sums up DJ for me. I mean, genius? No. Not even close. Interesting, yes. And comparing him with Brian Wilson? Aside from the mental health aspect, there is no comparison. Brian Wilson wrote songs with actual melodies that made musical sense. Chaotic lyrics sung over 3 poorly played chords is not brilliance.
I think we all know a few kids that can paint exactly like Jackson Pollock (not to mention Koko the gorilla; now that's some kick ass art, right there!).

We need to stop thinking anything remotely unusual is genius. Maybe that's just indicative of our (western civilization's) moment in history. If it is, the end is nigh.

"I don't care if he's been rogering the Duke of York with a prize winning leek!

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> Chaotic lyrics sung over 3 poorly played chords is not brilliance.

How many times must it be said? You can't determine the extent of Dan's abilities from the music in the movie alone. The producers, for better or worse, concentrated on picking music that reflected the contents of the movie over choosing a comprehensive "best-of" Daniel Johnston for the s/t.

For instance, here's the lyrics to a short but great song about a gossip, which are hardly "chaotic":

SCUTTLEBUTT - from "The What of Whom" (1982)

She's always ready for the worst of news,
And she's hopin' it may be you.
She knows all the scuttlebutt about the whatnot
That she doesn't want forgot.
Rumor is a wind that blows so smart,
It doesn't even know who you are.

She's standing there waiting at the top of the stairs
With her eyes fixed on you like glue.
"Where are you going now, and where have you been?
What is your latest sin?"

(Spoken in announcer's voice):
She's into the big time!
She reads the National Enquirer!
She stretches the truth with such imagination,
She's more of a writer than a liar!

(Repeat 1st verse)

(On a tangent, I'm stunned that I don't hear Townes Van Zandt fans complaining about the soundtrack of HIS documentary -- 90% of it seems to consist of lines from the same two songs played over and over!)

- notdan

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