Whats with the magic memory wave? - The Giver (2014) Discussion

[–] Screen_Queen 10 years ago

He doesn't die. The book has the same ending, and the author has stated that though the ending is ambiguous, Jonas most definitely lives.

We're running around like we don't care
It's gonna leave its mark somewhere.

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[–] kay_rock 9 years ago

The sequels answer that question definitively.

Movies are IQ tests. The IMDB boards are each person's opportunity to broadcast their score.

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[–] warlockuk 9 years ago

There's going to be a sequel?!? That was the most pointless, predictable and nonsensical pile of dung I've seen since Divergent. Just... utterly, utterly terrible.

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[–] kay_rock 9 years ago

There are four books in the series (the Giver predates Divergent by more than a decade, btw).

The series is not what you expect. You are introduced to other communities. Not every community operates the same way as the one we saw in the first book/film.

You might find you enjoy the book series. The first book won the Newberry Award and is often taught in schools. Those who have read the book might have a harder time "hating" the film so much. It may not be the best possible adaptation of the material, but it is far from being the worst.

Movies are IQ tests. The IMDB boards are each person's opportunity to broadcast their score.

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[–] diamonds2892 9 years ago

Don't listen to these trolls. There are no sequels to The Giver.

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[–] A_Bob 9 years ago

There may not be a sequel to the movie, but there was one true sequel to "The Giver". "The Messenger" was the third book and a sequel to both the first two books. The second book, "Gathering Blue" was barely a sequel with only a mention of a boy with very blue eyes in another village. "The Messenger" bridges both books as a proper sequel to both. "Son" is a midquel to all three books, starting in the village from "The Giver" before the events of the book and continues through the events of "Messenger" and beyond.

Bob

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[–] abstranity 7 years ago

I had no idea this was a book.
I just happened to watch it on Netflix.

Based off this post, I now have the boxed set coming in the mail.
I look forward to seeing how this world continues.

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[–] robbrock3 9 years ago

He goes to the Land of Always Christmas right? Is that what that house was?

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[–] Screen_Queen 9 years ago

I think so. I haven't actually read the second book, I've only read about it on Wikipedia. But I think that's what they said that house was.

I make it a rule not to talk to ghosts when I'm sober.

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[–] Furthea 10 years ago

The technology that made it so that the Giver and Receiver of memories could share and ensured that a child was occasionally born who could be a receiver, is how.

When the Receiver crossed the boundary he 'unlocked' the door. The wave carried the memories and whatever nano-technology that the daily injection carried would be able to interpret the 'radio waves' that were a reaction of the door being opened.

At least that's how I look at it.

"lupus magnus est, lupus fortis est, lupus deus est"

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[–] NickNasty 9 years ago

I think it was more of a case of the author knowing where she wanted to go in the story just not knowing how to get there.

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[–] A_Bob 9 years ago

The author had nothing to do with the memory wave. The book was written with an ambiguous ending where the reader could decide if Jonas made it or not. It wasn't until 21 years after she published the book that it was determined in "The Messenger" what happened at the end of "The Giver" and nothing specific was stated about how it happened.

Bob

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[–] guidodi34 10 years ago

Haven't read the book myself but someone who did mentioned in another post that the machine that releases the wave wasn't in the book. Which makes sense, if I want to keep the world trapped and with no memories I wouldn't build a machine to destroy that very same thing either.

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[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

There was no machine in the book. The farther Jonas (and Gabriel) got from the Community, the more their memories were released.

But if you really think about it, any kind of people who can have access to all memories of the past would have a hard time. The only problem is that getting rid of these memories also got rid of their deeper emotions leaving them only as shells of people with only shallow emotions.

Bob

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[–] dileas 10 years ago

That still sounds stupid. What the hell does it mean for memories to be "released"? And why would it be geography dependant? It's an absurd plot device that seems just carelessly tacked on to an otherwise beautiful movie / book.

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[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

Released into the aether. I don't know that the author described that. Maybe the memories are centered around the people rather than the geography and that if any Receiver gets too far away from the people, the memories are released back to them.

Bob

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[–] dileas 10 years ago

Released into the aether.

The "aether" is a concept which nobody has taken seriously since Einstein. Was the book written in 1910?

It's still meaningless since it's just another way of saying "released into space". Which tells us nothing. You can't "release" memories. For one thing, they're not trapped. For another - assuming you mean "broadcast" rather than "release" - there's no mechanism for doing so, nor is there a mechanism for anyone else to receive them.

Of course, "The Giver" manages to send his memories over to "The Receiver" with just a simple touch, so I suppose we should take it as given that this advanced society has discovered some way to transmit memories. It's still all very hand-wavy and nonsensical though. And it could have been avoided with just a simple switch; instead of having memories magically flying around all over the place, just use the damn screens which are all-pervasive in that society.

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[–] A_Bob 10 years ago

I am just using the term aether. This is a story about a telepathic society where memories of the past are available to everyone. This society long ago decided to create an honored position of the Receiver to hold all of those memories in order to prevent everyone from sharing them. When Rosemary released herself before, her memories went to the people. In the case of death or Receiver going too far away, the memories return to the people. It's just how the universe works in this story.

This was the explanation in the book. They obviously changed it for the movie.

Bob

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[–] dileas 9 years ago

Gotcha. Sounds like the book does a much better job of setting up a believable universe.

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[–] shawn_hardin 9 years ago

Oh no, it's a technology that doesn't exist and I don't understand the inner workings of it so it's a ridiculous plot device. If it was the 16th century a device that allows someone in england to converse with someone in china would seem like a ridiculous plot device. But, it seems completely plausible to you and I since phones are everywhere. Use your imagination a little bit.

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[–] dileas 9 years ago

You may be as poorly informed as a 16th century resident of China; don't assume the same about others. We've learned a hell of a lot more about the universe since then.

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[–] shawn_hardin 9 years ago

We believe we have because we are guilty of pride. We believe that we know what is possible and a magic memory wave doesn't fit into that. One thing all the technology we have created should tell you is that very little is impossible. Just things that we haven't figured out how to do yet. But hey, keep your pessimistic view if youwish, your in good company here.

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[–] A_Bob 9 years ago

There is no way to make memories available to anyone but the person experiencing them. Sci-fi writers have tried to come up with things, but they mostly fall into the fantasy realm. The book was a fantasy. The movie's version was a combination of sci-fi and fantasy.

The way the Giver gives the memories to the Receiver is complete fantasy and requires a telepathic ability that does not exist in humans.

Bob

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[–] shawn_hardin 8 years ago

One could say the same thing about your voice or a picture of a far distant place. It is folly to believe that just because we haven't discovered the technology yet, that we never will.

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[–] A_Bob 8 years ago

I am not saying that we will never come up with a way to share memories, just that currently, we cannot. However, telepathy was at the center of the sharing of memories in both the book and movie. Even with the technology that kept the memories only with the Giver and Receiver, it does not explain how the memories went into everyone's minds.

Bob

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[–] Mantiso 7 years ago

The problem isn't that it's sci fi tech beyond our understanding. It's that even the characters and the writer herself has no idea how it works (I realise the book writer didn't write that part so let's blame the screenwriter). That is the definition of lazy writing. It's one of the worst examples of a Deus Ex Machina I've seen in years.
When you have a magic device that can deliver a happy ending in the blink of an eye it needs to make sense. It needs to be set up and established and somewhat explained within that world for the audience to feel any satisfaction. As it is, it feels like the writer ran out of time and ideas and just wrapped up the story in one fell swoop. And everyone lived happily ever after. It comes across as disingenuous. It makes out as if there is a simple solution to a complex problem.

Noone knows what will happen but they hope that somehow getting to the boundary will help somehow. And wouldn't you know, it solves EVERYTHING instantly, just by walking through it. It's a dumb, dumb ending.
The movie and the concepts I enjoyed. The ending was terrible and oversimplified the tricky subject matter the story was about. Plus, it was done in such a stupid way.

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[–] FilCap 10 years ago

That "memory wave" was pretty stupid, imo. It was just too fantasy-ish. I always thought that "boundary of memory" was something metaphorical, not an actual wall.

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[–] blaircam 10 years ago

One of the main reasons I came here was to say that that 'memory wave' thing made no sense to me.
It makes no sense that the system would be build with such a mechanism. It makes no sense that memories could come flooding back like that. It makes no sense that even though all the inhabitants had presumably been taking their medication which suppressed feelings that somehow that drug was magically overriden and they could 'feel' stuff.
The resolution just made no sense!
Also the film felt lop-sided. They spent ages on setting up the scene - then the resolution came too quickly and too easily.

"They who... give up... liberty to obtain... safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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[–] FilCap 10 years ago

I agree, it was completely out of place and rushed ending.

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[–] Hutchy_Movies 10 years ago

I think the same thing.
Yes, the movie was cliched, but I actually liked it. The only thing that made me turned away was the magic memory wave - it was very stupid. Also, according to someone that read the book, that memory wave wasn't present. Jonas memories just started being released the farther he went away from them. This was also stupid.

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[–] HeathJMac 10 years ago

The thing is that this is a story where people have magical powers, Jonas can "see beyond". Gabe grows up with other powers, and there are other characters who can do various things.

So it's a world of magic, the memory wave isn't in the book, but the principle of it is.

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[–] Hutchy_Movies 10 years ago

I see.
But the only magical feeling to this film was how the Receivers could let other Receivers see memories, until the memory wave scene.

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[–] HeathJMac 10 years ago

Yes I think it's a bit of a problem because it's not a big thing in the first book, but it is there, probably a bit more so in the book than the film. Whereas the other books get more and more into this sort of supernatural, magic world. There's a whole theme about nature also being linked to them in some way, stopping them or helping them..

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[–] Hutchy_Movies 10 years ago

I think I am going to read the books, because I have questions. The series intrigues me.

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[–] HeathJMac 10 years ago

They are lovely, but a bit frustrating. She has this spare way of writing that is beautiful and admirable, but I did find I wanted to know a lot more about everyone, the last book especially I didn't like the pacing of. But it does all play out, even if she uses supernatural and magic things to make it work. Maybe a bit too Deus ex Machina in the end.

Worth a read though, better than most other books for young people about, a lot better than those divergent books, or the hunger games etc.

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[–] shannsage82 10 years ago

Maybe the wall was all in Jonas' mind?

He was dehydrated, hungry, tired, cold, etc. which could cause anyone to hallucinate.

The only thing on the map was a hatched line stating the boundary and the rock boundary, not a magic wall.

In drafting plans many times a hatched line indicates something that isn't seen (underground, uninstalled, or behind a wall). Maybe the reason the line was hatched on the map was because there wasn't anything to see so when Jonas "saw" a boundary and wave it may have all been in his mind.

But that's a complete assumption.

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[–] thereminator101-169-777586 9 years ago

Its a crappy,not well thought out plot device.

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[–] oltjon82 9 years ago

In my perception the medication and the wave were two necessary ingredients to the mind control. Think of it as a pregnant mother getting an ultrasound. To use the ultrasound machine you have to use a lubricant. Apparently among other reasons, the lubricant is used to:

Contact
When air is present, a signal is not returned to the ultrasound machine to create an image. Ultrasound gel removes the air between the skin and the transducer so ultrasound waves can move freely between the body and the transducer.

Read more : http://www.ehow.com/facts_5189225_ultrasound-gel_.html

The wave must have glitched when one of the inhabitants left the predetermined zone. Nobody was expected to venture that far out of the community, and perhaps the glitch was embedded by the creators in case an evacuation was ever necessary.

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[–] en-is 9 years ago

This is exactly how I saw it, the medication and the invisible wave/dome (The Wall) are linked together.

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[–] falcn-ua 9 years ago

I can give you good explanation, although I believe nor book author, nor director really meant it that way.
Anyway.

We all were animals not so long ago, and changes that set us apart from monkeys were not revolutionary, but evolutionary.
The problem is that we still carry too much unnecessary and unwelcome luggage from our animal days - that is how evolution works.
At some point of history people decided to go with idea of Humanity 2.0
The idea was that technology, medication and strict set of rules will free humans from congenital defects that they have.
Some knowledge was considered dangerous, and was forbidden.

Long story short, creators needed some kind of safety measure in case the Humanity 2.0 will fail.
Something that will restore things to the state that they were before the switch, so the humanity can start over, fix the problem and reiterate with 2.1, or ditch the idea of non-evolutionary switch altogether.

The safety measure #1 was keeper of history. His function was to monitor the situation from the inside and make small fixes by providing council the the elders. In case of emergency he could give all the knowledge back to the community.

Safety measure #2 was perimeter.
If any member of community crosses the perimeter, it could only mean one of the following
-the community can't sustain itself, people are seeking help/resources outside
-there was a conflict, and part of the community was expelled
-member(s) of community willingly chose to disobey one of the main rules

Any of the above means that Humanity 2.0 failed.
In that case fail-safe mechanism gives knowledge back to the people to restore things back to how they were before and ensure survival of humans as a species

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[–] thetragicprincess 9 years ago

Wow falcn, that was an amazing explanation that coincides well with the story. Thank you for providing such an interesting perspective. Loved the software analogy!

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[–] hppg 9 years ago

I read the book 10+ years ago so I don't remember too well the ending of that, but I thought the physical memory wave was really quite silly....

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[–] Golf-Seven 9 years ago

Nothing more then a cheap and efficient way to conclude the story.

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