MovieChat Forums > The Last Kiss (2006) Discussion > No Sympathy for Kim at all. It's her own...

No Sympathy for Kim at all. It's her own damn fault she got hurt.

posted 16 years ago by Cherith-Cutestory
48 replies | jump to latest

I've read a lot of posts talking about "OH! Poor Kim, he just dumped her like garbage!" or "I feel so sorry for Kim, she was just a poor naive girl who fell for a guy and he just used her and left her" or "Zach Braff's character was such a jerk, he didn't tell her he was having a baby with Jenna" etc.......

Hmmm, lets see. Ok, she "didn't know he was having a baby with Jenna" But guess what? She knew he was with someone, someone for a very long time. So, that right there makes any "Sympathy for Kim" null and void, at least in my honest opinion. She involved herself in something she absolutely should not have. She should have been smart enough (And don't give me that "She was Naive" bull s*h*i*t! It wasn't her being a naive 22 year old,it was her being a selfish, horny college student who saw something she liked, even though it wasn't available, and decided to get it. With no regard for anyone but herself and her wants.) to say "You know what dude, you go and figure out whatever you need to figure out, but I'm not gonna get in the middle of this potentially sticky situation. I'm not gonna be 'That Girl.' And if or when you decide to breakup with your girlfriend, give me a call. But until then, peace the f*u*c*k out" Instead she says (As there about to seal the deal) "I Don't Care About Tomorrow" Showing she knows what she's doing is wrong but she doesn't give a s*h*i*t, she doesn't care who she's hurting, she's gettin hers. And then, in the office scene near the end, she says "You said you wanted to leave her" or something to that extent. Hey, guess what honey? Wanting to leave someone and actually leaving them are two VERY different things. "Wanting" to leave means their still with them, and even if they are having "issues" it's still none of your god damn business, and you should be smart enough to
A. As i said before, not involve yourself in something that could become a huge mess and end up hurting someone.

And B. Be kind enough and selfless enough to stop and think about the "Other" person in this situation instead of gratifying your own horny urges. Stop and think, "As a woman to another woman, how would i feel if this happened to me?"

[–] cetta-1 16 years ago

Way to go!!!

[–] moovie_grrl 16 years ago

It's impossible to disagree with that statement. You are absolutely right.

"BECAUSE IT'S WHAT JESUS WOULD FREAKING DO!"

[–] Cherith-Cutestory 16 years ago

Thank you :-)

I had to deal with a situation very similar to this (I was the "Other" person and the "Kim" in the situation knew about me, but didn't care) So i've had some time to form this opinion.

[–] himynameisamanda 16 years ago

You're completely right with that! I was thinking that the whole movie: she knows he's not single, yet she keeps hinting around that she wants a lot more than a friendship with him.

[–] AnnHolway360 16 years ago

Some women who responded to an old “Cosmo” roundup some years ago said it almost as well as you (the OP) did –

“The bottom line is, cheaters are losers whom you really wouldn’t want to date anyway. His actions say that he’s too weak to change a situation he’s unhappy with. Let him leave/divorce her if he’s so unhappy. Until then, I wouldn’t let him touch me.”

“We women have to watch out for each other – that means hands off one another’s bfs/husbands!”

I also read a great book called “What Men Want”, and this is what some guys had to say about cheating. Gentlemen quoted below, will one of you please marry me –if you’re still single, that is?

It s***s and is cruel. It is the most devastating breach of trust there is. – 38

There is never, ever an excuse for infidelity. If you wanna cheat on me, leave me first, then you can s*** anybody your dark little heart desires. I have never cheated on anyone and I never intend to. – 26

[–] Cremal 16 years ago

I do agree with this, Kim made her own bed, though I blame Zach's character more. Though Kim didn't really seem to give a damn about Jenna or her feelings which is awful, he was the one who was more mature and knew exactly why he was seeking out Kim even though he was in a "committed" relationship and it wasn't because it was dead in the water, it was because he was both a coward and completely freaked out.

I do see her as more naive in a teenage "but I really like this guy so why shouldn't I chase him fair and square" than scheming whore way and I do believe she had her heart sincerly broken when he came to the obvious conclusion in the end. That said I also agree with the OP and AnnHolway360's report that she had no one to blame but herself.

[–] ashley_davenport43560 16 years ago

I agree with you about Kim being naive in a teenage sort of way. She she said she didn't care about tomorrow but then when Michael tried to leave she stole his keys and his them in her pocket. Plus, she made him a mixed tape of the songs they dance to at the party. Oh, the worst was when she was blabbing on about how she put a song of herself playing tuba(?) on the tape. She sounded about 2 days out of high school.

I think a more mature person would have dealt with the situation differently. A more mature person wouldn't have been so selfish and would have realized what she was getting herself into. Plus, she didn't actually have a relationship with Michael. She had sex with a guy she wasn't dating who was cheating on his girlfriend. The only way that sort of situation can end is badly.

[–] ladypotter 16 years ago

Thank you for saying this. It really annoys me when people say that they pity Kim so much, but when you get down to it, Kim knew that Michael was in a relationship. He told her. But you know why? She still went after him and acted like a brat when he told her that stuff in the office scene. I mean, I really dislike Michael for what he did to poor Jenna, but Kim was just being selfish. I hate saying that people get what they deserve when it's in negative connotation, but she really, really should have watched herself. She was walking a fine line, and she crossed it callously. She should have been ashamed.

Want to get LOST?

www.lost.eu/6ea40

[–] Cherith-Cutestory 16 years ago

Ya know, i think this may be the first thread i've started where everyone who has responded has pretty much agreed with me :-) This truly is a very sensitive subject for me (as i mentioned before i have dealt with a very similar situation as this film) and it's nice to hear there are people out there who share the same mentality. Makes one feel not so alone.

Formerly- Hoppipolla

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] Cherith-Cutestory 16 years ago

Well, that may be. But i wasn't really talking about the "Male" perspective in the OP, i was referring to the fact that everyone seems to feel so sorry for Kim but in reality it was her own fault. As i said before she pursued, rather relentlessly at that, someone who she knew was not available and by pursing this person would hurt someone else very badly. She was extremely selfish and deserves no one's sympathy.

And now that you bring up the "spread the seed" argument, as Jules says in Pulp Fiction, allow me to retort. I am honestly so sick of that excuse. "Oh, i'm a guy. i can't help it" Ummm, yes you can. You just don't, or won't. Using the tired "caveman complex" excuse is just another way for you to get out of taking responsibility for your own damn selves. I understand where the argument comes from, but guess what honey, we aren't in prehistoric "gotta-mate-with-everything-i-see-so-we-can-keep-the-human-race-going" times, we are in 2008, where over population is a little bit of a problem. It's time to grow the f*u*c*k up! And honestly the fact that when you use that excuse, you're pretty much admitting that you have no self control and you can't keep it in you pants long enough so you don't ruin someone's life is pretty pathetic, in my opinion. And also, how bout we stop using the "Oh, your a women. you wouldn't understand" I understand perfectly well, you're immature little children who don't know how to admit wrong doing with out some sort of excuse as to why you did it i.e "Sorry, it's in my DNA" Hmmm, ok so how bout since you're staying in that prehistoric mindset, why don't you stop using cars? Or cell phones? or computers? or Ipods? etc? Sorry but i refuse to believe that we have come so far as a race with technology and science but you, as men, can't control something pretty basic. As has been said before, think with the head on top of your neck, not the one in you pants.

Formerly- Hoppipolla

[–] luvleighdg 16 years ago

Cherith, you rock. Solid arguments, logical points, and a fantastic screen name to boot (huge A.D. fan!).

Preach on, sister.

[–] Cherith-Cutestory 16 years ago

HEY BROTHER!! or sister :-) AD Rocks My Socks! I was Rita for halloween! Here are some pics!

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p7/katiematie844/Picture119-1.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p7/katiematie844/Picture120.jpg

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p7/katiematie844/Picture121.jpg

Formerly- Hoppipolla

[–] luvleighdg 16 years ago

LOL!! Those pics are fantastic! Great idea for a costume. :o)

One Halloween I wanted to go as Maeby in her banana stand outfit, but couldn't pull it together in time. It would've been hilarious, and even if only one or two people got it it would have been well worth it.

Nicely done!!

[–] uigbigstar 16 years ago

As a man, I believe the women don't want to see through a man's mind completely and I'm not totally sorted the reasons out. I believe, a man thinks of himself as a king living in his own world. He wants to feel like a king in this dishonesty and selfishness driven world. Maybe he would do so if the time or circumstances were different too, but I wouldn't know as I live at this moment.

As a king of his own, he would want anything an ape wants, the only difference is if he's clever enough, he would have a logical system that will keep his mind healthy and happy. In time he would construct it with his wisdom and experiences. However it would never take him away from his instictive thoughts, he will always look out for attractive females and things that would make him feel like a king again. Because when things get in a routine, when he slows down and understands that surprises will end with a serious relationship, as he already learned and saw from his parents, tv or another data stuck in his sub-consciousness and consciousness, he would want to get out. So he would try a way out as he sees the way he's on is not the real thing he always wanted. For me the one whom I can be 100% honest, and whom I wouldn't need just speaking for communication. But in this lie driven psychological traumatic world it's a little bit hard.

For what I know, if anyone finds a partner, for whom they can be honest to and can live with that honesty together, this someone would have a successful start to a relationship. Otherwise there will always be psychological scars and their consequences that will ruin your minds health.

As for the movie, I believe whether you are in relationship or anything else there's always a possibility that some another person would make you think that or make you feel that he/she is closer to what you've always wanted. Kim just saw a guy, liked him first from his appearance and posture, then liked the other parts too. Then tried to have him, nobody would want to think back and regret not trying, it could be the one for her. The baby wouldn't change her mind either, it just gave her a chance to save her pride. In life anything is possible, disregarding instincts without even analyzing them, makes silly things to your brain, and in time these silly things don't make you happier. As U2 says, "you got to get yourself together, u got stuck in a moment, and can't get out of it".

[–] 16 years ago

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[–] squeeeee 16 years ago

I guess I'll be the first to respectfully disagree. A couple's relationship is none of the Other Person's business, but because of that she's incapable of involving herself, even if she throws herself at the guy, its entirely the fault of the guy with a girlfriend if he takes her up on it, he involved her. The only person who can cheat on you is the person you're dating, the person they cheat on you with owes you nothing. I find the concept of men being loyal to each other in some bros before ho's ideal distasteful, and I don't like it any more to think that women should have some code honoring each other first and foremost even if they don't know each other, before the men in their lives they have actual connections to.

I've been the Jenna myself a few times, but much as I hate men sometimes, they aren't objects you can steal back and forth, they are fully responsible for their actions so I don't blame the girls they did *beep* with. It doesn't make men more faithful if the only reason they aren't cheating is because they don't get the opportunity because other women stop giving them the time of day. If it happens its because the guy is a cheatng whore, not the girl. She's not in a relationship with anyone, so she can't hurt anyone. The Kim character illustrated this point quite well.

So I do pity her. She laid the deal out before messing around with him. She said if you mess around with me, its because you don't like your gf anymore. He agreed to those terms by continuing forward and sealing the deal. But he didn't mean it, so he did lie to her and used her.

[–] Cherith-Cutestory 16 years ago

Well, first let me say thank you for your response, i thought it was kind of funny how everyone was agreeing with me :-) Now if i may also say, with all do respect, i am glad i don't have the same mindset that you have. I have been hurt soooooo many times by women. Ever since i was very young, i guess i was always an easy target for girls wrath. But, and i know this for a fact because i know myself pretty well, no matter how much i'm hurt by women i would never EVER sleep with a guy, or relentlessly pursue a guy who i KNEW was in a relationship. I know how absolutely horrible it feels, so why would i put someone else through it?

Now, i'm not gonna sit here and condemn the girls who truly had no idea that the guy had a girlfriend, how can you blame them? But when the girl DOES know he has a girlfriend and she does it anyway? I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for that kind of behavior, PERIOD! She should be the bigger person and say "Ok, screw this, i'm not gonna get in the middle of this" not say, as i feel you might think "Oh well! I don't know the girl! It's none of my business and he obviously wants to do me, so who cares! I'm gonna have fun and be selfish"

Formerly- Hoppipolla

[–] lt9946 16 years ago

I would also respectfully tend to kinda agree with sqeee. I don't think Kim's situation is so cut and dry as to having No sympathy or some. I have been in Kim's spot and messed around with a guy I didn't know had a gf and later met that said gf and was so pissed off that he made me that other girl. I did know that they used to date but I saw him a year later and he come onto me and I just assumed he wouldn't do that if he was still dating someone(I was in high school and always thought the best of people). But because of that I won't touch anyone in a relationship no matter what because I hated being that other girl. And even though I don't believe in cheating there are some instances when I have actually wanted some of my friends to cheat. I've had one of my best guy friends in a very abusive relationship with a girl (mentally and sometimes physically) and so many times I just wanted some nice girl to win him over. And I know if one of my girl friends was in an abusive relationship with a guy I would want her to cheat and get the heck outta that relationship.

That being said I think sometimes people make it out as women should never betray women or men just wanting to spread their seed is kinda crap. So many times I'm hanging out with only my guy friends and just to hear them talk about how all girls are alike I just laugh in my head only to go out with my girl friends and hear them say the same things about men. Women nowadays are just as likely to cheat in a relationship as a man but society has typically made it "acceptable" for men to cheat over women because of the whole spreading seed concept. Cheating is not cut and dry, I don't think someone should go for someone else in a relationship and it's the nice thing to stay away but technically they don't owe you anything. They can be an ahole if they choose and if my bf cheated on me I wouldn't give much crap to the girl he was with but just how he betrayed my trust.

[–] Cherith-Cutestory 16 years ago

Ok, so first of all as i said before I don't blame a girl who didn't know the guy had a girlfriend. How can you blame them if they truly didn't know? SO in that sense yes, i agree. But in response to you saying you wanted your friend to "Cheat so they could get out of a bad relationship" No disrespect, but are you joking? The way to get out of a bad relationship is to.........wait for it............ TELL THE ABUSIVE PERSON TO F*U*C*K OFF AND GET OUT OF YOUR LIFE!!! How does someone cheating to get out of an abusive relationship make any sense? What, to get back at them? That's called lowering yourself to their level. If you stand up for yourself and are able to leave a bad relationship, people will applaud you for it. If you go so low as to cheat on them to get out of it, people will look down on you (and you'll probably end up looking down on yourself)because you're no better than the person you cheated on. And saying that "I just wanted some nice girl to win him over" is like saying "I just wanted Prince(or in that case Princess) charming to come a sweep him off his feet" But unfortunately this isn't Fairy Land where things are that simple. If he wanted to get out of that relationship, he should have taken the responsibility and stood up for himself and left. We can't just hope that our true loves will find us and take us off into the sunset. We have to take our destiny's into our own hands and be strong enough to do what's right for us, even if it's hard.

Bottom line, it's not acceptable for ANYONE TO CHEAT. Not to get back at someone, not to get out of a relationship(honestly that is the biggest cop out ever. Are you really that spineless that you can't just end a relationship? You have to cheat? REALLY!?)Not to "spread the seed" And not for someone, men an women alike, to sleep with someone they know is in a relationship. You may think you don't owe the other person anything (which is a truly messed up, selfish way of thinking) But hopefully you value yourself enough to not f*u*c*k up your karma like that. If you do something that you KNOW has a good chance of hurting someone else by doing it, it WILL come back to bite you in the ass. In one way or another

And on a final note for the women(and men. don't think this doesn't apply to you as well) who DO know that the guy(or girl) they are sleeping with or are about to sleep with has a girlfriend(or bf) let me ask you this........Why them? Why does it HAVE to be them? Why can't you find someone who is unattached? I don't understand this mindset of "Well, i may know about them, but i don't KNOW them. Soooooo I don't owe them anything" and it's even worse when you actually DO know them personally. There are sooo many single people in the world! So, to ask again, WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE SOMEONE WHO IS NOT SINGLE? Why can't you just walk away and find someone who IS single?

Formerly- Hoppipolla

[–] OHJoel 16 years ago

cherith,
hopefully you saved as much resentment for your man as you did the "Kim" character, because isn't he the one who's really at fault as far as your concerned?
granted, i agree that its crap for a girl to knowingly do that, but she's not the one in a committed relationship...that responsibility to do the right thing ultimately fell on the person in said relationship
this movie was good

[–] squeeeee 16 years ago

As far as a single person is concerned, everyone is single, because they themselves aren't attached and and its the person they date's business if they're attached to someone else or not. Knowing they have a bf or gf really doesn't make a difference. "Well, i may know about them, but i don't KNOW them. Soooooo I don't owe them anything"

Thats not it. Its not because you don't owe them decency, its because you have no ability to hurt them whatsoever. This is why I said people aren't objects you can steal or leave alone at will. For kim to ruin her karma and hurt someone through her actions, she would have to, say, decide to steal someone's bf and do it. But she doesn't have the power to do that. Kim didn't steal zach braff because only zach braff has the power to make himself cheat or not, its his decision if he does. you can't really steal somebody short of physically overpowering them against their will. If kim did that, then yes you'd have a point that she's ruining her karma by acting to hurt zach braff's gf. If i felt men were incapable of controlling themselves, i'd be a lot less angry at them because i could brush it off as male inferiority and helplessness, a-la the "its in my DNA" argument. But i know its not really the case. They're just pigs. Equal in free will and ability to be faithful and just choosing to act like pigs.

A note to the "its in my DNA" guys: If you want to be treated like dogs who can't help their nature, well ok. But just so you know, I send dogs to obedience school to learn to be civilised. And if it doesn't sink in, I rehome them. I do not resign myself to their nature and let them pee all over my carpet. So even if i accept your nature I'll still break up with you for cheating.

[–] SinisterGrin 16 years ago

That last paragraph is incredible. I'm still giggling.

[–] ashley_davenport43560 16 years ago

I normally do hate when only the other woman (or girl) is blamed because the husband or the boyfriend is the one that is in the relationship with you and is the one who owes you their loyalty. In this case though I feel slightly differently. With most guys who cheat it doesn't matter who they cheat with. They are going to do it now matter what. In this case though i think Kim deserves more blame because she sought Michael out. I'm not sure that he would have cheated if he hadn't been pursued by Kim. Who knows. Maybe another girl would have come along and he would have done the same thing. I just think that at that monet in his life he was more vulnerable to being a cheater and Kim knew that. I'm not excusing Michael's behavior because I think cheaters are terrible. I'm just saying that she went after a guy who wasn't available while he was going through a rough patch in his life.

[–] ashley_davenport43560 16 years ago

He didn't lie to her or use her. She chose to believe what she wanted and to only think of herself. She knew he had a girlfriend and she didn't care. She should of known that if he was willing to cheat on his current girlfriend then he would probably end up treating her like crap too. Kim was too immature and selfish to think of any of that. She just saw what she wanted and went after it.

[–] astone2-1 16 years ago

Ya I definitely don't feel sorry for Kim. She definitely expected waaaay too much from a guy who had a girlfriend. However, I do understand why she pursued him. She found him attractive and he had an enormous delay when she asked if he had a girlfriend. Her flirting with him was fairly innocent although she obviously ended up going much further than just talking. But relationships end and she probably assumed that he was looking for a reason to leave his girlfriend who he obviously wasn't happy with (at least that's how he made it seem to Kim).

Up until she started kissing him I saw where she was coming from. But once she started expecting him to leave his girlfriend for her after a single night at a party and crossed the line between hopeful flirtation and physical contact, I stopped feeling bad.

Granted her feelings were hurt and unfortunately I've been in her shoes before, but she expected too much from a guy with a girlfriend who she just met. Zach Braff was an *beep* for lying to her but honestly...it was a one night stand. She got pretty clingy. When she showed up at his work I just sighed.

"This will not be over quickly. You will not enjoy this."

[–] pyahnitsa 16 years ago

I agree! She knew right from the beginning that he was with someone. She wasn't naive at all. She should have stopped going after him once she found out he was with someone instead of chasing after him the way that she did.

I mean, I know if that had happened there wouldn't have been a movie, but if it happened in real life...I would definitely not feel sorry for her at all. She behaved like a darn homewrecker

[–] Squishington2005 16 years ago

Very well put.
"If he truly loved her he'd let her hit the pavement."-The Big Bang Theory

[–] iluvclana 15 years ago

completely agree with you! i hated kim.

[–] shanem09 15 years ago

It was way more Zach(forgot his characters name) fault then hers. Though she should have backed off once he said he had a girlfriend, but she was still young and it seems didn't fully understand love and relationships. I bet if he had lift his girlfriend her Kim she would have had him for a few months maybe even years if she was lucky before she got bored of him, she's still a party girl who is not ready for something like that, as much as she wants it, she wants her other life more. So yes I don't feel bad for her, though I still don't blame her as much as I would be blaming Zach, yes she took advantage of his crisis, but he really should have had the self control to stop himself before it got to far.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] InUrFridge 15 years ago

I've read a lot of posts talking about "OH! Poor Kim, he just dumped her like garbage!" or "I feel so sorry for Kim, she was just a poor naive girl who fell for a guy and he just used her and left her" or "Zach Braff's character was such a jerk, he didn't tell her he was having a baby with Jenna" etc.......

Hmmm, lets see. Ok, she "didn't know he was having a baby with Jenna" But guess what? She knew he was with someone, someone for a very long time. So, that right there makes any "Sympathy for Kim" null and void, at least in my honest opinion. She involved herself in something she absolutely should not have. She should have been smart enough (And don't give me that "She was Naive" bull s*h*i*t! It wasn't her being a naive 22 year old,it was her being a selfish, horny college student who saw something she liked, even though it wasn't available, and decided to get it. With no regard for anyone but herself and her wants.) to say "You know what dude, you go and figure out whatever you need to figure out, but I'm not gonna get in the middle of this potentially sticky situation. I'm not gonna be 'That Girl.' And if or when you decide to breakup with your girlfriend, give me a call. But until then, peace the f*u*c*k out" Instead she says (As there about to seal the deal) "I Don't Care About Tomorrow" Showing she knows what she's doing is wrong but she doesn't give a s*h*i*t, she doesn't care who she's hurting, she's gettin hers. And then, in the office scene near the end, she says "You said you wanted to leave her" or something to that extent. Hey, guess what honey? Wanting to leave someone and actually leaving them are two VERY different things. "Wanting" to leave means their still with them, and even if they are having "issues" it's still none of your god damn business, and you should be smart enough to
A. As i said before, not involve yourself in something that could become a huge mess and end up hurting someone.

And B. Be kind enough and selfless enough to stop and think about the "Other" person in this situation instead of gratifying your own horny urges. Stop and think, "As a woman to another woman, how would i feel if this happened to me?"

She's hot though isn't she?

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[–] GruesomeTwosome 15 years ago

KaroParisian makes himself out to be a harmless old codger...but inside...inside...

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[–] InUrFridge 15 years ago

I'm pretty sure there are no 'live administrators' you know.

Its my experience that something just gets deleted as soon as someone reports it, even if the content was completely harmless.

[–] 15 years ago

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