MovieChat Forums > Môsô dairinin (2005) Discussion > the shonen bat entity and its implicatio...

the shonen bat entity and its implications (spoilers)

posted 15 years ago by paradoxone
12 replies | jump to latest

I really love this series. It's really deep and clever.
Up to the point when we are confronted with the explaination for the cataclysm at the end. I just ask myself: how could an ordinary girl have such powers, when she appearently has none. Granted, we don't get a lot of background on her family, i.e. if there were psychics or demon summoners or did she come from a special bloodline or anything. You see what I'm getting at?

How could something like shonen bat manifest itself in the first place?
An entity born from a lie simply doesn't cut it, especially when thinking of the proportions this blows into at the end.

Sure, Maromi, the character based on the dead dog, becomes an international obsession, thus feeding the lie, still...

I love Satoshin Kon's work but this time around he should have let the series ended a little less in your face. I mean, the whole time you're never quite sure what's real and what's an illusion, and that's a good thing! That is what I personally love about this show and Kon's style in general!

But I must say, I was a little disappointed when the black mass cataclysm turned out to really have happened.

Then again, all of this could have been the delusion of an old man who thought to have been a detective who fought against the manifestation of a supernatural entity that was born from a lie of a little girl ;)

P.s. doesn't the end remind a little of Akira?
The ending has the same apocalyptic feel to it.
The black mass reminded me of outa control Tetsuo at the end.
Maromi reminded me of the toy animal scene.
But maybe that's just me ;)

____________________________

The fear of kakao tends to create fear for the chocolate < > .. < >

[–] infinajt 15 years ago

I think it's one of the best parts of Paranoia Agent that we really don't ever get to know what caused the thing (or, as you said, if it ever even happened). I like to think that it was just the general madness and malice of the world piling up and finding a way to manifest itself through the deep trauma of the girl. Shonen bat had found the way to harness all the girl's creative power and turn it into... well, destructive power.

I do agree that making the black goo not-so-ambiguous was a bit of a letdown, but somehow I just think that it was necessary: how such little things in all of us grow and grow and grow to epic sizes and end up almost devouring the entire world.

But it would have been a bit too 'in your face' too if there was some special reason for all that to happen (like there wasn't any reason why we actually get to see Chiyoko's life through her movies in Millennium Actress). And Paprika made a bit too much sense with the "magic machine", imo, eventhough it was well thought out anyway.

[–] adamgnome 15 years ago

The disaster Tokyo was recovering from was probably the hurricane that was in episode 6 or 7.

[–] junoluver 15 years ago

I really enjoyed the ending, I think the "black goo" Slugger is really symbolic of how something small can develop into something larger, more ominous, and then erupt into something completely chaotic and incapable of being controlled.

Kon's work is so symbolic that it's hard to pin a strong background on any character in this series, there are always so many possibilities.

I actually saw Akira after seeing Paranoia Agent, and I agree, they are a bit similar, also in the sense of something growing so out of control. The toy animal scene is one of my favorite scenes in animation too.

[–] Mr_Sideburns 15 years ago

I found myself not that disappointed when the black mass really seemed to have happened.

It could definitely have been the hurricane and whatnot, but.. hm.. My thoughts on this might be a little controversial or sketchy at best, but hear me out for a second.

I think it was supposed to be reminiscent of the atomic bomb strikes in Japan during WWII. They repeatedly did not accept the Potsdam terms or admit any sort of surrender – this sacrifice of the Japanese into a surreal state of absolute protection and invulnerability from consequence certainly seems to be similar to the themes that lie throughout Paranoia Agent. This could explain writer's intent behind the detective's line in the final episode that it was, "... just like after the war," not to mention the opening theme's liberal use of the mushroom cloud.

Maybe the theme of repetition and cycles is a commentary on the fact that this can happen to any country or peoples, and that the main downfall of mankind in general is the fact that we can deceive ourselves so much into believing that things will be okay without us having the responsibility of making it so?

I'd like to hear other's thoughts on what this might have meant to them! And like I said, I know mine can seem controversial or maybe even sketchy, but I would love to hear how one might think them to be inconsistent with the themes and symbols within Paranoia Agent.

[–] paradoxone 15 years ago

Intersting view. Not at all sketchy, on the contrary, you either hit the nail on the head, or you're giving Satoshi Kon more credit than he deserves, i.e. reading more into the black mass than the creator originally intended.
Which doesn't mean that the climax couldn't be interpreted that way.

Either way this happens all the time, someone creates something without having anything too drastic in mind and later on people find all kind of meanings that weren't put there on purpose.

Sometimes the creator subconciously creates something with a deeper meaning than what he conciously intended and is thought to be a genious when in reality it was mere "coincidence".

But sometimes concious thinking can only get you so far and the rest is filled in by a conciousness of a higher order ;)

But I think we can all agree that the shock ripples of the cloud linger on in the Japanese pop culture and are still influencing it even if on the surface it's not intentional. Take Godzilla as a classic example as a means of processing the desaster more or less subconciously, whereas Otomo worked the bomb in very purposefully in Akira.
____________________________

The fear of kakao tends to create fear for the chocolate < > .. < >

[–] Mr_Sideburns 15 years ago

Thanks for the kind words, paradoxone!

I know exactly what you're speaking of, even some of our own minor actions in relations to other people can sometimes be heavily over analyzed and end up causing speculation that doesn't necessarily suit the intentions.

Thanks for the input :D

[–] thecalhouns 15 years ago

well I have two simple theories

the first is that (as stated in my other thead http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433722/board/thread/142172383) in the world of Paranoia Agent strong enough belief in something makes it real

the second is that the "mysterious old man" is somehow the "cause" of all the "weirdness", that there's something supernatural about him that causes Lil Sligger and Maromi to become real and whatever he has he "passes on" to Maniwa at the end hence why the story essentially starts over

back in 98 I did a titty comedy for Skinemax. Sex Camp, ya remember it?

[–] infinajt 15 years ago

Kon is known to be a great mapper of the "national mind of Japan", WW2 point seems pretty valid. Nice catch there.

I urge everyone to see Millennium Actress which is just as deep and important as this. Or well, any of his works, really, maybe excluding Tokyo Godfathers (but it's supposed to be like that, anyway). The man can't just be THAT lucky, to constantly stumble on great ideas.

[–] paradoxone 15 years ago

While Tokyo Godfather may not be as deep as his other works you have to admit that it's still an exceptionally good movie. There are a lot of subtleties in it albeit not as multilayered as in the others. In that one he "played it safe".

But there are. For example the symbolic beat 'em up lifebar made of lit windows that are shut off one by one as Gin gets beat up by a couple of school punks. Or how he is confronted with different versions of himself to symbolize what turn his life could have taken or will take. Which is the main theme of the movie: choices.

____________________________

The fear of kakao tends to create fear for the chocolate < > .. < >

[–] infinajt 15 years ago

Yea, I wasn't calling it bad. :) It's extraordinary, like everything Kon has made, better than Perfect Blue in my opinion. I wouldn't even say that he "played it safe", rather that he concentrated in something very different than the rest of his stuff.

I'd say (simplifying a bit) that everything else he has made has been INSIDE the human mind, what pulls our strings from WITHIN, while TG was more about the outer forces that shape our lives. I think that is why it felt more magical ("destiny protecting the lost and the innocent on Christmas") but at the same time not as personal for me. But remarkable anyway, and probably just what he had in mind.

[–] paradoxone 15 years ago

Ah yes, so true. Now I see your point more clearly.
____________________________

The fear of kakao tends to create fear for the chocolate < > .. < >

[–] kuampapwder 9 years ago

This might have been mentioned already, haven't read the whole thread.
It is probable the black blob disaster is a resulting display of the city/nationwide mass delusion caused by Maromi/Shonen Bat.
The short clips of different denizens clamouring desperately to Maromi immediately before the catastrophe, which in turn (temporarily) destroys the curse of Maromi/Shonen Bat. At this point in the series the notion of a double faced trickster entity that embodies both a phantom menace and a phantom saviour goes from individual to mass delusion touching on themes regarding guilt and repressed feelings about Japans involvement in WWII. The mushroom cloud behind Chief Ikari during the opening sequence also ominously suggests something along the lines of WWII.