MovieChat Forums > Flannel Pajamas (2006) Discussion > Writer/Director didn't make the movie he...

Writer/Director didn't make the movie he thought he...


made. At least comparing what the director says and what ends up on the screen.

SPOILERS!

Despite playing fairly long for a romance, I thought this had some holes, so I watched the deleted scenes, 'the making of' documentary, and some of the commentary (I intend to watch it all).

For me, the religious angle was extremely inconsistent. Nicole mentions to the mother so early on that her new boyfriend (actually even before he's really her boyfriend) is Jewish, signaling that this might be a major issue; but nothing comes of it for some time. Then, much later in the film, we get Elizabeth's outburst at the hospital. Unfortunately, aside from the content itself, which is reprehensible; it is hard to take it seriously given that we know that she is losing her mind (Alzheimers). Otherwise, religion doesn't really play a role in the evolution and devolution of their relationship (the deleted church scene might have helped). The birth control issue is medical and timing, and there is no argument over the Christmas tree. By the time the small scene between the sisters about praying before bed takes place, the relationship seems all but dead.

We also hear something about Nicole's having thyroid cancer in the deleted scenes. Again, not referenced in the actual cut of the movie. Did Stuart support her through that as well before she dumped him?

I figured the catering business fizzled away; but we don't know this (and more importantly, we don't learn she had no real enthusiasm for it anyway and it was another one of her passing fancies) unless we watch the deleted scenes.

I think the director was so obsessed with sex and full-frontal nudity he failed to worry about the story and character development (although he does treat the male and female leads equally for a change); and he dumped important plot scenes and kept overly-languorous sex scenes. At some point, they don't advance the story. They have lust and maybe love for each other. Okay, we get it. Also, we have Stuart's brother's story line. Perhaps this is meant to balance against Nicole's family; but I don't see how this informs us about Stuart of their relationship (perhaps a contrast to Stuart's conventionality?)

I wish more time had been spent giving this a New York flavor, which seemed lacking but which comes through more with the deleted scenes. Surprisingly, some have said this had a lot of NYC flavor. Having been born there and lived there most of my life, I just don't see this. Yes we get the apartment interiors and views; but the deleted church scene and Toys 'R Us scene might have contrasted better with the Montana scenes. More exteriors might also have helped with informing viewers about the passage of time, which was a problem for me.

I also felt that the way the relationship fluctuated was very uneven. I know that to achieve realism, there isn't a steady decline; but here we go from a massive disagreement over the pregnancy, to tentative reconciliation, shopping for Christmas trees, holding hands (which bizarrely occurs while Nicole says they never hold hands anymore), to a fairly abrupt end. Again, the second (deleted) Montana Christmas scene might have helped here. If indeed the original cut was three hours, I think the pacing would have seemed more consistent.

I also wasn't thrilled with the ending. It seems these days that ambiguity stands in for depth of meaning.

Edit: I should also add that, given the writer/director's stated goal of balancing the sympathies of the audience; I think he fails. Perhaps because I'm a man, I don't see their respective failings as having equal weight. Yes, he's probably too regimented and perhaps even dictatorial: he tries to shut Tess out of Nic's life (although as someone noted, she is poisonous and probably deliberately obstructive in Nic's life), financially prudent (then flamboyant), wants to wait to have children although two years is pretty normal for a couple like that, resists having the dog for reasonable if disputable reasons; yet otherwise he acquiesces to almost her every whim. Remember, they AGREED early on to wait 2 years to have children. And it seems pretty clear to me, that her desire to have a child is just as much something to do to fill the hole in her life she can't seem to fill with work, friends, love, a dog, etc.; as her many previous jobs, failed catering business, early failed marriage, etc. amply prove.

I also want to add (as others seem to have) that I lived a very similar story. I was part of a similarly mixed, long-term relationship with some scenes almost verbatim. My girlfriend wasn't Catholic; but British-Canadian and High Anglican. I'm Jewish and from New York. Her family, while being very nice and polite, also treated me as if I were an alien, with questions and situations right out of this movie and 'Annie Hall.' I could certainly identify with this movie (although not the hospital scene). That didn't ring true at all, as I believe Stuart would have been firm and polite but cutting in his response. For someone who frequently travels to places like Tulsa for business, it would not be the first time he's confronted similar if less personal mistreatment. Also, Nicole's refusal to use birth control was a function of medical issues and not religion (at least as presented in the movie).

All of this said, I'm very glad I saw the movie. It is hard to criticize something that someone has put so much of himself into, and who obviously worked so hard on with such admirable goals; and let's be honest, I haven't made a film! It was immensely thought-provoking and ultimately entertaining. The fact that opinions on which character is mostly at fault, says something was accomplished. I'm just frustrated that there was probably a masterpiece in here somewhere, much of which probably ended up on the cutting room floor. I think that, if as the director says he shot 30 hours of film, he needs to make a director's cut.

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Okay, I watched the entire movie through again, with the director's commentary.

SPOILERS

Being sensitized to the religious elements, I can see some of the author's point; but I still think this is a case of a creator filling in the blanks because he knows the subject intimately; and not realizing the rest of us might miss some of these elements.

I also think there are some significant lacunae in the storyline.

We are told that Nic is painfully shy and that Stuart's request for her to stand naked against the skyline bordered on abuse. That's hard to swallow when juxtaposed with the fact that in (a deleted scene) we find out that she tells Stuart on their first date that she likes anal sex! Plus, we see a painting of her posing in the nude (painted by her mother!?). To me, that scene seems more like exploration and experimentation than controlling abuse. The author also makes much of the fact that Stuart, in another scene, flicks a curtain shut. Well, naked 36 floors up with no buildings nearby might be very different than being naked in a short loft building with neighboring windows.

In the commentary, something is mentioned about whether Stuart actually gives the eulogy at his mother's funeral. Well, direct reference is made that he did in Jordan's toast at Stuart and Nic's wedding. I don't think the author meant the eulogy at Jordan's funeral either.

Divorce is another theme that I think gets a bit muddled here. Mention is made of Stuart's parents divorcing; but again we find out that Stuart's parents stayed together, although his father had an affair. Furthermore, there seems to be some disconnect between what Elizabeth did and what Nicole does. Elizabeth tells Stuart in the hospital scene that she won't do any further harm (like it matters at that point); but she won't help. She, and the rest of the family seem eager to have them divorce; but we know she didn't divorce HER husband, he left HER!

Finally, mention is made of Tess's being redeemed. I don't get this at all. In what sense or act is she redeemed?

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I watched this tonight and it was alright. Somewhere it's referenced that this movie is a throw back to Cassavettes. IT'S NOT! It was good, but it floated from scene to scene without any reference to continuity. It seemed like it was always Christmas. The world was bliss till they were married and suddenly everything shot downhill.

Jess did seem terrible, where Jordan was whacky but always sending positive energy. Nicole's family weren't crazy the way Stuart made them out to be. It seems this couple saw things the audience didn't. It would have been nice if the filmmaker would have shown us things instead of having the actors tell us.

At any point did we see Jordan smoke weed, get high or drunk? No, we're told it from Nicole as a reason to be mad. As you mentioned the anti-semitism, said once on the phone and then Mom's rant.

But, the thing that surprised me the most, was Nicole leaving Stuart. I've never rooted for the guy in a movie, they're always wrong. Yet, here I couldn't imagine what he did to have her walk out on him. I was hoping he'd dump her first. She was a flake throughout the movie.

He might not realize it, but he's better off.

It was a good movie, just needed more relationships interwoven.




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The edit worked for me. I don't miss any of the deleted scenes you mentioned.

I think it created a story that never quite connected with reality (continuity)?

BUT, BUT...to me that reflected the lack of reality in the relationship itself.

Fantasy crashes into deep psychological game playing.

I now pronounce you man and wife.

Maybe the director and editor wanted this effect...maybe its just me.

I liked it a lot.

PS I agree, he deserved better treatment than he got. I though he was a stand up guy (with imperfections to be sure).

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Maybe the egg doesn't fall from the tree (am I mixing metaphors). Oddly, maybe Elizabeth is right, or at least she drilled the racist ideas into her daughter's head, and thus their marriage was doomed, which it certainly seemed to be.

BTW, as I was watching the movie (actually almost at the very end), it occurred to me that the wife probably never truly loved the husband. I agree that this is something we almost never see in cinema. She said she loved him, and she might have thought she did, but either she didn't know what love was or her mother's judgmental, narrow-minded views were too much for the wife/daughter to overcome.

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Come on now! Aren't we women entitled to a little extended full frontal male nudity for a change? Gosh, female full frontal is practically obligatory in in every other film. Nearly all films have a gratuitous strip club scene now. The most refreshing thing about this labored, talky film was that there was a little treat for the ladies. A treat that pushed past the millisecond long glimpse of male genitalia, that we have gotten up to now, in the 5 or 10 other films that dare to show full frontal male nudity. Remember all the uproar and men complaining about Brad Pitt's backside (not even his frontside!) in Troy? God forbid we stop stroking there egos for one or two films, by showing men on screen that maybe better endowed than them. You know, the way we women are constantly bombarded with visuals of women on screen, that have better bodies than us?

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Really interesting points, PVarjak. I watched this movie last night and missed at least a part of the beginning -- and I never saw any nudity or sex so that must have occurred towards the beginning?

While I enjoyed the movie, the movie did drag and confuse especially the wife's trip to the hospital and the scene with the mother-in-law in the hospital, which I completely agree was totally bizarre given that a few scenes before we are led to believe that the mother-in-law is losing it.

Anyway, your comments are insightful and appreciated. I also agree the movie could have been better but given today's fare this was better than most and very few movies truly pull of a good ending. It's obviously the hardest part of a movie.

BTW, is the lead actor the brother-in-law from Weeds. If so, I think that's the only reason I stayed with it.

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Yes, Justin Kirk is the Andy, the brother-in-law to Nancy in Weeds.

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