MovieChat Forums > The Kingdom (2007) Discussion > End shootout was rather unbelievalbe... ...

End shootout was rather unbelievalbe... in dumb way.

posted 14 years ago by liven1812
17 replies | jump to latest

Bateman's character was obviously a nerd, so, no past intense weapons training. This is fine, he didn't use one. Garner's character, obvious nerd, years of medical training, no weapons can be strongly assumed. Cooper's character, bomb tech, likely engineering field nerd. Weapons training? Believable, as he is a bit older. He could have easily been in the Army, went to more intense school/training, then got into the FBI. Still, weapons use was likely 20 years ago. As in, actually trained to shoot, with handling experience. Foxx's character is young, team leader (implying he's been in the FBI a while), smells RIPE of Ivy League MBAish type schooling, rising through the ranks while mingling with journalists. Could have done some time in the Army, as his friend was a Kiowa pilot, but, a lot of weapons training? Likely not. Faris, Colonel, definitely good with a weapon, very believable. The only one of the four who was.

Yet, one soldier, and three nerds, manage to kill about 15 - 20 perps, most with elevated position, all with automatic weapons, all who handled the weapons probably as much, if not more, than any of the FBI members, and yet, didn't land any significant shots? The atmosphere of the gun battle was really good, it was just stupid. Like just about everything, it could have been fixed. Allow one of the other Suburbans to survive, and you have Faris, and about five other Saudi troops, ALONG with the FBI, that way you don't need to allow Jamie Foxx, with the stock folded no less, hitting guys at range while they can't.

I just don't like it when movie makers decide, at some point, "If we don't have the central characters heavily involved with the final shootout, nobody will like the movie." - I'd rather it be believable. They still could have been there, could have gotten some kill shots in, still gone in the apartment building.

A quick couple words. Military experience doesn't equate, at all, to weapons training. People can be direct commission, as experts are, and barely even shoot. And, I don't know how many of you have shot these types of weapons, but, it is... difficult to aim. You take an AR-15, point it straight at a target 25 yards away, pull the trigger, and the bullet goes somewhere else completely. That is semi-auto, at close range. Not full auto, at medium range. Without training, and feeling for these things, you miss... a whole heck of a lot.

[–] dudesweetdudesweet 14 years ago

the american made ultimak quad rails and aimpoint optics on anti-western terrorist's guns was kinda stupid too

[–] pepenet23 14 years ago

I liked the movie very much, but I at that final scene I’m like thinkin’ 60s TV series Combat, Germans ambushing Sgt. Saunders’ American patrol. In the end they only manage to wound one of the yanks, but finish off all the Jerrys, their machine guns and tank.
I gather audiences prefer heroes not dying.
Good shootin' Tex !

[–] super16g 14 years ago

I totally agree. I have no weapons training, but I have enough common sense to realize people with an elevated position have an advantage, and the FBI agents were completely surrounded AND they were being hit with RPG's and grenades. They shouldn't have listed five minutes in the fight, much less all of them survive. But yes, it was filmed very well.

[–] brimst0ne13 13 years ago

maybe they used the stereotype that all terrorists shoot thier ak's from the hip? lol. the nerds all played Call of Duty. thats why they owned em all.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] spookyrat1 11 years ago

" But yes, it was filmed very well."

The OP is probably very correct in all the points he made.

But no matter how many times I see this segment, I still find myself sitting on the edge of my seat.

[–] LucasNorth 11 years ago

They're FBI agents. They have all been trained in weapons, despite their fields, and have to maintain qualifications to be able to go out in the field. And they're fighting untrained men and teenagers that are using 30 year old improperly maintained weapons. That fire fight is exactly how it would happen.

[–] victorherm54 11 years ago

LucasNorth: "They're FBI agents. They have all been trained in weapons, despite their fields, and have to maintain qualifications to be able to go out in the field. And they're fighting untrained men and teenagers that are using 30 year old improperly maintained weapons. That fire fight is exactly how it would happen. "

Yeah right, idiot.

I also love how that entire complex of apartments was just completely populated by people wielding RPGs and machine guns. That was very realistic. (sarcasm)

[–] LucasNorth 11 years ago

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/training/firearms

And there's literally thousands of articles online about the state of the enemy combatants during the war. But you clearly don't watch the news...

[–] carthur27 11 years ago

"They're FBI agents. They have all been trained in weapons, despite their fields, and have to maintain qualifications to be able to go out in the field."

You have the typical FBI special agent confused with the FBI's SWAT units. For instance, the former does not "maintain qualifications" with MP5 submachine guns or M4 carbines. In particular, becoming proficient with a submachine gun takes a great deal of practice.

As far as the movie goes, everything about that scene is unrealistic starting with smashing out part of the front windshield to grab the live grenade on the hood and throwing it out of harm's way. The people you describe as "untrained men and teenagers" didn't have any problems firing their RPGs, they just kept conveniently missing their target by 15 feet. You're arguing this scene is realistic because of some personal bias not because of facts.

[–] Mahnke2 8 years ago

All good points, here is what I have to add:

1) It's a movie, if you made it all the way to the fire fight then you have gotten past a lot of things that were not realistic.

2) FBI training does give them better training than who they faced. If they were sent into a environment like that they would have gotten extra training. Weapons training doesn't mean they would use every weapon so that isn't very realistic, but again it's a movie.

3) On the ground in vehicles vs ambush from the roof top? My 12 year old with his class mates could have taken out that group...lol, RPGs and AK-47s although old as someone mentioned are not used because they are the best weapons available. They are cheap and easy to use.

Overall it was an ok movie, I wouldn't watch it more than one time but it was different movie.

[–] laza-6 8 years ago

I enjoyed the movie but yes as someone else said it could have done without the TV show combat final battle. It was like watching Arnie in his heyday in Commando.

Whether the FBI were well weapons trained or not isn't the point .
History has plenty of well trained and also battle experienced soldiers who still end up dead when they are surrounded by numerical superior enemy with height advantage

[–] CaZSuede 11 years ago

While I can't determine whether the firefight was realistic or not (it was exciting though and cinematic), FBI agents are all given extensive weapons training, whether they are analysts or front line agents, nerds or super-agents.

You cannot go through training without having fired and handled weapons in the FBI.

[–] maximusveritas 10 years ago

Yeah, I actually switched the movie off at that point. I know it's a normal part of stupid action movies, but this was supposed to be a bit better than that. This could have been an interesting movie in the hands of someone more intelligent and nuanced, but it turned out to be a terrible forgettable movie.

[–] clmryan47 10 years ago

Have you ever seen an 80s action film? This film was pretty unrealistic but it was still quite intelligent compared to some action films.

[–] BobCH88 10 years ago

Not to mention the hit that their SUV took out on the freeway. They all,(with the exception of Bateman) crawl out without a scrath. What?? That car took a mighty tumble. I would expect at the very least, someone was knocked unconscious.