MovieChat Forums > The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear (2004) Discussion > Neoconservatism just as evil as radical ...

Neoconservatism just as evil as radical Islam

posted 11 years ago by Katz5
32 replies | jump to latest

Understanding that lies and fabrications are just that - lies and fabrications -to push for unnecessary wars (the Neocon method) is just as evil as hijacking planes and crashing them until buildings.

I always knew that people like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle were war criminals and deserved swift justice in the World Court, and groups like PNAC were criminal underground organizations that should be cast out as fascist groups and declared illegal to operate in the U.S.

If this documentary doesn't make you angry then you're the apathetic, distracted, vain and self-absorbed person that both the radical Islamics and American Neocons claim most Americans are (and thus deserve to live in a constant state of fear).

What the Neocons tried to do to Bill Clinton - they're doing it all over again with Obama. Who do you think is behind the "birther," "Kenyan," "Benghazi cover up" movement? Hint--it ain't the Tea Party.

Guns! Guns! Guns! Tigers play tonight...never miss a game!

[–] bruce-129 9 years ago

>> Neoconservatism just as evil as radical Islam

I am not a believer in the Neocons really, but NO, no it's not, not even in the same neighborhood.

1) UnWatchable 2)Watchable,ButBad 3)Decent,SeeOnce 4)Good,Repeat&Recommend 5)Great,Classic

[–] LaLlama 7 years ago

Both groups believe in imposing their views by military force. Tell me how they're not the same again.

[–] bruce-129 7 years ago

Parents impose their will on their children too ... does that mean they are the same as neocons or radical Islamists?
Think before you blurt.

[–] LaLlama 7 years ago

Parents impose their will on their children too

This comparison is beyond retarded.

[–] bruce-129 7 years ago

That is called reductio-ad-absurdem, and I am glad you appreciate its implications for your beyond-beyond comment.

[–] LaLlama 7 years ago

Oh please. You must forgive me for not seeing the correlation between parents raising kids and invading other areas for political gain. It's only so logical.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

No, the problem is not that you do not see, it is that you deliberately shut your mind and turn into insult mode. You think your parents did not train you to do that?

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

"Parents impose their will on their children too"
Not by use of military force.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

Au contraire ...
In this world it is not said, but citizens are owned and used by their governments under threat of violence, and if you do not raise your children right or bottom line make them a financial liability both parents and children are in real trouble. The military industrial state is what we are, and democracy is slowly being phased out in favor of corporatism ... it is Fascism 2.0 without concentration camps ( now those who are not useful are just jettisoned into the public space ) and a genocidal component that is well hidden.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

That made absolutely no sense. The citizens in other countries own their governments. Governments and militaries aren't parents and citizens are not children. Children raised wrongly are usually those raised with violence or strife in the family and turn out to be very bad adults. They are two totally and completely distinct concepts.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

> That made absolutely no sense.
FU

You know, what makes no sense if the idiots on social media who think this is a way to have a conversation/discussion.

> The citizens in other countries own their governments.

If you believe this then the world itself must make no sense, because that is not only a complete illusion, but it is BS. In the USA on the political issues that a plurality of Americans want for our country - none of them has come to pass, and none of them even gets airtime in the news.

> Children raised wrongly are usually those raised with violence or strife in the family and turn out to be very bad adults.

That's a meaningless statement, that demonstrates you have spend little time with these ideas and thus have an immediate defensive emotional reaction. Either engage in a discussion and stop acting like a child or just admit you are only playing and have no intention of really listening to anyone else's POV and don't waste your and my times.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

Not through military force. WTF are you talking about?

Neocons and terrorists are exactly as bad as each other. Actually neocons are worse because they aren't fighting for sovereignty, but for riches and domination.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

Radical Islam IS neoconservatism as both believe in Theocracy or rule by the church.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

I'd say totalitarian of a low-tech nature. NeoConservatism does not really have anything to do with theocracy except insofar as it can be used to bring those people in to vote for Republicans as long as that is necessary.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

That's true but I'm not saying they are the same thing, I'm saying radical Islam fits into the neoconservatism bubble. Ie. nerconservatism isn't radical Islam but radical Islam IS neoconservatism aka fascism.

Christians are a necessary tool, just like the gun nuts. The Republicans keep stringing the crazy Christians along over the abortion issue (which was never a mentioned issue 2 decades ago - maybe because it was a subject not discussed when I was a kid I dunno) but I never heard it. Then they do nothing about it and Christians keep going ahead and vote against their own best interests and against everything else in the Bible.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

> The Republicans keep stringing the crazy Christians along over the abortion issue (which was never a mentioned issue 2 decades ago - maybe because it was a subject not discussed when I was a kid I dunno)

Abortion has been a real issue since the women's liberation movement starting in the 1960's and really got going in the 1970's. Reactionary murder of abortion doctors began in the early 1990's.

While I agree that it is logically against their best interests, most people vote against their best interests and often act against their best interests. If that were not true a handful of oligarchs all over the world could not keep everyone prisoner under a system of oppression that started going back almost to the dawn of civilization, farming and cities.

There is a huge technology that was developed way back in time to find ways to use people for the purposes of the elites. I tend to think of this problem as starting with children who are blank slates that institutions find ways of writing their own dramas into. Children should have to right to be put on notice about this, but it is the basic way societies function and always has been ... and even when we grow up and find out or discover the truth there is no way to make it a political or justice issue.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

I never heard it before say 1995. It was never a political issue. Was always a private issue. There are a lot bigger things that Christians need to be ruminating over like war and environmental destruction if they want anyone to take them seriously whatsoever about abortion. But they are cherry picking and the politicos are manipulating them so they aren't credible.

"There is a huge technology that was developed way back in time to find ways to use people for the purposes of the elites."

And who do you think is fighting against this enslavement? I'll tell you the leftists, and have been ever since we were freed from our feudal masters. And who is fighting for the perpetuation of this enslavement? The rightists are and they know it, or they must know it.

[–] Corbell (8199) 3 years ago

You know, I didn't watch the show, and I won't be.

BUT, it seems you are really pushing a fear of hte neo-cons.

Are you aware of the irony?

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

Dude. 9/11. Afghanistan. Iraq. No WMDs Seriously. Think for yourself. I mean seriously, Afghanistan. AFGHANISTAN! You got that right?

[–] Corbell (8199) 3 years ago

What are you even saying? Afghanistan? They sheltered the people that attacked us. EVERYONE supported that invasion. The freaking dems, and the republicans.

YOu are the one engaged in the politics of fear.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

No EVERYONE did not support it. The left didn't support it. The Dems fell for the Right's lies. Look just watch this documentary. And the Dems back then didn't represent the Left, hence Ralph Nader. Only Cynthia McKinney was true. You don't know what happened in Afghanistan. What is happening now.

You're engaged in the politics of complete ignorance.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

Ok since you're such a fucking knowitall, why did they go into Afghanistan? Do you know? Do you have any clue whatsoever? Hint: Trump thinks he did the deal with them over it in 2018.

[–] Corbell (8199) 3 years ago

Got it. You are the far left representative. Sure. there was SOME fringe voices raised in opposition to the insanely popular war. In numbers right up there with the flat earthers that were against it, because they were afraid that the troops might fall off the edge of the world.

We went into afghanistan because of 9-11 and the fact that the Taliban would not hand over the terrorists over. That you are also part of the conspiracy fringe, is not surprising.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

Not really. I'm pretty straight down the middle. Even Ron Paul opposed the war. Tulsi Gabbard is pretty moderate and opposes preemptive wars. Nothing fringe about them. You're delusional. It was an insanely unpopular war.
Afghanistan war more unpopular than Vietnam https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2013/12/30/afghanistan-war-more-unpopular-than-vietnam/

And you don't go to war and kill thousands of American troops because of a popularity contest. You're a true psychopath.

"We went into afghanistan because of 9-11 and the fact that the Taliban would not hand over the terrorists over."
Oh you believe that garbage. What did the Taliban have to do with 9/11? Hand what terrorists over? They were from Saudi Arabia, trained in the US and died on the airplanes according to your fairy tale right?

You still don't know why we went into Afghanistan do you? You're utterly clueless. And you haven't watched this documentary old man so shut the fuck up. Watch it and you'll wake up.

[–] Corbell (8199) 3 years ago

At this late date, your pretense that you do not know the connection between the Taliban and 9-11 is silly. Don't be silly.

If you want to express ideological disagreement with neo-conservatives, being an hysterical panic monger is certainly one way to do it. But don't expect to be taken seriously.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

Most of that co-opting the religious right came about during Reagan. We started to see the pushing of these Right-Wing scam artist preachers and political pushes to teach creationism in schools, and of course anti-abortion.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

Ah you remember.

[–] brux (14666) 3 years ago

Of possible interest:
https://moviechat.org/tt12351448/The-Reagans
The Reagans (2020) (tv show): A four-part documentary series that explores the many surprisingly unexamined aspects of the Reagan White House, and how Nancy Reagan's paper-doll image was at odds with the power she ultimately wielded throughout her husband's presi Discover the latest Discussions, Reviews, Quotes, Theories, Explanations and Analysis of The Reagans (2020)

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

groups like PNAC are literally the Deep State.

[–] trevorh321 (5495) 3 years ago

Well, I agree about necons being wrong but in no WAY are they are evil as Islam or the present day liberal or Antifa or BLM.

I thought Bush and Cheney were horrible at their jobs and I am THRILLED to see they are now part of the left.

And Benghazi was an Obama fuck up. He screwed the pooch there. No one else. It was all on him.

[–] TriumphReq (1857) 3 years ago

They aren't part of the left. You've just joined the so far right extremists they just seem like that but they are all on the right. There isn't much of a left in this country.

Benghazi was nothing compared to the Reagan 1983 United States embassy bombing in Lebanon. They let it happen and then cut and ran.

[–] trevorh321 (5495) 3 years ago

They are ALL YOURS now. And I am elated! The Bush family. The Cheney family. Good riddance to them all and you enjoy them all, ya hear? LOL