Excellent screenplay, superb british acting; tells it the way it probably would really happen. No holds barred. Slight propaganda, clever use of Muslim police officer investigating Islamic-based terrorists. I gave this an 8 (out of 10).
Mountain Man
this term "Islamic terrorist" is very offensive and misleading. You can use Al-qaida terrorist or Middle-eastern terrorist but "Islamic terrorist" is a very sinister construct.
Offensive? As if all ME terrorists AREN'T OR HAVEN'T been Islamists? Let me see if I understand you. Does al queda allow Christians or Jews into their terrorist families? It's Islamic and Islamic terrorists that are the sinister ones...oh offended one. Maybe...just maybe all Muslims aren't terrorists...but so far all terrorists have been Muslims. And spare me the McVeigh crap please.
[deleted]
you are correct that all Muslims are not terrorists since there are 1 billion Muslims in this world. You are either a terrorist or you are not, there is no need for a qualification.
Americans have killed 100,000 Iraqis in your illegal war, important point is that it is a fight between America and Iraqis, not Islam and Christianity. The American soldiers who kill Iraqis are Americans, not Christian soldiers.
Alqaeda is a criminal organization and its members are alqaeda terrorists. Using them to slander all Arabs and Muslims only offends more people, does not achieve anything positive. Please write that to your favorite Fox News pundit.
Illegal War? Iraq violated the cease fire from the first damn war why hasn't any talked about that in the past 3 years. And you can't say that war wasn't legit, the crazy mofo invaded Kuwait.
shareAlmost all arab muslims are complicit in the islamic terrorism. The muslim culture as a whole prefers theocracies to democracies, repression to freedom, patriatical rights to equal rights, violence to non-violence. This war is modern, western society against archiac muslim society. The extremists, the islamic-facist must be hunted down and killed, and the rest of the arab muslim world has to learn to reject such thinking or forever remain with Sub-Sahara Africa as the only two areas in the world the average citizen's quality of life is going down. Look at South east Asia, India, Latin America all third world areas that have made much more progress economically and politically than the Arab world. The Muslim religion in its extreme wahalby(sp) form is hurting the Arab people. Why is it the Jews can take a strip of middle eastern land and produce a first world while the Arabs all around them are still living a third world existence? It is not just American money. The Egyptians get almost as much aid from America as Isreal. It all boils down to culture.
sharegreat remarks by twc- sharp and painfully accurate- Islam is a detour in the
great chain of being
Almost all arab muslims are complicit in the islamic terrorism. The muslim culture as a whole prefers theocracies to democracies, repression to freedom, patriatical rights to equal rights, violence to non-violence.
That is a very simple comment to a very complex issue, if your logic is correct then i can say that Christians should all be responsible for the deaths and suffering caused by imperialism in the last two centuries, which has always be justified by Christian and European superiority. And what about all those Ammerican Natives and Afro Americans killed and enslaved, where is the punishment and reparation for that? What goes around comes around, you cannot possibly think that there are no consequences for what Europe and the USA has done in its past.
The way you want to blame all the suffering caused by terrorist to every Muslim in the world can just as easily thrown back to your own face.
Hey.......I got an idea. If you Muslims or Arabs dont want U.S. soldiers in your countries looking for Bin Laden. WHY DONT YOU FIND HIM YOURSELVES. There your countries. You know your countries better than the U.S. does. Right?
You know why? Because you support him. You approve of his actions and tactics. You hide him and finance him.
And we know it.
I am a former Navy Seal(retired),I know a thing or two about terrorism, but I don't really want to get into that on a forum thread...I just want to know if this movie is worth a damn! How 'bout it?
shareThe Movie is Definitely worth a viewing, I actually bought it after I'd seen it on hbo
give it a go.
I recently watched this movie for the first time, and in my opinion is one of the best movies I have seen on the issue. Also it is in my top 10 movies that I need to buy from the UK. It was very even and realistic, 10/10
Also where did you buy this movie? I looked for it in Best best but I did not see it.
but so far all terrorists have been Muslim
you should get your facts right
there are many terrorist organizations which have not the slightest thing to do with Islam. terrorist activities related to the Middle East account for about less than 30% of all terrorist activities in the whole world.
Or do you think that terrorists in South America, Ireland, China, Japan etc. are all Muslims....
what an inane and insipid comment by aamirabbas--maybe all Muslims aren't terrorists;but comments like this show that even Muslims who don't strap bombs to themselves are either giving tacit approval to the ones that do; or they refuse to see the sickness that has infected their "religion". The thousands and thousands of innocent people obliterated by filthy Islamic terroists is the sinister constuct- nothing misleading about that you idiot--send me a list of non-Muslim terroists.
share
There is no list of non-muslim terrorists. Just as there are no "moderate" muslims. When I see a "Million Muslims march" on wash, D.C. with American Flags held high, singing God Bless America and denouncing terrorism..that'll be the day I might change my mind about Muslims. Until then you're all a potential 5th column waiting for allah to call you to kill more infidels. Islam is not a religion of peace or understanding. It's a killer cult of death and the subjugation of all who don't believe in their pedophile prophet of moon worshippers.
Jeeze there sure has been a lot of intelligent posts in this thread. Clearly like 99.999999999999999999999999% of muslims are no different from people of any other faith. You guys are clueless.
"Everybody be cool... you be cool" George Clooney as Seth Gecko in From Dusk Till Dawn
Tell me then. How do you uncover the 1% of 1 billion Muslims that are determined to kill you? That's a lot of bombs to find. And they only have to be right once.
I strongly doubt 1% of Muslims want to kill American civilians. The solution here is worrying about something more threatening than terrorists ie Cancer or Global warming. Terrorists are not a threat to normal life so just cool it.
"Everybody be cool... you be cool" George Clooney as Seth Gecko in From Dusk Till Dawn
Now I know what I'm dealing with. The tinfoil hat on your head needs adjustment.
"Terrorists are not a threat to normal life"!!
Tell that to the survivors and families of those 3000 that were going to work as they NORMALLY did... on 9-11-01.
First you claim that 99% aren't a threat. Then you claim that the remainder who've been murdering innocents around the planet as well as Americans AREN'T a threat? Make up your mind little Mr. Moonbeam. Show me a conflict on the planet and I'll show you a murdering muslim is behind it.
BTW: Cancer is what you get from living. Sooner or later most of us will get it.
And Global Warming. You're absurd. Take the pipe out of your mouth before you gag on it.
I understand profiling at airports and such but you're a racist and I'm not going to argue with you anymore.
"Everybody be cool... you be cool" George Clooney as Seth Gecko in From Dusk Till Dawn
So profiling's OK with you? Which is considered racist by our Islamo-cowards! Check out the blatherings of the CAIR group as to how they feel about profiling. So you must be a little racist yourself eh, Mr. Moonbeam?
Typical libby crap...call someone a racist without any proof or merit and you think the arguments over. Go get a brain you wimp.
Great way to retort.
You're a racist so nyah!
Very mature. Fat lot of good that will do when the NEXT attack hits the Free World.
Prove someone's a racist. Otherwise, just stop using that insipid terminology. Racist, Nazi, and Jew-lover are all over done.
this was the first intelligent response that I could find, and felt fit to reply/post to.
I grew up in the UK and was in constant fear of what I considered terrorists; the Irish. The Irish Republican Army, which was largely funded by the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, was constantly bombing the UK and slaughtered a lot more people than occured in 9/11. I know that I am being one sided and not mentioning the way the UK/England treated the Irish. All I am saying is that the USA supported terrorist cells (so they could profit from them just as American companies had profited off of the Nazi's in WWII) until it happened to them (just as in WWII).
I used to be a Jehovah's Witness, and have been dating a Jewish girl for over a year now. My spiritual beliefs fall under Bhuddism as I was the equivelent of baptised one when I was born in Hong Kong (to a British man/American Air Force woman - both white). The closeminded stupidity and personal arrogance that I have experienced with Christians, mostly Catholics, on a first-hand basis has had me grow contemptment for them.
I've bedded women from every race (from chinese to native american) and relgion (protestant to Hindu) so I have no bias or restraint (what man does :), but I can tell you this much. The next world war is going to literally be a holy massacre. A religious war to divide the world and split nations asunder. If you've ever seen illuminati propganda, then you'll agree.
@Impertinent: So I guess if you were Hitler, those who worship Islam would be your Jewry?
How braindead do you have to be to think that the root of all evil is a religion based originally on being a good person?
BTW, I could name several conflicts not involving "Muslim Terrorists", for instance:
-Irish Republican Army/Sinn Fein in the UK
-North/South Korea conflict
-South America and the paramilitary forces processing drugs for profit
-South America and the CIA-sponsored dictatorships which dominated the continent
-Ethnic cleansing in Rwanda, Kenya, and literally dozens of other African countries (even excluding the few countries which are predominantly Muslim)
-China and Taiwaan at each other's throats over territory
Why don't you get your facts straight before making idiot claims like "gimme a conflict, and i'll give you a muslim behind it all".
The terrorists behind the September 11 attacks make up a fraction of a fraction of those who are followers of Islam. How dare you persecute an entire religion for the acts of a small amount of fanatics? It's the whole "AMURIKA, *beep* YEAH!" crowd that gives the United States a bad name, including the moronic, neocon, Jesus freaks at the helm of the country.
Saying that there are no moderate muslims is racist and prejudice plain and simple, and it's stupid.
"Everybody be cool... you be cool" George Clooney as Seth Gecko in From Dusk Till Dawn
"There is no list of non-muslim terrorists. Just as there are no "moderate" muslims. When I see a "Million Muslims march" on wash, D.C. with American Flags held high, singing God Bless America and denouncing terrorism..that'll be the day I might change my mind about Muslims. Until then you're all a potential 5th column waiting for allah to call you to kill more infidels. Islam is not a religion of peace or understanding. It's a killer cult of death and the subjugation of all who don't believe in their pedophile prophet of moon worshippers. "
My god, ultra-conservative idiocy, insanity and paranoia at it's worst. People like you give me the creeps. Thank god I don't have to put up with people like you on a daily basis...
[deleted]
Oh yeah sure, ALL Muslims are like that and no way a CHRISTIAN fanatic would do something like that ever. Naa, Timoty McVeigh was just an illusion. Or those Jewish ADL activists that wanted to blow up Muslim schools and infrastructure in the US...
Continue living in the black-white world, you and your conservative pals over here at IMDB...
Bluesy, my friend. Moral equivocation does not an argument make. But, you started it. Since 1995...I think there have been 4...FOUR...now count them on your toes...FOUR....convicted AMERICAN /"CHRISTIAN FANATICS".
Now do the best that you can and try to remember this..."NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS...BUT ALL TERRORISTS SO FAR HAVE BEEN....MUSLIMS".
My entire premise is based on the fact that NO MUSLIM since 1993...pre 911 and since the first WTC bombing...has ever come out in an organized fashion and condemned their stinking cult for it's actions. Nor have you seen an organized outrage or a rally with MUSLIMS, living in the USA, march to demonstrate that they indeed love this country. Why is that? I think it's incumbent on them in these times to do all they can to arrest those stereotypes that abound about them in America.
It's their pedophile "prophet", Mohammed that prevents them from expressing remorse, sorrow or outrage over their Quaran's dictated...murder of infidels...meaning you and me...unless you're a muzzie yourself. I could not blame the ADL for it's actions since....how many Jews have been killed by these savages over the years?....they are simply fighting back for their survival.
"Continue living in the black-white world, you and your conservative pals over here at IMDB... "
Fool...it's not conservatism...it's the liberal fools and flower children like you...that the muzzies will kill first. At least they know the rest of us will fight back. And the world is indeed black and white...right or wrong...and it's fools like you and the ACLU that have reinvented moral relativism. Keep drinking the kool aide like a good little dhiminni.
I ain't Muslim, was baptised (Catholic) as a baby, but I don't believe in any religion, so much for your "muzzie" insults (which insult an entire religion and more then 1 billion people btw)..
And thank god I am not an American. I can clearly see what the republicans, Bush, Patriot Act doctrine has done to many in the US. All you see is black white, as though there are no good Muslims and as though Christians and others (what the IDF does in Palestinian territory is a war crime) don't have a bloody history of all kinds of terrorists attacks, crimes against humanity (your soldiers on world "crusades" after WW2), war crimes etc that killed much more people than any terrorist attack on the USA. You just don't see the whole picture, that's your problem.
That is it from my part, I have no intention of going on since this is IMDB and I prefer to comment on movies, not politics. But some of you really force me to say and comment certain things from a different perspective. It would do you good to listen once in a while to others that aren't either US, Muslim or involved in any of the brutalities going around the world...
EOS
"And thank god I am not an American"...
I too thank Him you're not either...you have no business dissing my country you ungrateful Euro-peon. You'd still be goose stepping down the Champs or in Picadilly circus if it wasn't for the US's "crusades". One of which was to save your continent from TWO mad men....Hitler and Stalin.
"what the IDF does in Palestinian territory is a war crime"...
And I suppose what the Pale-maniacs do in Tel Aviv to babies, children and their mothers on busses is ok with you? Figures...go adjust your tin foil hat and sit in the corner like a good little pacifist. That is until whatever crummy country you live in is over run with "good Muslims"
[deleted]
Impertinent, had to read more of your dribble for entertainment, it really is funny, so nice to see right wing ignorant stereotypes down to a tee.
-----
"NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS...BUT ALL TERRORISTS SO FAR HAVE BEEN....MUSLIMS"
-----
Have you been to Ireland, I live there and dont see any muslim terrorists in the IRA. In the UK i've met loads of muslims, with peaceful beliefs, they didnt even want to kill me. I've been to Turkey, a mainly muslim country and they were so friendly with a great sense of humour. Americans like you are ignorant and stupid about the rest of the world, not surprising since 20% only have passports. Guess you should just concentrate on basing your opinion from what little information you have - tv, internet, radio, family etc as I dont believe you have ever seen anything outside your coccoon.
Want my opinion? (No i know you dont but *beep* you anyway). America needs to stop being so paranoid, thousands more people die from your own guns than terrorists, muslims dont scare me, americans do, who else is more trigger happy than you lot with thousand of nuclear warheads. Please Impertinent, just please think about the bigger picture of the world, and the fact you really are a retard ha ha!!!
You wanted a list of non-Muslim terrorists, here you go:
IRA: Arguably the most dangerous and most effective terrorist group in the world after Al quida. Just recently in December (accused of) pulled off the largest bank robbery in Irish history. Last terrorist attack: 4 weeks before 9/11
ETA: 800 dead over 30 years; Last terrorist attack: last week
Tamil Tigers: Invented sucide bombing; killed over 10,000 over 30 years. Last terrorist attack 2 years ago.
FARC: Been doing lots of kidnapping lately. (Accused of) Attempted to assassinate George W. Bush on his recent visit there.
PKK: Mostly secular Kurds in this organization. Keeps Turkey unstable.
Interesting thing about "terrorism" that none of you ignorant idiots seems to realize is that many of the first world nations were founded by "terrorists" who employed "terrorism" to gain their independence by forcing their rulers into an unwinable and costly war such as the United States, Israel (founder Ben Gurion INVENTED modern terrorism), France, Spain, Italy, Ireland, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, and so on and so on........
Why are people in this place so stupid....
to eman007-this is one of the stupidest comments I have ever seen--To compare the PKK and these other national insurgencies to global Islamic terror is beyond ridiculous- Was Mohammed Atta fighting for a homeland for his people?--You throw out facts with absolutely no understanding of them- these Muslims aren't fighting for anything--they want infidels dead; they want the west destroyed;pure and simple; they are dead already----it's an oppresive religion that retards any kind of progressive economic or cultural development wherever it sprouts.
The comments by tkphoto earlier were exactly correct- Muslims in the west are a 5th column- I'm positive that on 9-11 you had a big smile on your face.
Thats the thing about you racists, particular the very ignorant ones such as yourself.....completley devoid of rationale, logic or even sense. For example: "stupidest" is not even a word.
I would strongly suggest that you read things instead of as you say "thow out facts with absolutely no understanding of them." I particulary don't understand how you came to that really stupid conclusion (read that carefully, that is how you use stupid in vocabulary)that I was smiling during 9/11 when I didn't even mention it. On the contrary it is you who smile when people are killed, particulary when muslims are killed making you a hypocrite. I would suggest you actually read what i'm going to say not glace at it and come to some blase conclusion that has nothing to do with what I said and then go here: www.wikipedia.org or www.economist.com since i'm going to use those two places as references. Perhaps you should try to learn how to read and fix your vocabulary as well....
The PKK, the IRA, Hezbollah, AL Qaida are all the same: they use violence for the purpose of achieving a political, religious, or ideological goal. They are a group of people dissatified with the current political and social system and as a resort use terrorism as an alternative to an open declaration of war by those who otherwise feel powerless. In the case of Al Qaida, they are "fighting" a "homeland" for "their people".....in this case Osama wants to re-establish the Caliphate across the middle east, by seeking to overthrow secular or Western-supported regimes. They attack the west because they feel (correctly so, more or less) that western governments, and particularly the American government, interfere in the affairs of Islamic nations against the interests of Muslims through economic and military support of regimes that oppress Muslims, such as by giving billions every year to Israel and vetoing every otherwise-unanimous United Nations condemnation of its alleged atrocities, "invading and conquering" Islamic countries, meddling in the affairs of Islamic governments and communities, causing the deaths of tens of thousands of Muslims via economic sanctions, and supporting tyrannical anti-democratic governments like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan with weapons, troops, and billions of dollars that in turn brutally oppress and as you say "retard progressive economic or cultural development". The IRA feels this way about England as much as the PKK feel that Turkey does the same thing as does ETA believes that way about Spain. Its also very interesting that you pigeon-hole ALL 1 billion muslims into this tiny minority of muslims that are simply using the concept of Islam to kill people and justify their political cause whereas in the same vein, you obviously would do the same thing given the same circumstances. You clearly sound just as violent, blood-thirsty, and as ignorant as the Islamic radicals. Should I pigeon-hole you as a terrorist as you irrationally did to me and Islam in general?
Its also interesting to note that Christianity went through a phase...a millenium long phase..... that was as you say "oppresive religion that retards any kind of progressive economic or cultural development wherever it sprouts" this happened right through to the 19th century.
Again, as I am making this clear now, I am merely stating fact and the obvious and not justifying terrorism or in particular "Islamic" terrorism in any way. I am making this clear now so that when you choose to ignore this and continue on with your rabble, I have something to rebut you on.
Might I sugest, and I pass this on to tkphoto as well, that you stop, as you say: "throw out facts with absolutely no understanding of them" and thereby learn the facts and understand them before you make a fool out of yourself in public like you seemingly get a kick out of doing with your "stupidest" comments......
first of all eman- stupdiest is a word -maybe you need a better dictionary-
and its Al Qaeda not Al Qaida-- your moral relativism is mind-boggling; Hitler and Tojo certainly had some valid historical complaints that could well serve to justify their actions; should we have tried to understand their actions with that in mind. Sure I've gone over the top with my comments- you should read an article by al-Rashid 9-4-2004 (avail at worldpress.org) by a major Egyptian columnist-
"The sad truth is that all terrorists are Muslims"; you can be a devout Muslim
and still bemoan what has overtaken no small portion of Muslims in this world.
Of course the west has meddled in the Middle East; well it's not 1920; the Muslim solution is to fly planes into towers or to strap bombs to themselves--or as you have done--blame Israel for all your woes-that is so pathetic
I read an incredible stat a while back:
the number of books published in all the Arab world in 2002 was less than 25% published in Spain. The rest of the world is advancing, in fits and starts, in recognizing how freedom and democracy empowers mankind; radical Islam hates both of these values and you know it- should we discuss recent fatwas--can we wait 1000 years to allow Islam to rejoin the world- when they have easy access to western
technology, I don't think we have this luxury.
Does using the internet make you people not use your critical thinking skills?
Is usining critical thinkg difficult for you? Does it hurt? Are you in some sort of mental instituion???? Seriously?
Why do you make assumptions on an entire group of people based on the actions of a very few people--yet when these people make such assumptions on the west you get angry. A point I made very much clear in my post. Please read it for reference. (Carefully if you can!)
Where do Hitler and Tojo come into this? I talk about how you so stupidly pigeonhole a group of people based off of the actions of a tiny few, and the reasons why this few do what they do and you bring up Hitler and Tojo? Particulary Tojo who only led the Japanese army for such a short period of time and while influential, was not the PRIME reason why the Japanese did what they did (It seems I got you once again).
While we're on the subject of the Japanese, they used sucide attacks and bombing. And it was an efficient, yet ineffective way of inflicting damage, are they a "backward culture" too?
Even after you admitted you didn't use your head half of the time you wrote that, you continue on and maintain your ignorance.........
First off again (i'm going to type in caps since you can't seem to read clearly what i'm saying) NOT ALL MUSLIMS OR VIOLENT OR IN THE MIDDLE EAST FOR THAT MATTER. There are muslims in India, they have the same grievances towards the US as do Muslim's elsewhere are they suicide bombing incidents towards westerners there...no.....they chose to (justifiably to an extent) attack Hindu's and Sikhs who attack them first. It was only recently, and only because of the influence of Osama or immigrating Arabs that Muslims in SE Asia, didn't resort to suicide bombing, particulary towards the west.
THINK ABOUT IT!!!
The IRA had greivances towards the British that were largely cultural and Relgious (Catholic Irish vs. Protestant England) does this mean ALL catholics are violent and evil??? THINK ABOUT IT!!!
The Basques in Spain have greivances towards the Spanish government, some of them choose to react violently and hence ETA, does this mean ALL Basques are bad and violent????
You seem to be very violent, mindless, and hypocritical--much like the terrorists and the immaginary muslims you hate--does this mean ALL Americans are like you? No thankfully not.
Its also interesting that Muslims using sucide bombing was largely a Palestinian and Sri Lankan phenomemon until Osama and co realized what a valuable tool it could be.
And what do you mean by its not 1920??? What are you talking about.
Seriously, thinking about things before you say and do it I would think is a valuable personal asset that would come in handy in situations such as this. Unless its painful for you, (and it seems to be) maybe you should do it more often.....
[deleted]
"If you bother to read the 'Koran' you will again know what is spelled out for you. The 'Koran' does not hide the fact that it believes Islam is the one true religion and anyone who does not following those teachings IS THE ENEMY. It is a great glory for Islamics to kill the enemies of Islam. Therefore, everyone who does not believe are targets. Read it for yourself."
OK? So what? As I pointed out, all major religions ask their followers to do this. The Koran is just more blunt about it more than Christianity. Even the major factions in Christianity tacitly say and said this and hence all of the wars in Europe up to the 19th century were all religious wars. In fact, the Bosnian war was a religious war (Christian Serbs vs Muslim Bosnians).
Read a history book instead. I have, and it works wonders.
[deleted]
Not really. It describes the motivation behind the terrorism in the same way that "Eco-Terrorist" does.
shareHello, aamirabbas.
I see that your post is from so long ago that you will likely never see my response. I agree with you that the term "Islamic terrorist" is offensive. The proper term would be "Islamist terrorist," I believe. After all Islamism is a political movement and, thus, subject to all possible criticism.
what struck me as so surreal, was the fact they had to close down that part of london for thirty years.
tkphoto you're just a little too right-wing for me man, despite some sound points.
KipsWellsFan, you need to get your head out of the clouds.
Eman, Americans don't have the IRA or Basque nationals trying to blow up buildings, they have Islamic-fascist terrorists trying to blow up buildings. Wise up sir.
"Stop being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over..."
Again the ignorance continues........
Americans don't have the IRA or Basque nationals trying to blow up buildings, they have Islamic-fascist terrorists trying to blow up buildings. Wise up sir. "
Uhhhh....yes they are. They've been doing it long before the "Islamic-fascists" (kinda of a stupid term if you ask me since neither are related) and they continue to do it. If it weren't for the fact that Americans supported the IRA and Basque nationals don't have any particular reason to attack Americans (although they technically could since the U.S. DID put them on the terror list at the request of the Spanish and the E.U.) they would be attacking Americans too.
Wise up sir.
"Everyone imposes his own system as far as his armies can reach." -Joesph Stalin
[deleted]
the reason why profiling isn't efficient at airports is because our American women are sympathetic and sleep with Arabs... in the future the terrorists will be using our own women against us. mostly strippers, ho's and club girls though.
[deleted]
"A little OT, but does it annoy anyone that racial profiling is NOT allowed?
Terrorists who want to attack us are almost invariably MUSLIM. Therefore, it makes sense to check MUSLIMS at airports. Who the hell cares if it makes them feel bad? It's more efficient and expedient. We need to put the lives of our people before the comfort of our enemies."
My guess, daedalus1337 is not a Muslim (or has the stereotypical traits of a Muslim). I also guess the question posed, "Who the hell cares if it makes them feel bad?" should be interpreted as, "Why the hell should I care if it makes them feel bad since I am not Muslim?".
Also, many of the Muslims you are advocating to check are "our people". Islam is a belief like Christianity, not a race. Many U.S. citizens are Muslim. If you want to profile based on the odds of some group going nuts and killing a bunch of innocent people in the U.S., I would start with U.S. veterans. I assure you, there have been many more mass murders (e.g., McVeigh, Maryland Sniper, postal employees) killed by former military than by Muslim extremists in this country.
While your at it, we should also profile all young, white males, as they are the leading demographic of serial killings in this country. Again, killing more in this country than all the Muslim extremists combined.
eman007 = Undercover Iman?
Not too reassuring.
And islam is fascism. The very name "islam" means submission. Does the koran recognize the authority or sovereignty of any non-islamic, secular or democratic system? Does it tell its followers that where the goverment and the koran disagree, muslims must obey the government? Sorry, genius, islam--at least that which is described in the koran--is of its very essence fascistic. The taliban and iran are perfect examples of what islam is.
Let me guess, now I'm stupid and ignorant as well?
P.S., I'm a true infidel, not even a christian.
Now...you don't know who I am or where I come from......I could be an analyst at a bank (which I am) or Cate Banchett, or an Iman for all I care, you think i'm an Iman? Do you even know what an Iman is?
By the way..since you so freely make such stupid comments about me, let me guess what you are:
a). a *beep* smelling, drooling retard
b). a snivelling idiot
c). a 11 year old (or a thirty year with the mind of a 11 year old) who thinks he can speak volumes on anything because a man of TV SAYS he can?
d). all of the above
Does the Bible recognize the authority or sovereignty of any non-Chrsitian, secular or democratic system? Does ANY reglion in its holy book does?
Let me give you an official definition of Facism: (got this information from www.dictionary.com yessss.....thats right a dictionary.)
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
Now here is a definition of Islam
A monotheistic religion characterized by the acceptance of the doctrine of submission to God and to Muhammad as the chief and last prophet of God
Now here is a definition of Christianity
a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior
Now here is one of Monotheism
belief in a single God
I'd leave it for you here to connect the dots, but you since you seem incapable of doing so, let me do it for you:
Monotheism as I just presented to you is the belief, or submission if you will, to a single God.
Islam is a monotheistic relgion as is Christianity --religions that require you to "submit to God"
Is Christianity fascist too? Is there Christianofacism? Does that even make any sense to you? (not that you make any sense anyway)
where did you see "God" or religion anywhere in the official definition of Fascism?
Oh, and while we're at it, Isn't it interesting that the instances of facism BY THE DEFINITAION AND OFFICIALLY happening have happened in no Arab or Muslim happened by happpened in Italy, the seat of Roman Catholiscism, the largest relgious branch in the world. The pope, tacitly supported Mussolini and Hitler; Germany, another Christian country, and Japan, an Buddhist/Shintoist country.
Iran is now a theocracy and Afghanistan was a theocracy
Here is what a theocracy is:
n 1: a political unit governed by a deity (or by officials thought to be divinely guided) 2: the belief in government by divine guidance
The Vatican city, also officially a nation state, also the seat of Christianity is a theocracy.
It could be argued that the British monarch is technically a theocratic ruler because of her title as Supreme Governor of the Church of England. However, as the monarch retains only ceremonial authority, most people do not consider the United Kingdom, or any other nations with the British monarch serving as Head of State, as a theocracy.
Now I think you were trying to say that Islamic countries are despotic?? I don't disagree with you there, but fascist??? Or at least I hope you were....
Anywayz, I hope you learned something today. As I just told tkphoto (see post above) please think and read the fact before you act, you'll save yourself a lot of headaches that way.
Cheers! (Do Imans say cheers? Since drinking and saying thinks is blasphemous???)
Eman, sir, you're just plain wrong. Islamic-fascists are fairly new trend starting with the rise of the PLO and Arab nationalism. They are knee-jerk extremists reacting to western influences and then imposing fascist-model governments with the Koran as a backdrop.
And there have been Christian fascists, there have Buddhist fascists and atheist fascists. However a point can be made about the indoctrination of young people inside madrassas and Islamic schools. They follow their clerics so blindly that if one tells his students it is great to kill an infidel and they get an automatic ticket to heaven, they'll do it, no questions asked.
The Vatican doesn't promote terrorism, even if the pope looks awful scary hunched over and drooling. Iran has publicly devoted itself to the destruction of Israel and continually funds Hamas and Hezbollah. Has a single Basque bomb ever been detonated in the U.S.? Are Basque nationals crossing over regularly across America's borders to train terror cells and kill Americans? Arab and African terrorists are the number one threat here, they have been since fall of the Soviet Union.
I respect your opinions and I disagree with all the broad characterizations of Islam on this site. But tolerance is a two way street, you've got practice before you can preach.
"Stop being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over..."
You seem to be the only person here with brains and sense, and you are correct to an extent, but your "logic" is farcical......
Basque terrorists do not attack Americans BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY DIRECT GRIEVANCES TOWARDS THE UNITED STATES. It is the same way with the IRA and etc. If the United States started directly meddling in the affairs in Bibao or Belfast, you'd probably start seeing ETA and IRA bombings in New York too. Would they be fascist too?
We even put those two groups on the terrorist list, but still no attacks. Why? We never directly acted against them, the American people openly support the IRA, and America's attention is at the middle east right now.
African terrorists? Where in the world did you get that nonsense from? There has NEVER been an act of terrorism from Africa or Africans towards the United States. Around the same time US invaded and continues to waste its time in Iraq, people in Liberia and Ivory Coast and in most of Africa were begging and pleading that the US invade their countries to "liberate" them. This is very interesting as opposed to Iraq and the rest of the Middle East where the US felt inclined to "liberate", only to be scorned and hated even more than before.
And again, it looks like you didn't particualry read my comments too well. The Islamists want a theocracy. But because theocracies these days aint too popular, and Islam is "bad", we equate it with fascism even though the Vatican is a theocracy, Britian, technically is a theocracy, most of Europe less than 150 years ago were Vatican sponsored theocracies. There are people in the United States (Robertson, Falwell, and to an extent, George W. himself) that prefer if the U.S. was a theocracy.
As you say : Stop being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over. Learn about the world as it is instead watching CNN for 5mins and now thinking that you have some sort of extensive knowledge of the ways of the world when its pretty obvious that you don't.
Wow, glad I checked back. There's not much to say other than that all words both denote a meaning and connote a meaning. "Fascism" is a word. Therefore fascism denotes and connotes meaning. But since you've got a dictionary handy, which gave you the "official" definition, all discussions are settled, is that it, genius? By the way, since it appears you're unaware, theocracy and fascism are not mutually exclusive systems under a "connotative" definition of "fascism". Thought my choice of words "essence" and the adjectival "fascistic" would be the giveaway. Guess not. But then, I think the problem is you.
Peace be upon the prophet (Now, would an anti-muslim say something like that? Would he? Huh?)
There is so much disrespect and ignorance prevalent in this thread. I'm not going to pretend to know all the facts and figures, because I don't, and I can't be arsed to look them up, but this is how I see it:
Terrorists are extremists, regardless of the faith/doctrine/myri ad other life-defining systems they're versed in. They don't believe the change they desire can be achieved through diplomatic means, and so act in an extraordinary manner. There is no reason whatsoever that an entire group of people should be judged based on the actions of some, by comparison, small sect.
I neither condone nor think terrorist attacks are in any way correct (I don't think killing other people is ever right), but I can understand the thought process behind them, or at least the Al Queda supported acts. They are people that have interpreted their holy text in such a way that they believe they are right in killing, that their god will reward such behaviour. Some Christians will not have sex until marriage, will not drink or smoke or get tattoos because it is their belief that this behaviour will encourage their god to look favourably upon them upon final judgment. I realise that the comparison is mild, but the principle is that religious people act and behave in a manner that they believe will be rewarded in the next life. There is some sort of violent history in nearly every major religion of the world carried out in the name of that particular religion's deity. It's all a matter of perspective.
Allow me to reiterate that I do not support killing regardless of the group doing it and their reason for it.
Anyway, back to the point of the thread: I caught the movie latenight on PBS and thought it brilliant, and will probably use the remaining balance of my Best Buy card to purchase it 5 April.
I have to push the pram a lot.
I didn’t have time to read the entire poster replies.
I actually agree with eman007 and you’re defending yourself very well. Not all Muslims are terrorists.
Let me remind some terror incidents in USA:
Oklahoma bombing done by Timothy McVeigh and the bombing were performed by an extreme right wing person. He killed 168 people.
Una bomberman: I don’t know how many people he injured and killed.
Anthrax attack: Did they ever catch that guy? How many people did he kill? I’m sure that this guy is not a Muslim. This was a biological attack on Americans.
Japanese army also performaed suicide plane attack on American troops. If Japan did suicide bombing today; their attack would be classified as terror attack on USA.
Actually the terror organizations PKK have performed several terror attacks in Europe (in 80’es) and not only in Turkey. Kurdish people in Turkey are no longer under oppression from 1990, but Turkey is still under terror attack from PKK or KADEK. Both groups are under USA terror list.
Germanflyboy… I assume that you live in Germany and your country have also been exposed by terror attack from PKK in 1980’es. People in Germany have been assassinated by PKK in order to keep Turkey under political pressure.
I'm sorry but my english is not good.
..i wont answer the pkk thing nor any armenian issues(not all kurdish or armenians are terrorists the same way not all turks are killers, remember the guy who tried to assasinate the recently decesed pope).
the biggest terrorist organisations in EU are cristians (IRA, some vasques in spain, Marco in italy).
its just stupid to believe that you are going to harm osama bin laden by attacking 2 whole countries. the thing is that your minds are harrashed by your goverment(some EU members did also)
I don’t know what you’re babbling about.
PKK or KADEK are terror organizations and they’re listed in USA and EU terror list. I never said that Kurdish people are terrorists. Try to ready my poster again.
You stated “its just stupid to believe that you are going to harm osama bin laden by attacking 2 whole countries. the thing is that your minds are harrashed by your goverment(some EU members did also)”
My comment: I certainly agree with you. I hope not that you’re referring to me.
not personally... the ones that really believe that "taking care of" middle eastern countries oil will vanish the problem
shareI'm from Argentina, and I think very similar to eman007 posts...
I keep a paragraph from eman007....I was just typing this when I saw that eman007 already wrote it ....I hardly speak english so copy paste is great.
>>>>In the case of Al Qaida, they are "fighting" a "homeland" for "their people".....in this case Osama wants to re-establish the Caliphate across the middle east, by seeking to overthrow secular or Western-supported regimes. They attack the west because they feel (correctly so, more or less) that western governments, and particularly the American government, interfere in the affairs of Islamic nations against the interests of Muslims through economic and military support of regimes that oppress Muslims, such as by giving billions every year to Israel and vetoing every otherwise-unanimous United Nations condemnation of its alleged atrocities, "invading and conquering" Islamic countries, meddling in the affairs of Islamic governments and communities, causing the deaths of tens of thousands of Muslims via economic sanctions, and supporting tyrannical anti-democratic governments like Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan with weapons, troops, and billions of dollars that in turn brutally oppress and as you say "retard progressive economic or cultural development"<<<<<
I think this is the key of the 9-11.....The support to Israel.
We suffered 2 terrorist attacks here, 2 vans loaded with explosives in 1992 and 1994 against Israel's interest in our country (Israel embassy, 28 dead.....Israel's building, 85 dead).
Both were during times when we heavily supported Israel with troops, military equipment and political support in the Internationals organizations.
There are almost 300.000 judies people in Argentina over a population of 40M...they are a big target for this kind of terrorism.
Terrorist attacks are the only "way" that they have to violence-enforce their ideas. Others countries/agrupations have military power for that purpose...they don't.
Most of the common suicide terrorist attacks are almost impossible to prevent...think that most of our security (on every ambient: streets, neighborhoods, subways, bus stations, stadiums, shoppings , business, etc) is oriented to "catch the guilty" or isn’t prepared for stop a suicide-guy.
I don’t justify terrorist attack, but after see one I don't look at the sky saying "WHY?"
Do you like my title...this is what I would think if I shared in your mentatlity of race generalisation. However I do not think that Americans are dumb but some of you on here are doing a very good job of convincing me otherwise along with the fact that the majority of you voted Bush back into the whitehouse.
All Muslims are terrorist?? Well I think you really have to look at what you are going to class as a terrorist. Personally I choose to class the KKK as a terrorist organisation, including its subsiduarys such as the "CHRISTIAN KNIGHTS" who are funnilly enough, not Muslims.
As for the person who said the war in Iraq was legit...I feel sorry for you, it must be hard to live in this world being so ignorant to everything around you. Your president's premise for going to war was "Weapons of Mass Destruction" which were never found. The war was also against international wishes which America blatantly ignored. I live in Australia and feel ashamed of our involvment in the whole incedent but we also have a bad party in power at the moment...maybe if their leader took his head out of G. Dubya's arse for second he could see what he was doing.
For those that keep mentioning Tim McVeigh, you should read this book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785261036/qid=1116424546/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-9035407-7432714
Pretty strong evidence that Muslim terrorists were involved.
None of what any of you are saying is true or deals with TRUE Islam. LOL but I will just laugh at you all, all you are doing is THINKING you know things. Its just THOUGHTS, when will you realize this?... All of your judgemens, ESPECIALLY christians, will go greatly punished according to your OWN beliefs, lol. And still, I laugh at you all....
LOLOLOLOLOLOL........
Well there was WMD's at one point, because WE armed Saddam...We armed him so he could kill his detractors and we could keep a puppet in power. (look up Halabja). Remember the whole radical Iran problem? We gave Iraq weapons to kill Iran, we gave Iran weapons to kill Iraq.. we suck...
As far as "they invaded kuwait"... Heres a brief, simplified history lesson for you. 1911, Britain colonizes what was once Persia. They carve up boundaries and call this place Iraq and that place Kuwait... Fast forward to the end of the 1980's. After years of war Saddam decides to re-annex Kuwait (much like Hitler did with the Sudetenlad) for its oil supplies and access to shipping ports. Problem was George Bush's oil companies had ties to Kuwait. So under the guise of Democracy and liberation, good ole America starts another war...
Now to say All Americans are dumb is as stupid as saying all muslims are terrorists.
In the end all you people fighting over religion are morons ... You dont need a church or a book to know God's love. You dont need to pay money or not eat pork or not eat fish on friday to be a good person and love your neighbor.
Religion is one of the greatest evils ever created by mankind.
"After years of war Saddam decides to re-annex Kuwait (much like Hitler did with the Sudetenlad) for its oil supplies and access to shipping ports. Problem was George Bush's oil companies had ties to Kuwait. So under the guise of Democracy and liberation, good ole America starts another war..."
I voted for Kerry, but it's anti-Western bias like this that gives lefties a bad name. Sure US policy sucks sometimes, but the world would be a WHOLE lot worse off without us.
Here's another way of looking at things:
1) "Saddam decides to re-annex Kuwait (much like Hitler did with the Sudetenlad) for its oil supplies and access to shipping ports". You know, it almost sounds like you're using the Hitler reference to justify Saddam's action. But that aside, your bias compels you to use "re-annex" instead of "invade and occupy a sovereign nation for their resources." Saddam was guilty of doing the exact same thing for which you blame America, but it sounds like you're willing to give him a pass.
2) "Problem was George Bush's oil companies had ties to Kuwait." Um - pretty much all oil companies have ties to Kuwait. Don't forget - there was actually a real international coalition that fought Desert Storm (unlike the US-UK war of today).
3) "So under the guise of Democracy and liberation, good ole America starts another war..." Actually I think Saddam started it. He had plenty of chances to get out of Kuwait and he chose to call our "bluff." This is a problem I see with many lefties: you seem to believe that no one should do anything unless their motives are absolutely pure. Sure we (meaning, the Western world) had reasons of self-interest, but don't forget a country WAS liberated in the process. Say I save your life but you owed me money - does this take away from the act of saving your life?
Reasonable people can disagree on the morality of W's Iraq war, but I see the first Iraq war as a perfectly moral endeavor. Saddam clearly wanted to be THE dominant regional power. This involved not only controlling vast oil fields, but also being in a position to greatly influence the price of oil. So not only did we liberate a sovereign nation, we made sure that he could not disrupt world oil markets.
Now, many on the left would not view fighting to stabilize oil markets as a moral act. "No blood for oil." I can see the point, but I think it's more complicated than that. Like it or not, industrialized economies absolutely depend on oil. It fuels our ambulances, it heats homes during the winter, it gets groceries to the market, it is needed to manufacture plastics for life-saving medical products - in short, oil is morally neutral but it is used in many moral ways. Allowing Saddam to affect the price of oil not only threatens the lives of Americans, but also the rest of the industrialized world. If the price spikes, EVERYTHING gets more expensive (because everything has to be transported), poor people may not be able to afford heating oil, food costs go up, hospitals have to cut back either on ambulance service or medical supplies... and probably a million other negative effects that we can't even begin to imagine. Poor people, by definition, will be hit first as they are the most sensitive to inflation. Yes, we killed people in the first Iraq war, including innocent civilians. It's awful, but made extraordinary attempts to minimize casualities and we preserved countless lives at home. Sure some oil company execs lined their pockets, but that's the cost of affecting change in the real world. At the end of the day, someone has to make a decision and I believe that on balance, America tries to do the right thing.
Now, being a realist, I agree that we have to transition from an oil-based economy and stop meddling in the Middle East. However, this MUST happen slowly. Too much disruption in this process will result in bankruptcies, chaos, and death. One of many complaints I have against W and his administration is that he has not been forward-thinking enough to start a gradual transition. When the disruption comes (in fact, it is likely that it's already beginning) his dallying and denial will result in MUCH harder adjustments than there otherwise had to be.
Your last comments show the folly of generalizations. Not all Americans are dumb, not all Muslims are terrorists, not all religious people are evil. For all the death and destruction done in the name of religion, there has also been a nearly infinite number of compassionate, charitable, and loving acts. The real question is, on balance, would we be better off if religion had never been invented? Impossible to answer, but I'm not sure I want billions of people walking around believing there are no consequences in the afterlife for their actions here. I suspect that keeps a lot of people in line...
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I am a hindu by birth but I never liked the concept of religion. My theory is that religion hasn't given human race anything other than wars and conflicts.
I think you, hindus, christians, muslims, jews are all idiots and closely resemble the animals which can't share anything including peace. However I, a human being am smart.
Every now and then, I come across some conversation in this board which confirms my faith in having no faith.
Come on get your cricket bats (for people in UK, Pakistan, India). Americans, since you don't play cricket, you can hit me with baseball bats....
Now just do yourself a favor. Stop thinking about big things like war, politics etc. Think about your job, promotion, spouse etc. I think you will do the world a favor too....
Well said my Hindu friend, religion is just a means to an end, and that end is war, it has been like this throughout the centuries and it will continue this way by the looks of it. 99% of the people on this planet are mindless drones and the rest of the 1% are laughing their asses off while getting richer and richer.
Without governments to push for wars, there would be no major wars, everything is decided at the top and not the bottom. Think about that all you patriotic little sheep, know the song, follow the leader, leader, leader, follow the leader:LOL: