MovieChat Forums > Nathan Barley (2005) Discussion > Dan Ashcroft + Claire Ashcroft unlikeabl...

Dan Ashcroft + Claire Ashcroft unlikeable?


I've just got around to watching Nathan Barley, i'm not a massive Chris Morris fan but I like Brasseye and Jam... what I was wondering was have these characters been portrayed to be relatable and I just don't get it - or are you meant to dislike them?

I found them to be bitter, boring, self-righteous etc. - and though Nathan and co. were all idiotic hedonists, at least they were having fun.

And how can anyone not find that Junkie Choir hilarious? I hope Chris Morris is just taking the piss out of both types of his fans - the Nathan Barley types AND the Dan Ashcroft types - I know I've met both types

Anyway i thought the show was pretty funny + better than most stuff coming out at the moment, props to the creators

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i always thought dan was the antagonist the guy you were meant to be able to relate to as he is the only 1 who realises all these people are idiots and although granted he isn't that likeable i thought thats just because he's always in a bad mood because of the world he is trapped in as for claire her character isn't particularly likeable i'd say she is very real i think the ashcrofts are meant to be the foothold in reality in a world full of people living on another planet although they are all very real characters, i went to shoreditch once and it was just like nathan barley if you replace the plastic tractors for bmx's!

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I think that Dan and Claire are meant to be unlikable, just in a totally different way to Nathan and co. Dan is obsessed with maintaining his integrity, but is a bit of a tosser and entirely incapable of helping himself. Claire is interested in "serious issues" and making proper, informative documentaries but at the same time is only interested in these things in a self-serving way, in that it would make an interesting film not because she is actually concerned about the subjects of her films in themselves.

Nathan Barley on the other hand in obviously an idiot. But he is not a 'bad' person, so to speak, so much as a bit stupid, very immature and desperate to be liked.

I think we're meant to think that Dan and/or Claire are the characters we are supposed to sympathise with and Nathan the one we're supposed to dislike, but that it isn't actually as simple as that.

Or maybe I'm crediting the show with too much character complexity.

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Thanks. I think you've identified for me exactly why I find 'Nathan Barley' so disturbing. I AM Dan Ashcroft. *beep* Barley is obviously a twat whereas Ashcroft seems an intelligent and critical human being, but despite or because of this Dan ends up perpetually frustrated whereas Nathan is cossetted in the bliss that only ignorance can spawn. So who is the real idiot? - probably Ashcroft! Or maybe the whole thing is some kind of Zen riff - no matter what you do you're *beep* anyway in an absurd world.

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I think you can take whatever you want out of it, but I do think that the Ashcroft's are meant to be unlikeable. I know that Julian Barratt once commented that he didn't like the character of Dan Ashcroft.

I think all of them are idiots in different ways and its a comment on the society that created them, as well on the ways that people are idiots.

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I think it switches half way through. At first you hate Nathan until you start seeing Dan as a tosser and I think the big turning point is when Dan tells Nathan the truth about Geekpie. It's the first time you see how vulnerable Nathan's ego is.

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I absolutely hate Claire. With this whole junkie choir story she's putting together, you can tell she's more bothered about making a name for herself than she is about the subjects in her film. As opportunistic as Barley, I reckon. Oh, and she's a moany gob box who always has a face like an arse that's just been throttled with a boot.

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Dan is certainly a bit of an idiot himself. He was shown to be fairly clueless when he went for the job interview and had nothing to pitch. His only success in the series is his article about the idiots.

I dont think either he or Claire are supposed to be the voice of reason or anything.

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Yes but I think that interview was also poking fun at those weekend supplements too. I mean, 'you drink wine? Okay write us a wine list' was just showing how rubbish their 'experts' are- and since I now know people from school who have gone on to write for papers like the Guardian and the sort of crap they write... well, any respect I ever had has long gone out of the window! I don't think any aspect of the media is safe in Nathan Barley, it is all ridiculous in it's own way.

I found that interview very uncomfortable to watch, probably on a par with the Office in terms of how much my toes curled (difference being that I actually enjoyed watching Nathan Barley and felt bad for Dan!) It was also genius to have that Tom Paulin poster in the background, I kept thinking of when he wrote to Howard asking for a signed picture of his cock and balls in the Mighty Boosh live show XD

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Yes, yes, yes! The interview scene was SO uncomfortable, I loved it. In the US we aren't as balls-out with our "embarrassment humor" -- I don't think I've ever squirmed so much in my seat in my life.

Speaking to an earlier post: I liked that, from this very first episode, we see what's likable about Dan (he isn't an idiot), but also what's wrong with Dan. He won't give anybody credit for having good intentions, for being a good person. From the get-go, he's quick to snarl at his coworkers on his way out the door to his ill-fated interview, and the moment is saddening because his idiotic, naive, well-meaning coworkers are visibly startled and hurt. They welcome him back, cautiously: they are stupid, but they are the people on his side. The interview scene underscores the difference between people who are sincere and clueless and people who are corporately smarmy. But Dan's is the kind of self-righteousness that won't acknowledge the humanity and goodness and potential in other people, and I do think we're supposed to see how sad that it is. We're supposed to relate to Dan, certainly; we ourselves are being accosted.

I think we're meant to immediately prefer the Ashcrofts to Nathan Barley, who is very much a hipster 'tool.' (Does 'tool' exist in UK vernacular? Connotatively I mean someone obnoxious, unlikable, and even short-sighted, without his intending any malice or cruelty. I think our usage of 'douche' implies more malice, though, so given Barley's treatment of his tech coworker, maybe he is a bit of a douche.) As the series goes on I think Barley grows in human-ness. He's too clueless and guileless -- he is, in his stupidity, a kind of faultless martyr, a divine idiot -- to really be hated. The show lampoons youth culture, absolutely, but Dan's is the real cautionary tale. The curmudgeon thing is cute, for a time, and a lack of patience for fools is charming and relatable, doubtlessly. But self-righteousness is usually malicious.

I will say that I think Dan has an 'other' in the series, someone who he is most like, and most in danger of becoming. And that's actually the insufferable Jonatton Yeah?, who is modeled after people like Vice Magazine founder Gavin McInnes. Jonatton matches Dan in terms of smarts, in terms of self-righteousness. He's smart and hateful. He's also smarmy, and disingenuous and calculating, and he's figured out how to market a cult of ego. Cruel is cool.

In the end, Barley and the Ashcrofts all underscore that there are different types of ego, and consequently, there are as many different types of superficiality.

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Claire's heart is in the right place. She just needs to lighten up. And over the course of the series, she does. Dan doesn't, resolutely refusing to do so at each and every given opportunity. NB is about discarding any principles that may prevent you from joining in. Dan goes against the grain and pays the price.

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It's been ages since I watched Nathan Barley but I think to begin with you are supposed to sympathise with Dan because he is the only sensible one, but towards the end when he is out to get Nathan Barley, he is intensely unlikeable.
Claire is revealed to be more and more callous and selfish as it goes on, but I don't remember ever particularly liking her.
I suppose everyone sees things differently, but I got out of it was that - yes the world is full of idiots, but if you don't accept it, if you try and fight it, you're going to end up bitter and harming yourself much more than them.

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I always felt this about the show - that it was taking the piss out of two extreme types of people: the mindless, self-centured conformists and the cynical, arrogant "intellectuals".

A lot of fans of NB are like "Dan Ashcroft rules!" and agree with his "idiot" ideology, which I think is really missing the point of the show.

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Well put.

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I think the Junkie Choir is in there just so Chris Morris can make his audience hate themselves for laughing with Nathan! I'm pretty sure it is taking the piss out of everyone, but that's what makes watching it a vicious circle...if it makes you feel too superior to the masses/"idiots" you think "Oh no, I'm like Dan Ashcroft", so then you have to laugh at yourself...but then the idiots are there to prove that that doesn't absolve you...so basically, yes, Chris Morris is showing how he owns ALL his fans lol. Although hopefully most people outside Shoreditch don't quite act like that!
I think Claire kind of showed her true colours in the episode with Mandy, she didn't care about Mandy at all as a person, only when she thought she was a 13 year old and just fodder for her show. I think part of the show's cleverness is the way it starts with the Ashcrofts seeming to have the moral high ground and then tears it from under their feet.
It is pretty jokes anyway.



"I'm the Bishop of Southwark - it's what I do!"

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I think that that is part of the point. Dan and Claire are supposed to be the smart ones, but, when push comes to shove, they are no better than the idiots.




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