MovieChat Forums > Nathan Barley (2005) Discussion > Why the criticism from avid Morris fans?...

Why the criticism from avid Morris fans???!!!


I'm a film student, and I, along with my friends on my course are huge Morris fans. We watched Nathan Barley and we could identify with the people that it illustrates; thes people exist - pretensious to the extreme without even realising it. Its funny because its a) a social critique b) sometimes gross out (quote; "does the pope *beep* kids) and c) demonstrates what Ricky Gervais refers to as the 'Social Faux-Pas', in this case a depiction of a completely aloof and unaware part of society. The fact that these trendy urbanites are so marginalised could it be that not many people identify with the existence of them and therefore dont find it funny?



***People are strange when you're a stranger, people are strange when you're alone.***

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I'm in full agreement Zissou. The Chris Morris website (cookdnbombd) seemed to decide this programme was going to be rubbish simply because of the corroboration with Charlie Brooker and without giving it a decent chance. For many i think it's more a case of expectation not being met and a change of style to the usual Morris format, but from what i read on the site they were berating the guy simply for not working alone. Wasn't The Day Today written by Armando Ianucci and Chris Morris, and Brass Eye by Graham Lineham and Chris Morris?

I'm also a film student (*collective groan*), and my friends and I loved the show and are praying for a second series, or at least a DVD release. When I talk to people about Nathen Barley I get alot of: "Well... it was alright but it made fun of everyone." Or "It's not as good as The Mighty Boosh, it's the lower end of that new wave comedy scene, a la Green Wing." Well... thats rubbish, it's genius and you're all idiots. The show is brilliantly written, "The idiots are consumer slaves, completely oblivious to the paradox of their uniform individuality." The acting is excellent and the jokes come so fast and are so clever that one has to cover ones mouth to prevent missing out.

Genius! Well Jackson!

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Im "an avid Morris fan" and I didn't like it simply because it wasn't funny. I didn't exactly go into the show with low expectations, I went into it with an open mind despite the criticisms people have written about his other work after Brass Eye. I like Morris' style, but im always happy when people try to do something different.

I watched 3 episodes hoping that it would some how get better as it went along, instead I was just bored and watched it without a single smile coming across my face.

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I am also a film student [its strange that there are so many on imdb], and I am also a fan of christopher Morris. I thought Nathan Barley was fantastic. A cynical and satirical look at society which worked really well.

Is there any news of a possible dvd????

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Hey man,
You can get bootleg VCD's that should (should) be DVD quality off ebay. I'm not sure if will get a release though... Hope so.

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To speak for the CaB lot somewhat... Personally, I don't see how an 'avid Chris Morris fan' (which I would say I probably am) could like Nathan Barley. When you're familiar with all the brilliant material he's produced in the past - not just the more famous works like On The Hour, The Day Today, Why Bother?, Brass Eye etc., but the GLR and R1 radio shows (both of which I would argue are among his best work, if not the best) - Nathan Barley just pales in comparison. It wasn't funny or original or particularly well-written or executed, and simply serves to highlight the slow decline in Morris' career we've seen in the past five years or so. The "you didn't like it because you had low expectations going in" argument is regularly trotted out on the CaB forums by tedious sychophants who argue that they're 'better Morris fans' because they like everything he does. You cannot control your expectations, for a start. Also, of course us 'avid fans' wanted it to be good. But it wasn't. That's hardly our fault, is it? I hope for Chris' sake that he abandons Barley as soon as possible, as it's the least worthwhile thing he's done. Forget series two, what he really needs to do now is get back on the radio. It's his best medium by far, and he's fantastic at it.

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While I am a big fan, i'm not a sychophant, i liked the show because i found it funny, well observed and despite what you said, i'm in the opinion that it was a very origional and clever concept.
That said... I know alot of fans didn't like it, which I can appreciate, and this has caused a wee divide in the old Morris fan-base. I don't think it's a matter of one group being right and the other wrong, but more a matter of which aspects of Morris's humour we find amusing. Blue Jam and My Wrongs pretty much left me cold everytime, but i'd defend Brass Eye and The Day Today even if it came to blows (*yeah, sure you would*). I'm not saying if you enjoyed Jam you'll hate Nathen Barley and visa-versa, I guess i'm saying that... hell i dunno, people enjoy different things and you have to respect that.
I agree Morris needs to do something new, and a Radio project would be awesome, i'd love to see another series of NB; but only if it didn't bomb again (which i guess it probably would) and cause more grief for Morris. I just hope he does something that reflects his talent for comedy writing, and soon.

Cheers.

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While I think Brass Eye remains Morris' finest hour (followed by Jam), I gotta say (prepares for a slating) I find Nathan Barley better than The Day Today - I see it as Brass Eye-lite, plus there are some parts that I just find plain bad (the horrible Nirvana sketch for instance)

- Barley on the other hand I loved from start to finish - think a lot of lazy critics dismissed it as silly and puerile when it is actually a brilliant character study of silly and puerile people from the point of view of a normal(ish) guy trapped in their world (think that should go on the back of the dvd cover!)

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The Nirvana sketch was genius!

DVD comes out 26th September, lots of extras including the origional 45 minute pilot episode they couldn't show.

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Uurh I think the Nirvana sketch is one of Morris' worst moments - feels like an embarrasing dad 'getting down with the kidz' and trying to be funny and hip - like when Richard Madely did that Ali G impresion... stick with the Jeremy Paxman media-lampooning shtick Morris!

Hope the Barley DVD has GENUINELY good extras - the Jam dvd promised loads but failed to deliver big time - Lava Lamp viewing option my arse!

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LMFAO! It was really hilarious and made you look like the stupid (The_)Retarded_Shrew you are.

I appluad everyones 'humouring' of this cretin, he is just another inanely oblivious plushophile.



ANG-HULK was a spiritual journey into crap.

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"The fact that these trendy urbanites are so marginalised could it be that not many people identify with the existence of them and therefore dont find it funny? "

Actually I think its probably because Nathan Barley types are everywhere. To many people, watching Barley must have been too close to home. Like holding a mirror to themselves almost, since they fail to realise the idiot within themselves. Ive read through the opinions of Nathan Barley on cookdandbomd and found that many of the regular posters are arrogant. Many of their arguments focused on the 'fact' that Nathan Barley types only ever existed in areas of London around 5 years ago. However this simply isnt true, I've lost count of the number of peak-haired, slumped jean wearing fools I've seen shouting loudly into their bluetooth headsets, and I live nowhere near London, I see it everywhere I go !

I wouldn't even bother posting such a comment on cookdandbombd though, I'd probably get a group of Morris-wannabes crying and whinging back at me with their 'intellectual' arguments, complete with some big words they'd just looked up in their Thesaurus.

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Surely the reason is that Nathan Barley reflects some of those very fans and rips into them. The characters in Nathan Barley would probably be big Chris Morris fans.

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Careful Bill, I once made a similar comment and received some scathing replies !

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............. or maybe he is kinda wright, like a culling of his wierdo fanatical fans, the others would see it as a funny take on modern pop culture and be able to laugh at themselves.

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Maybe we're simplifying things a bit? There's the old theory that 'Dan' is Morris, and Barley represents the unwanted fanbase of people who appreciate only the surace humour of his writing (like amusing wordplay, of which there is alot in the series) and not it's message, it's satirical elements. Dan wasn't in the origional *beep* series of TV Go home, so it's fair to suggest that maybe Morris created him... I'm anticipating a slaughtering people.

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I actually quite like the theory that Nathan Barley represents Charlie Brooker while Ashcroft is Morris. In the first episode someone says that they think Nathan Barley is "the online Ashcroft"...

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It's because the jokes involving the 'shocking' bits weren't funny. As such it becomes unncessarily/pointlessly shocking.

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In retrospect, I think one main reason that I loved 'Nathan Barley' so much was because it was very good. Thank you...

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It wasn't 'very good.' I'd point out that comedy is largely subjective, but there are numerous reasons as to why it wasn't any good. Lack of originality, poorly written dialogue, one-dimensional characters, an incohesive plot, desperate attempts to shock, etc etc. These five, at the very least, are irrefutable.

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"It wasn't 'very good.' I'd point out that comedy is largely subjective, but there are numerous reasons as to why it wasn't any good........"

.....in your opinion. In my opinion, it was great.

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thurstonlowe you are wrong. It was indeed 'very good'. Thank you...

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...by the way thurstonlowe, I know how you feel! I consider myself an 'Avid Julia Davies Fan', yet pretty much hated the new series of Nighty Night. I also consider myself an 'Avid Chris Morris Fan' and I loved Nathan Barley (enjoyed it more than The Day Today infact) - so there ya go....

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"It wasn't 'very good.' I'd point out that comedy is largely subjective, but there are numerous reasons as to why it wasn't any good........"

.....in your opinion. In my opinion, it was great.


No. I meant objectively. And it's all very well to ignore the arguments of those who disagree with you and simply say 'well I thought it was great,' but it adds nothing to the discussion, does it?

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No, what adds nothing to the discussion is acting like your opinions are written in stone. From reading your earlier posts, you weren't interested in a discussion in the first place, you're reading from tablets from god. Almost all of your points are completely subjective:

lack of originality : so you've seen all culture, ever? elaborate.
poorly written dialogue: again, completely subjective. i thought brooker and morris captured all of the ridiculous affectations and blatant anti-intellectualism remarkably.
one-dimensional characters : i'd tend to agree with this for secondary characters, but I thought the Ashcrofts and Barley rang more true than any characters i've seen in the media as of late.
incohesive plot: i had no trouble following it. you like Blue Jam, right?
desperate attempts to shock: yeah, by the characters. the "idiots" live in a meaningless world where they need to dress everything in empty shock value for it to "rate" with anyone. Barley loudly declaring on the bus that he got a blow job from a thirteen year old isn't especially shocking to the viewer, it's part of his character development, which relates to the last point. as for things like the porn they watch or "stray" culture, they struck me as equal parts realistic and horrifying. not a "desperate attempt" to do anything other than tear down the worthless culture we've built around ourselves.

I would easily place Nathan Barley alongside Brass Eye in terms of quality, although for completely different reasons. If you don't like the element of bitter misanthropy Brooker brings to the table, I could understand that, but it's certainly laced with a lot of Morris' surreal touch. If you've ever had to listen to some assclown your roommate invited over talk about haircuts or endlessly quote from Napoleon Dynamite and wanted to club him to death with his own laptop, it's hard to not love this series.

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What constitutes as "desperate" and "shocking" remain quite subjective. What might be in bad taste or "desperately shocking" to one person can be quite unremarkable to another.

And besides, isn't the fact that they're one dimensional, stereotypical, vacuous, characters kind of the point?

I don't know. I think it's pretty much subjective whether you like this show or not. But then that can be pretty much said about anything.

Or maybe we're just idiots for liking it.

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Are you serious? Because I thought that 15Peter20's "We knew Kylie's piss was real because her hotpants smelled of beans" And Jonatton Yeah?'s explanation of the real age of the models were hysterically funny Shock Tactics. Also Pingu's Labour Conference game, and the thinly veiled (if veiled at all) jibe at Russell Brand's expense.

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Are you serious? Because I thought that 15Peter20's "We knew Kylie's piss was real because her hotpants smelled of beans" And Jonatton Yeah?'s explanation of the real age of the models were hysterically funny Shock Tactics. Also Pingu's Labour Conference game, and the thinly veiled (if veiled at all) jibe at Russell Brand's expense.

Well, the Kylie quote is meaningless, isn't it? In my experience, urine doesn't smell anything like baked beans. It's in bad taste, but I don't know if it's shocking... I for one didn't find it particularly amusing, either.

I can't remember the young models bit, but I agree with you on the Labour Conference game. That was genuinely funny, and one of the few things in Nathan Barley that I enjoyed.

Let's hope his part in Graham Linehan's The I.T. Crowd is something of a return to form (he's playing the boss, apparently - in the first episode at least).

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It was close to home. I live in Shoreditch.

Morris snobs take a hike up yer back alley, yeah! Barley is totally Mexico.

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It's one of the best realised satires ever. I'm a fan of Morris but I thought that Brass Eye was worse and crueler than The Day Today. This series says exactly what I would want to tell the world. well done the makers

Peter

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I think avid Morris fans dislike this program for its lack of similarity to Morris' foregone work, particularly the classic The Day Today and Brasseye. I only watched the second episode, despite being a big Morris fan (damn work, real life, and so on). I am gonna buy the series when I get the dough, tho, and see the whole thing before I commit myself to one view or the other. For what it's worth, the episode I saw made me smile only three times. Weird thing was, tho, I didn't just smile; I rolled around laffing my arse off. Three times!! But not so much as a smile graced my face for the rest of the episode. Odd. But anyway, yeh... it is not "classic" Morris, so soem fans don't like it. Basically. :)

"Find out what to think next!"
-Chris Morris, "Brasseye"

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True. I also think that it got very close to satirising a part of Morris' fan base. After all, many of his fans are multimedia obssessed Nathan Barley types. I think that made them feel rather uncomfortable, as much as they like to deny it.

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"I think avid Morris fans dislike this program for its lack of similarity to Morris' foregone work, particularly the classic The Day Today and Brasseye"

I agree with that. Loads of them just wanted a Brass Eye-style show on the War on Terror. Morris and Inannucci actually did a pullout in The Observer in 2002 which parodied 9/11 and the US government's response. It's called "The Absolute Atrocity Special", you can find it by just googling that phrase.

I don't really understand some of the fans though, there was none of the same complaints about Jam, which wasn't a satire of anything, it was just surreal. Morris is moving on and doing other things.

No creative person likes to do the same type of work over and over. Besides the Brass Eye paedophile episode has reached such notoriety I don't think Morris could do the same spoof interviews etc without being recognised.

Eventually they'll get over the fact that Morris isn't doing another Brass Eye and actually watch the show properly. I think it's as funny as anything else he's done.

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Cheers for the heads up about the Absolute Atrocity Special; reading it now, and it's hilarious!!

"Find out what to think next!"
-Chris Morris, "Brasseye"

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Lol, yeah its good, if you look somewhere along the bottom of the page there's a list of letters from a group of very pissed off New Yorkers who were definetely not in the mood to laugh about 9/11.

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With Nathan Barley, I got the same reactionary profile as I did with I'm Alan Partridge. Originally it seemed only moderately amusing, good but not great. With repeated viewings I got pulled into the created environment, and all the little subtleties of direction, scripting (which in Barley is very minimalist) and some sight gags that I had missed made themselves known. Now after about five viewings of the whole series I'm watching with a huge smile on my face and two or three times burst out in hilarity.

I can see a little of myself in Dan and Nathan, the near-diametrical opposites. I could see my friends in the supporting cast. I can laugh at them and laugh at myself. Personally this reminds me of why I like the Big Lebowski... surreal drama mixed with offkilter comedy. I didn't like that movie the first time either.

Some of my favourite works (not just TV/film: music, painting) have to grow on me. I assume this is because they pose me with a challenge, force me to step outside my comfort zone and reassess some of my core beliefs about why I like that particular artform.

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I think Nathan Barley's reputation will grow and grow. I watched the haircut episode a few days ago (only one i didn't see first time round) and was scared to laugh for fear of missing the next great gag.
'Have you ever taken acid?', Geek Riot, 'what's up, my *beep* and the black guy's reaction, Barley's scene with the guy in the clothes shop, the poster for Excuse, Jones's reaction to Barley's scratching, 'well bum', the cat's reaction (I liked Eldon's clichéd but funny role) etc etc etc etc.
Morris has moved on from the aloof humour of Brass Eye (which I loved). The series is more frivolous, and hits its targets with style

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I'm a bit undecided about Morris. I know he has a huge cult following and is adored by many as a genius, but personally I don't think his shows are all THAT funny. Yes, he seems to be a pretty clever writer and parts of Nathan Barley were funny and true at the same time, but in the UK there are a lot of better shows (Spaced, The Mighty Boosh as well as - I'm gonna get hell for this - The Office and Extras).

Barley definitely had its moments but mostly it was predictable and just not that hilarious.

I know a$sholes grow on trees but I'm here to trim the leaves

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Its down to opinion, so nobody should give you hell for expressing your opinion. I love Spaced, The Office and Extras also.

I think the difference between these programs and Morris is that Morris' comedy isn't necessarily about laugh out loud moments. It's often very subtle and always satirical. So much so that Nathan Barley was completely misread by many. People expected sitcom-type gags when really it was a very cleverly crafted comedy making a mockery out of the indulgent and incompetent "creatives" in their 20s and 30s who are rife in the UK these days. And that was another problem with Barley, it really got too close for comfort for some people, as much as they like to deny it. Channel 4 in my opinion though are at fault for labelling it a sitcom.

If people think Pete Doherty is 'cool' - they won't like Nathan Barley. Unless they don't realise it's a parody, which a lot don't - poor sods.

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I think the reason Barley bombed was that most people just didn't recognise the character, but for many of those who did, he was uncomfortably close to their own lives. I personally found it hilarious. Working in Islington in a 'media' job, I see Nathans on a daily basis - babbling into their handheld twit machines, and riding children's bicycles!

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I love Nathan Barley, as well as most of Morris' work. What I couldn't get into is Jam. Yes, I know that makes me terribly un-hip to you lot, but it just unnerved me. I wasn't offended, but it just isn't pleasant to watch at all.

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You just answered your own question. When Chris Morris is reduced to playing catch-up with Ricky bloody Gervais, something has seriously went wrong.

Can you fly, Bobby?

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Well last night whilst I was sitting crossed-legged in my room trying to come to terms with myself Chris Morris' head burst through my floor and said "Dave, I was just trying to do something different from my previous work." He passed me his torch.

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I watched one episode (episode 6) and, as a fan of pretty much everyone involved, was incredibly disappointed. Thankfully, I went on to watch from the beginning anyway and then couldn't get enough of it.

Maybe it just takes a little bit of time to get used to, or maybe the sixth episode just wasn't very good, but I highly recommend everyone give it a fair chance.

These bastards!

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Cookdnbombd is just a festering pile of failed writers. On the whole their views on this show were sheep like and jumped the gun. Like all morris work, this needed time to enter the public consciousness.






You're an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill

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episode 6 is brilliant. 'pour your pint over him'. 'kick him in the balls, and leave'

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I agree entirely. Coondandbombd's forum is amass with *beep* who can't get over themselves.

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