Would you have had the courage?


I wouldn't.

I visited Sophie's grave this summer when I went to Munich (I also visited the Dachau concentration camp). I almost cried, and I told her: "Sophie, I wouldn't have the courage to do something like that, to die because of my beliefs. May your soul be blessed in eternity." I knew her story but only vaguely.

I am asking you, if something like the WW2 happened again, would you risk your life by spreading fliers in which you are criticizing the regime???

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Very good question. I guess none of us will know the answer for sure unless we find ourselves in the same woeful situation (hopefully never!) yet I don't think most people could do what she did, Just some people with a very deep and strong conviction in their beliefs and values might be able to do it.
I admire her.

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

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"I guess none of us will know the answer for sure unless we find ourselves in the same woeful situation (hopefully never!)"

We are in that same woeful situation. Political correctness and multiculturalism have poisoned honest discourse. Anyone who dissents is labelled a "racist" or "hatemonger".

Big Brother is watching you.

1984 is now.

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.

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[deleted]

Indeed a good question, but I'm not sure "deep and strong conviction in...beliefs and values" is something we want. A bunch of Nazis had that. How about just knowing depravity when we see it?


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yumatom:

So you're saying that "deep convictions" are worse than apathetic nihilism?

It all depends on what the "conviction" is. But then, that would presuppose a moral foundation... something alien to certain people.


Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.

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catalina caesar:

I'm getting combat fatigue, but I have to ask how anyone can be an "apathetic nihilist". That's an oxymoron.



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[deleted]

I would like to say that I would, but I honestly cannot say.

Sophie took full responsibility and probibly would have lived if she cooperated.

At any rate I did weep for Sophie.

This was a beautiful film.

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My country is living it right now. A fascint goverment is rising, but this time the students are fighting. Six months ago I wouldn't have had her courage, but now I'm not so sure. The situation is so critical here that maybe I'm not ready to die yet, but I'll sure as hell will fall fighting.

My country is Venezuela. You might like to check on our situation here. But I'll say that watching this movie scares the hell out of me... We are months away from having a Nazi-like goverment on power. Yet, we won't let the President become a Hitler wannabe. We won't!

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I may have the courage, but I am also unsure, because I've never lived under those sort of circumstances...

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Honestly? I doubt it. I think I'd be more of a "live to fight another day" type.

Full disclosure: My family is Jewish. My sister is a Rabbi. She and I were discussing the Shoah, and the brave non-Jews who were persecuted or did righteous things. I asked her what she would have done - hide what we are? (we're very "Aryan" looking); or would you have continued being openly Jewish and letting the chips fall where they would? She states she would not have hidden what/who she was. I said I would do anything to stay alive, including lying about what/who I was. And, then I felt ashamed. She said I shouldn't feel ashamed. Many hid so that they could survive to tell the tale.

There is no wrong or right answer in these situations. Each would act according to his/her own situation and values. For me, life is the most sacred thing; so I would go to any lengths to protect it.



Quality of life improves enormously when we can all cheerfully abuse each other.

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Pjwbur, I am just like you. I'll tell you my story. I was born in Bosnia. In Bosnia there were ca. 33% Serbs, 33% Croats and 33% Muslims. I am a Croat, a Bosnian Croat. When the war started and the Serbs took power over the region where we lived, my parents had to pretend that we are a Serbian family. Many of our friends didn't do that, they openly expressed that they are Muslims or Croats, and they were either killed or tortured or raped... My family stayed alive and unharmed, even though we had to hide and verbally denounce our ethnicity/religion. We simply had to... And I would do the same again!!!!

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I'm not finished watching the film, I am watching it in a film class at school. I honestly would not know if I had the courage she did, her story is unbelievable. I respect her so much.

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[deleted]

I have courage but i'm not stupid. Sophie died becos she was a moron...end of story. But then again...he most likely would been gangraped by soviet soldiers and then maybe killed.

So dying by guillotine was maybe faster way to die.

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Impossible to say. If I had the knowledge I have today, then yes. But of course I was not born during the Weimar years, if I was born in the Weimar Republic my cultural background would have been completely different, and my sense of knowledge would of course have been limited to that sociological background. Therefore it's impossible to determine how you would have acted.

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Very Hypothetical yet interesting question which cannot be answered until in the given situation of course.

Would I die for my believes? Stand up to the them even under the most gruesome torture?

Sitting here, in the comfartable walls of my home, a warm cup of tee beside me and the wonderful feeling of perfect health inside my body, I would have to so no.

The Situation in which peope overcome thier fear of pain and death are also extraordinary. Most of us here cannot comprehend what it means to do something like Sophie Scholl did, live in the world she lived in.

What does it take to truly and without/or even with fear fight and sacrifce yourself if neccesary?

Maybe FDR had the answer when he said:

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself -- nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance."

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I like going against the flow at times,so maybe,but also not sure.I think it would've been a different story if Sophie knew beforehand that she would be beheaded for doind what she did,as the movie shows that she is somewhat surprised at her death sentence,like she was only especting prison time instead,or perhaps that was just the movie.She was incredibly strong through it all though.I think if I was in the same situation,I would react the same,I would not panic as there is nothing I can do to change things and might as well just appreciate the short time I have left instead of just throwing a tantrum, as I would be dying anyway.

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Yalmuk, for what you just said I actually really hope you burn in hell. You make me sick you piece of *beep*

"Uzi like a metal dick in my hand, magazine like a big testicle gland"

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I would have the courage to stand for what I believed in if I knew that it would make a difference like it did in Sophie's case. I wouldn't die without a cause. Sometimes it would be better to lie and fight another day, than tell the truth and die without impact.

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There are a lot of people who know it's the right thing to do, and perhaps tell they would, but just wouldn't cause they hadn't got the guts.
And I don't necessarily mean that they'd be afraid of the execution (though of course a lot'd be), but, I dare say, even more of the social exclusion. There'd be a hell lot of people who know what's right and who, as strangers, 'd say they'd do, but in the situation wouldn't just because they don't want to loose what they have. Humans are highly social. If they grow up in peace and equality, that is a fine trait with outweighting benefits, but in a totaliterian regime it gets a dark side. Most of you, I dare say, would not want to destroy the shallow "niceness", would not want to loose your neighbourhood and society, and would, even if you knew what's going on, never ever admit it as long as you don't need to, as long as it doesn't happen to you, your family or close friends. And that's the point in most of the resistance in the Nazi regime.
Most people wouldn't open their eyes as long as it's more comfortable to keep them closeded and pretend to be asleep. Get what I mean?

I don't say this applies to all humans. Nor do I claim that, if it does, it is particulary social (though it is definately the shadow side of human social behaviour) in the sense that people who don't conform are antisocial in any way.
In fact, what I am trying to say is that though almost all people know it's wrong, most wouldn't resist, for reasons I just mentioned.

BUT, I'm dead sure they would not apply to me.
Not because I'm better or worse, more social or less social, more clever or less clever, more individual or less individual. I simply am no conformist, in fact I'm anti-conformist in any way.
That not only means that I'd have resisted. That also means that I would have never fit in any kind of totaliterian regime and that I'd be persecuted, that I'd be outcast, that it wouldn't need to hit my friends or family because it would somehow hit me, that I'd never be able to close my eyes anyway.


You know, my paternal great-grand-father was putting up resistence (for example, he was part of a group who rescued some bridge). Now you might say that "I'm clinging to my "good" ancestors" or that I'd simply admire him, but neither is the case.
And this would seem plausible to you, since some lines of my family were indeed, more or less passively, supporting Hitler. But I don't try to judge now, I don't try to say which ancestor of me is good or better, I just know myself better than you do.
Trust me, there are a lot of people who'd do that (kling to their "good ancestors"), but I'm not one of them.
My great-grandpa was no angel. He was a gambler and drunkyard, was known for a rather bad temper, but he also was interested in philosophy, psychology and art. He was one of these restless, egocentric, rebellious persons who, even if they care for a close friend or two, simply don't care for society as a whole.
And as such, it isn't bragging but rather honest when I admit I'm somehow one of them.
And I'm a very social person. I'm a pensively person who can't stand any form of cruelty or inequality. I spend most of my thoughts to topics such as world poverty, supression of ethnical minorities, destruction of nature and so on.
But this is not the reason I'd put up resistance. Because if it was, anyone in any injustice would.
And that is my point: anyone is individualist. Anyone hates injustice. Anyone wants world peace. Anyone is, somewhere deep down in heart, also totally good.
But they are willing to supress it in order to conform to social norms.
That I wouldn't (and I really know I wouldn't) conform has nothing to do with good or evil, but with the fact that I AM simply not normal and will never BE conforming to social norms.
This doesn't mean "Oh, I so'd want to be normal, I'd do anything to fit in I just can't" nor "Normality sucks, because I simply chose to be different". No. I couldn't even tell you what is "unnormal" on me because nothing really is (I look normal, I'm not handicapped in any way, I'm no minority in the broader sense), I just AM. It just means: "Normality is not an option so I'll simply live according my own values and dreams, and I better make good use of the time that I can live that way since I know that even in a free society as now, any moment somebody'll loose his head and kill me because I'm simply insufferable." Neither more nor less.

Does anything I just wrote make any sense to you?




I`m not talking to myself- myself just won`t stop talking to I!

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[deleted]

By this point in history, people were pretty well imprisoned in Germany. They were at war with everyone, there was no place you could just go to get away from all the problems, even if you didn't mind leaving everything you owned behind. And the government wouldn't let people leave - it must have been much like the Soviet Union. Just trying to get out was as much as admitting that you were an "enemy" and would get you arrested. Sneaking out on foot? Where could you go? The war was everywhere, and I'm sure the borders with Switzerland were well guarded.

It got worse as the war got closer to Germany, and in the end people weren't even allowed to escape from Berlin as the Russians got closer; the whole population became sort of hostages. But even before the war, just leaving Germany was not as easy as people today, in free countries, might imagine. There were serious controls on removing assets; when Fritz Lang left, he had to smuggle his money out in several trips to France, and by getting other people to carry things for him. Lots of the Jews who escaped in 1933 when the Nazis took full power had to abandon everything and go penniless to other countries. The Nazis were just like the Communists - they didn't allow people to just freely go wherever they wanted.

Flat, drab passion meanders across the screen!

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[deleted]

I would do it, and wouldn't hesitate. I actually dream of being able to do what Sophie did.

Now, if I were Probst and had a wife and 3 kids, I don't think I'd be able to do it in that case.

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[deleted]

I think the thing is that the Scholls and the others were in a pretty unique situation. It's a rare example of going against overwhelming odds with not much more then conviction and paying the ultimate price. There is a risk a soldier takes when they go to a war, that they might not come back. They were kind of civilian soldiers as resistance folks so on one level they had to know the risks.

I've never been in a situation where my conviction would be tested, I am pretty stubborn though so who knows how I would behave in a similar situation.

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I hope to visit their grave this summer, and yes I will cry, having just written a string quartet in her honor- she's been on my mind for the past year. I have asked myself a million times whether I could be as brave as them. I think knowing their story gives a person a little more belief in themselves that they (I) might have the courage, if just thinking about her. What heroes they were. The honor and respect and love cannot be overstated for these incredibly courageous young people. Their brave souls will never ever die, and truly they did not die in vain.

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