Does anyone have empathy for Phoebe in her madness - Sorry, Haters (2006) Discussion

[–] authorNYSE 18 years ago

Yeah but since religion can't be proven. Anyone who commits a heinous act with so-called religious justification (e.g. 9/11) would make them also mentally ill in believing their faith as fact. You'd also have to empathize with those people as well for their mental illness, which I doubt many would.

To me people like Phoebe are fully aware of what they're doing. They cannot dip in and out of insane behavior and not be sane to begin with.

aN:

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[–] Jenny_Kay 17 years ago

So she could be a sociopath, rather than a psychopath. I didn't really think she was psychotic.

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[–] yossarian100 17 years ago

I had a great deal of empathy with Phoebe. I think that's one reason her character works so well. If you can't feel her pain, you won't understand what she's doing or why she's doing it...but if you can't feel Phoebe's pain, you're just not paying attention.

"There is no Kirk but Kirk and Spock is his science officer"

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[–] Pamactress 17 years ago

No empathy is coming from my direction.

My ability to feel sympathy and understanding towards others ends when it comes to people who cause pain and suffering to babies, innocent people, and animals.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Flowbeer 17 years ago

So, what does Phoebe do, does she blow up innocent women, children & animals? (I have not seen it, so if you could tell me, while first typing "SPOILERS", that would be cool!
Thanks -

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[–] juxtapose70 17 years ago

I had no sympathy for Phoebe, only amazement that Robin Wright Penn always manages to hone her characters so well.

I have no empathy for the character of Phobe anymore than I would Ted Bundy. Neither are insane. Phobe is a sociopath. She is bitter and alone and it has left her numb--so numb that she can stab a fork in her hand without wincing and cut herself without evidence of any pain. She takes her own decisions in life and her own problems out on the world. In this case, the Muslim world. Someone mentioned she was a "Calvinist back in Michigan". A Calvinist is a strict Christian religion. So, when Phoebe decides that she wants to play god in the aftermath of 9/11, she does so with precision and fervor. That's not worthy of my empathy. Her whole world is a creation of her and by her. She is no better than the terrorists who brought down the WTC. And I think THAT was the point being made. That relgious hatred and repression can come in all forms. And they can also lead to violent acts of bizarre behaviour. But she was NOT schizophrenic. She was the absence of a conscience.

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[–] pancake_repairman 16 years ago

the movie kept pulling me back and forth between sympathizing with her and not, i guess that's what makes it a "psychological thriller", the twists. but in the end she has a chance to redeem herself and she doesn't, see i guess the ending defines her as beyond help. it mostly left me wanting to hear the writer/director's answer to whether he sympathizes with the character. he'd probably just give a runaround answer though.

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[–] funspbycynthia-1 15 years ago

I had no sympathy/empathy until I read the posts on this board. Then I started to understand her more, I think. She is definately a character you love to hate. Unless you're a psycholigist type, and then you see things in too many shades of gray. Thing is, in religion, God still loves Lucifer or Satan. Even the worst of the worst is still a part of the human condition. We have to find out what parts of us make us tick. Like Susan Smith who drowned her 2 kids and then played the media etc.. Why do we do things like Hitler, Charles Manson, and Dahmer? Understanding (hopefully) leads to preventing. With understanding naturally comes a kind of sympathy or empathy. That doesn't mean letting them off, but that the punishment fits the crime. The greatest of us and the least of us affect the whole of us. Part of the problems of the world is instant dismissiveness and stereotyping of ppl and groups that breeds hate and intolerance.
Regardless of how evil/screwed up she was, she needed to either get help or be removed or something. The beauty of the cab driver was he was curious, he just wanted to understand her if he could. That's why he fell under her spell over and over. He let her lead him because he was grasping for understanding. He had faith in goodness and hoped he could find it in her. He was trying to practice his faith and trying to be forgiving and loving to help her too, as he needed help with his problems too. He was destined to die sooner or later, but at least he died being a giving and forgiving being. He may have had probems in his life situation, but his soul was rich. Her's was the opposite and as in nature, nature hates a vacuum and opposites attract.

~Hollar, don't hit- Mr Ed~

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[–] ehaas-3 11 years ago

Sympathy in the sense of pity for such a disturbed and miserable person; yes. Sympathy is the sense of cheering for her and wanting her to get away with hurting people; no.

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[–] emo_ville2002 15 years ago

I personally wouldn't give a person a free pass to kill or harm others simply because they are 'ill'. Mental illness as a defense is the main reason why so many killers literally get away with murder and are languishing in prisons, their illness protects them.

I guess I have a very low tolerance level for such people because I've know more than few sociopaths and psychopaths throughout my life, The destruction these sick individuals have caused to others was something out of a movie. One person is still running amok causing more problems, because a person involved was too scared to press charges. There was no death involved, but extreme physical violence which required extensive surgery.

btw, the person inflicting the violence was a woman, so this movie really hit home. Yes, there are females who can and do inflict extreme violence upon men, we don't hear much about it, but it does happen.

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[–] Spacer1 12 years ago

Only empathy in a general sense, for the way she described how her co-worker responded to the events of 9-11. After 9-11 there was very briefly a strong sense that things would change and maybe everyone would somehow magically bond together and be a stronger people and nation with everyone lifting each other up. Obviously, that is nothing but a delusion. The only thing that changed was security at the airports and an increased collective hatred of muslims. The president told people to return to normal and go out and shop at the stores. Then he chose to use this as an excuse to invade Iraq and only continued to push the politics of division. The 9-11 momentum we had for change was squandered and now it's as if it never happened. Phoebe wants to return to the time when people were forced to let their guard down and stopped sweating the day-to-day. For that alone, I have empathy.

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[–] 11 years ago

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