The plot of this film is exactly something Michael Moore did on his old show The Awful Truth. He took a guy who was laid off from a GM plant in the States to Mexico to try to get a job there. Moore should get some kinda story credit.
But, he won't get credit. He doesn't deserve anything. The only thing he made a mistake in making was Fahrenheit 9/11. Full of lies and one-sided views, I can't believe people bought into it. And don't think I'm a Republican. I'm an Independent.
share[deleted]
Bill has become strangly silent.
Psychos don't explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a *beep* how crazy they are!
You know why people diss Michael Moore? Because no one has proved him wrong and they can't deal with the fact that he is right on most everything and they don't want to admit that our government is corrupt as corrupt as any out there.
I think it frightens weaker minded people to come to terms with the fact the good ol' USA is just as bad as anyone else so they deny it and lambaste people like Moore who is only telling the truth. Sort of like if God was proven not to exist people would melt down. but face it Moore dissers we live in a corrupt country, big time corrupt. Probably if we really learned of all that is going on we would be horrified.
Ok now to the movie, this should be funny as hell. Vince and Owen trying to get there jobs back. I worked at a factory once and the owner was moving it to Colombia, and I asked him if I could move there too, help teach people how to run the machines. he said sure if I wanted to work for a buck a day in hellish conditions ( good old Republican capitalism at it's finest). I was like "No not really" So my job went to Colombia. This was in 1987 they weren't as diligent in stoping sweatshops.
No proof that he lied about anything in that movie?
Do me a favor. Read this:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
And then read this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5335853/site/newsweek/
pathxe --so everyone who likes bush is simple minded, and can't wrap their heads around the liberal truth shining like a star from whatever communist meeting you're typing this from? seems you're the one working in the factory, running a machine, whilst i am the one with the degree. and...hold on...i'm a republican, i hate michael moore, and while i didn't actually contribute anything to the bush campaign (not even a sign or bumper sticker), i still managed to get a great job without having my life destroyed by our republican overlords. it seems to me that while democrats bitch and complain non stop about abysmal factory jobs fleeing south of the border, republicans still have their jobs, republicans still have pensions, and republicans our looking to the future. all you have to look forward to with your michael moore loving agenda is another humiliating defeat...but maybe this time we'll see hillary(sp) lose? all we have to look forward to is maybe giuliani...maybe rice...but certainly more than enough to keep republicans in the white house. that shouldn't matter to you though...why not head over with moore to china, or maybe cuba or north korea? have fun commie!
shareA few months ago, R.E.M. had a gig in my town (I live in Zagreb,Croatia). And at the begining of the concert Michael Stipe said: "I don't want you to judge american people by the acts of their goverment." And excuses like that, to me are starting to get worn out. And even more so, when I see a statetment like yours.
What are you saying?
>> i'm a republican, i hate michael moore, and while i didn't actually contribute anything to the bush campaign
>> (not even a sign or bumper sticker), i still managed to get a great job without having my life destroyed by
>> our republican overlords. it seems to me that while democrats bitch and complain non stop about abysmal
>> factory jobs fleeing south of the border, republicans still have their jobs, republicans still have pensions,
>> and republicans our looking to the future
Are you saying that if you're not a republican you will not have this kind of privilegies? Are you saying that if someone elses life isn't going the way they want, it is beacouse they have different opinion? To me that seems like the faschist way. Maybe i'm wrong. Are you a faschist? Do you know what faschism is? The strategy of the faschists is blaming everything on the communism. And suprise, suprise, you are also talking about the communism. What do you know about the communism?
Before our country became indipendent, we were living in communism, so i know about down side of that system of the gouverment. And you know what? At this point the gouverment that you are so proud of, isn't very far from the communists thinking: The gouverment ownes everything. And maybe you are not aware of it, but gouverment ownes you!
The same *beep* that are sending your young people to war, are chickensh*** that were using every possible way to get away from the front line in Vietnam. How many sons and daughters of the senators, gouverners and b****es like that, are in Iraq or in Afghanistan? None! And you know why? Beacouse there is and there will always be people like you, who will follow their leaders and support their efforts (witch are ALWAYS for their own benefit, hidding under some naive, irrelevant and untrue facts and greater cause), no matter what are the costs. Let's free Iraq and their people! Aha,yeah,aha. If you are so eager to free someone, why don't you set free the North Korean people? Do you know what is going on there? The children there are starving to death, litteraly, while their gouverment is buying uranium and great percent of their state budget goes for financing their army. Why are they beeing less important? Beacouse they haven't got any OIL!
Bush is an ignnorant, stupid, alcoholic bully and it wouldn't matter to me and to the rest of the world if the guy isn't the president of the most powerful country (in politics, as well as economics), at the same time. So people of one of the greatest and most beautifull countries in the world, the United States of America, unite and stop this abuse of your thoughts and principles!
peace out
Okknad
A za hrvate koji slucajno nalete na ovaj thread: Ni mi nismo bolji. Stovise, jadniji smo od njih, imamo manje para i jednako nas iskoristavaju ove pizde kao i njih. U 3 picke materine, koje smo mi ljudi budale, nemogu vjerovat.
dude, as proven in our last presidential election a few months ago, most of our nation's citizens APPROVE of George W. Bush. Regardless of what Croatians and all other Europeans, not to mention the world, think of him, most of us here in the USA like him.
Sure, we know he has some shortcomings, but we elected him anyway because we thought he would be better than John Kerry.
Respect our decision and get over it.
Most Americans don't care what you think about our president. It's our choice. Not yours. You're entitled to your opinion. But please, don't pretend like people care about what you think.
I mean no offense. It's just that...you're from Croatia. You're not going to change anybody's mind here in the USA.
And as for Michael Moore. To say he made a slanted documentary which is basically propaganda is an understatement. He's a sore loser and a conniving little cuss. Not to mention a sore loser.
Respect our decision and get over it.
Most Americans don't care what you think about our president. It's our choice. Not yours. You're entitled to your opinion. But please, don't pretend like people care about what you think.
I mean no offense. It's just that...you're from Croatia. You're not going to change anybody's mind here in the USA.
This is your statement. OK. Now replace the words:
Americans - Iraquies, Cubans, Vietnamies, Serbs, Afghanis, etc.
Croatia - USA
USA - Iraq, Cuba, Vietnam, Serbia, Afghanistan, etc.
Now, read it out loud and tell me what do you think?
Try to imagine this plot:
There is some other great country in the world that is more powerfull than United States in every possible way. But, they do not like the way your gouverment acts, so they decide to cut any relationship with your country. Then, one day, out of the blue, that country decide to mess with your homeland just to overthrow your president and "free" your people. They start to bomb your oilfields, shopping malls, stadiums, kill your people and create a military zone from Canada to Mexico. What would you think about that country.
Dude, german people in 1920's, 1930's and 1940's, looked at the Adolf Hitler the same way you look at GWB. Luckly, HALF (and not MOST as you stated) of USA citizens do not approve of GWB, otherwise there could be some history repeating.
Jebote, koji se kurac ja uopce tu zivciram, kad se tipovima kao ti ne moze nista dokazati jer su im vec previse isprani mozgovi.
I will stop now, beacuse ignorants like you make me very, very nervous, and that is not good for my health. So, in conclusion, despite your superiority over other nations, i feel sory for you and your fellow-countryman, beacouse your goverment is using you to make other peoples life miserable and you can not see that. My deepest sympathy.
Look, my Croatian friend, your English is decent but your thinking is flawed.
First of all, MOST, yes MOST, people do, in fact, approve of GWB. Most voters at least. In the 2004 election, a majority of the voters voted for Bush. Not much more than half, but more nevertheless.
Why do you assume that the government is secretly doing things that we don't approve of? We put Bush's administration in office in 2000. For 4 years he showed us what he could do with the job, and in 2004 we showed that we want to keep him around. We knew what he was doing. We saw how things were going in Iraq. We reelected him anyway. Nobody's "using" us to make other people's lives miserable. Nobody's tricking us.
I don't know how it works in Croatia. Maybe that makes me "ignorant". You probably know more about my nation than I know about yours. But here in America, the president has certain powers. GWB doesn't abuse it. If he did, he'd be impeached, because that's illegal.
Your little hypothetical situation makes a good point. And yes, it would stink if some other bigger nation imposed itself on the US. But hey, that's how it is. Forgive me for being a capitalist. Country's with power get to use it. Not everything in the world is "fair". It's called social-darwinism. That which is most fit, survives. In this case, we're talking about nations. The US is the most fit, most powerful nation, so it gets what it wants.
You may not like it, because you're not an American. It doesn't sound "fair" to me either. I'm just glad I live here.
Maybe you should move.
by the way, comparing GWB to hitler is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Believe it or not, we have history classes here in america. So we know a thing or two about Hitler. You can't get away with saying GWB is like him. That's flat out stupid.
If you hadn't noticed, Sadam Hussein IS a lot like Hitler. They're both into dicatatorships and genocide. They have a whole lot more in common than bush and hitler. That's why Bush took him out. Maybe you should thank him. Because he made sure history didn't repeat itself. Bush like Hitler? That's hilarious.
aint' you a VERY special little man, with a VERY special little mind, living in a VERY special little country. oh, you are so SPECIAL! WOW! You are AWESOME!
You are like, like... ...like an aryan! Oh god. Can i be your slave?
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I can't belive how could you be so stupid. Or blinded.
The biggest computer manufacturers in the world are in Asia beacouse of your greedy capitalist and corrupted politicians. I don't want to scare you, but if things continue to go this way, in 10 or 20 years there will be no jobs left for you, your family or your friends. If you think that you will live in some kind of colonial aristocracy, think again.
What more can i say than: "Good luck with your globalization. We will see where will it take us ALL!" And god, i hope i'm wrong. EOD
So it's been 11 years since this post, I just wanted to say. We still have jobs and going strong. LOL
share"Most Americans don't care what you think about our president."
-spin-fu
but the fact is, we should. we had a great reputation in the world and george w. bush has done away with that. america used to be respected. we shouldn't have to come up with excuses like the one that r.e.m. said. but the fact is, we have to.
No worries man, I'm a freakin Liberal! and I think Moore is no better than right wing nuts, he's just the other side of the spectrum, which makes him just as bad. But some people think since he's SO in the opposite direction, it's OKAY to be that way.
I personally think forcing your views on others, good or bad, is NEVER the right thing to do, which is why I don't get the fake war in the Middle East this time around. So what if someone doesn't like "Democracy", but "forcing" your views on them, you're defeating the whole ideas behind "Democracy"!
Back to the main topic, who cares about Michael Moore, I'm sure he'll find something else to cry about.
Why don't you kill yourself, you right wing piece o' crap.
You lost!
I shoulda known this would have started a debate about Moore, whioch was not my intention.
To Bill, you claim to be no Republican, but your choices of sources tells a different story. Maybe you're not registered Republican, as neither I nor Moore are registered Democrat. But you do quote hardcore conservative sources. This Dave Koppel completely misrepresents Fahrenheit and Moore, and facts outside the movie. Have you even seen Fahrenheit? I love it when people denounce it, when they didn't see it. All they get are conservative mishcaracterizations of the film. Here are the list of deciets in his list of deceits.
http://delaware-dem.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/6/1942/00222
http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/6/125810/5754
http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/6/125810/5754
http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/7/175530/4378
http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/8/18424/43142
http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/9/1339/05561
http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/10/153142/328
Heya Ezert, did you even read those links??
The vast majority do not answer the critiques about 911 at all, most just make excuses... The ones that do answer -I should say the few I looked up- were completely false, and no booknotes were given by Kos, so I can't even look up his information...
Something like this...
"If the votes had been recounted using the limited methods advocated by Gore, Bush still wins.
If the votes had been recounted using the Bush method (i.e. not), Bush of course wins.
If all the votes had been recounted, using any method (individual standards in each county, or uniform standards in all counties), Gore wins."
That's just not true at all, in fact no truth at all behind it and it shows me that Kos didn't even bother readint the 5 or so independant studies comissioned by the New York Times, USA Today ABC, NBC and others.
But really you can just point to one falsity in 911 an it sums it up... Moore had to Photoshop a Newspaper to make it say what he wanted it to say... When asked about doing things like this, he stated the movie was a satire and satire doesn't need to be factual...
When you have to Photoshop something, you lose all credibility, simple as at...
I guess another great example would be when he cut condi rice's speech to make her say that Saddam and Osama collaberated on 911, without showing what she stated next, which was a complete explination of what she meant by that...
I have absolutly no problem against what Moore does, Roger and Me is probably my favorite Documentary...
But if you do care about the Truth in the film -if your watching it just for entertainment, then who cares... but here's a great scene by scene critique...
http://www.eppc.org/publications/pubID.2190/pub_detail.asp
psst, notice the bookmarks and links, you can check source info. I'm actually not a big fan of the 59 deciets link either, mostly I found it to be speculative. You may prefer this link also.
I have no clue why I even got into this... ha, it's late. But it's a shame, spreading stuff like this is gonna destroy the Democratic Party and I think that would be a horrible thing for America. Honest debate between two parties is vital, it's keep both parties in check. I think time and time again we see whichever party is in power, slowly becomes corrupt until the lower party takes over. This goes on throughout our history and we are the better for it. I mean just look at the Historical American Political scene, you see the parties going back and forth in power, and quite often changing drastically for the better of us all...
Well hope this helps some, truth is hard to find, but if you have an open mind and are willing to accept many of your beliefs are based upon false hood, then with a lot of luck and a lot work, truth usually comes your way.
Good Luck.
the movie being one-sided is the only valid critique of the movie. He barely did any talking, he let the scenes speak for themselves. yes, he did only show was aided his agenda, but there were no lies my friend, no matter what some conservative with their own agenda tells you.
dont be fooled by the election, people voted for bush cause they didnt like kerry and vice versa, we are blessed with a "lesser of two evils system. the truth is showin bush's latest approval rating being at 45 percent, so take your claim of a majority of the country approves of him and choke on the knowledge.
Michael Moore spends to much time complaining and not enough time participating, if everythings so screwed up why doesn't he run for president?
shareBecause he's a war profiteer, only concerned with lining his own pockets. The only thing more embarassing than Michael Moore are the patchouli-oil-smelling hippies who buy his act hook, line, and sinker.
sharepropaganda is propaganda my friend. How are you any better because you buy into a conservative agenda laid forth by people that are going to profit of their plans much more than you will. So are you saying that someone who listens to Sean Hannity is somehow not falling for his act, hook line and sinker are you so cleverly put it?
Michael Moore was interesting once: a paradoxical mix of stereotypical fat hick in the NRA and anti-gun liberal. Now it appears he's just a whore.
You're all wrong about everything.
The World has been screwed ever since the hunter gatherers started farming and became Whitey. We've been doomed for a long long time, and America is just the most recent epitome of the West, flooring the gas and accelerating us all towards our inevitable violent demise.
We hate America because we see all that we despise about ourselves within it.
In reality, we all suck.
Down with people!
I wanted to read about Outsourced not Michael 'barely scratching the surface' Moore..
PS: 911 was an inside job.
Michael is a flat-out trairor, who borders on being as idiotic as 9/11 Conspiracy Freaks like you! And no, 9/11 WAS NOT an inside job!!
BTW, Outsourcing is been a business practice that has occured before many of us were born.
Is it a good or a bad thing to be a trairor? I can't find a definition of the word in any english dictionary. You're not a foreigner are you? Mussy perhaps LOL
shareIs it a good or a bad thing to be a trairor?
With globalization we have to compete on the world stage. The world will always progress. So outsourcing is inevitable.The government isn't going to stop outsourcing because an protectionist policies will be met by protectionist policies from other countries.One of the problems is US has fell behind in too many areas. Japan pours billions into consumer technology. We pour billions into weapons. So of course we have a war,conflict,etc every few years. And Japan is a leader in automakers,technology,etc. US is losing its competitive edge.And we've become too dependent on non-productive industries instead of productive industries.
You can't restart an economy by pouring billions into the financial services sector. They don't produce anything.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.