Wash me????


What was the point of that scene???

"THAT'S LIFE"--Frank Sinatra a.k.a. Ol' Blue Eyes
Last Movie watched: Bobby

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there is no point. this is a terrible movie. heavy-handed and absurd. don't look for something that isn't there.

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Seriously, that line was ESPECIALLY incongruous. It takes the cake on "absurd". Throughout the movie we're shown the point of view of the oppressed 19th century woman, ok I can buy that. But then, after all her efforts to prove how she is equal to men in intelligence & skill, Beethoven suddenly tells her "wash me", AND SHE DOES IT! Like some common servant girl. Gawd, the director is more confused than I thought.

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[deleted]

You seem to have missed the context of the scene. Beethoven says, "WASH ME". It's a command (see English grammar: imperative tense). It's not a request, his voice is not entreating or gentle in any way, and he doesn't even say please. You can cite Asian cultures all day, but again you're trying to take the scene out of context for the sake of your argument. Beethoven's a 19th century German male commanding a 19th century German female to scrub his filthy bod. And she, like a good little peasant girl, does.

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little peasant girl? wow

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The whole movie is insulting to both Beethoven, and the viewers.

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No it wasn't

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I totally agree: this movie is insulting, at least to Beethoven's memory. I found the film horrible.

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Oh really? And why do you say that wishmaster? Do you even know the first thing about Beethoven or classical music? You can argue with my point, but you need to justify why you think I'm wrong.

The ultimate measure of a society is it's film industry.

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Imagine if the roles were reversed, like today: an older female composer has a young attractive male copyist, and commands him to wash her...

S :)

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[deleted]

I thought he wanted to feel a woman's touch, it showed a human perspective. Of course, we don't know if the relationship went any further, esp at the end where it shows his picture where she is and she just goes out the door. So lots of loose ends here.
Jan

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I initially had a similar reaction as other posters (a 19th century man asserting himself on his subservient 17th century woman servant - corrected century), but it didn't make sense.

Given his dialog up to it, my thought is that he appreciated her so much as a muse ("you're the key to my release"), that he wanted to be inmersed in her (being covered in grace). Putting the sexual harrassment aside, short of having sex, having her bath him seems the closest he could get to her (physically), before they come closer as musicians. Then she goes to write her own music, and he goes on to confront her fiance (actually releasing her from a subservient role, since she didn't like the bridge either), to write Grosse Fugue, and build bridges to connect men souls, and to the future.

As for the command vs request tone. For a genius, a "force of nature", the line between a request and a command is probably blurry.

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I had a completely different take on this scene. . . .yes, Beethoven did not say "please", yet it was not a command. And, Anna, with her quick insight into the man realized that his gruffness was a sham. He was begging for human contact, for a gently touch, for intimacy that was lacking in his life. He obviously could humble himself as he did in other scenes in the film, but in this scene Anna had enough sensitivity to see that he had pride, and yet she complied because she saw through him. Her humanity came through 100% Bravo for her!

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19th century actually - b/c it was 1800's .... think the number *after* the year you're talking of... we're in the 21st century b/c it's the 2000's....

anyway... zootie... i agree with you. b/c that's the only thing i could think when i saw the scene.... still when i think back on it, that's my only explanation.... altho the scene, for me, was awkward..... cuz he's old and she's young... i have expected him to do something gross to her, but he kept his distance... and b/c of that i liked Ed's portrayal of L. v. Beethoven :)





"I reject your reality and substitute my own"

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I think it's an incredibly intimate scene. Washing someone - like Mary Magdeline washing Jesus' feet is an act of love. Maybe one that can't be expressed in any other way. At that point they had an emotional relationship and no way of expression and he knew it, she did it because she realized it and acknowledged it.

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I think in some sense it was the closest thing to understanding and companionship the two characters could have. I think it was poorly executed but the idea is that Beethoven, who routinely just douses himself with water, yields to Anna, who has proclaimed him to be a brute. He wants to please her, as she does him. The washing scene is a compromise of sorts. It also serves as the only source of intimacy between the two and in a sense, aside from the music, represents him not only bearing his soul to her, but also his body. I think it could have been handled a little better, but the meaning is there.

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"What was the point of that scene???"

Yikes, am I the only one who saw that as sensual? The longing of a lonely but brilliant musical genius who wants to be physically touched by someone who cares about him AND music?

And WHY did she do it? Read the above again. Obviously she cared about him more than she cared about the bridge-builder boyfriend.

Can't believe that is so HARD to fathom.

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It is pure sex.

Oscar from Rosario City
Argentina

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Hallo,

there is just one reasonable explanation for this scene: From now on the neighbour living in the flat under Beethoven's flat will not get drenched any more.


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Bravo, Musikdrama.

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Hell's bells. Can the audience here be any thicker? Twice we were shown the splashing of water downstairs interrupting the neighbors' meal. It's practically a motif. We know every motif has to lead to somewhere, or to prove a point. It's screenwriting 101.

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Beethoven couldn't give a toss what anyone thought of him! If the neighbours' meals were getting drenched in his water, tough! He would have probably said that artists should not be bothered with such mundane matters lol!

The Last Master

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