MovieChat Forums > Copying Beethoven (2007) Discussion > Horrible, horrible film

Horrible, horrible film

posted 16 years ago by damianmead
22 replies | jump to latest

Beethoven's life and work were astounding enough without needing to be fictionalised. Merely because he is dead does not mean it is open slather to slander him.
Things which irritated me to the point of anger...

The accents. Phylidia Law's english accent to Ed Harris and his broad American accent. The choice of modernising the language. Yes, it may have been a conscious decision but a poor one nonetheless.
Beethoven's ability to hear whispers when the narrative called for it.
I always felt Harris was moments away from calling someone dude.

The writers and directors seem to lack the sensitive hand to tell an real story or truly explore the man so they choose to make sensationalist and simplistic drivel.

Beethoven frantically strode around the stage during the first performance of the 9th desperately trying to hear the music. If the directors can't find enough pathos, passion and beauty in those moments they should abandon film making altogether.
I wish them luck on their journey to recognise the difference between a comic book and a film.

I'm dumbfounded why they even made this nonsense.

[–] eblackadder3 16 years ago

Relax.
Anybody who is interested enough to watch this film very likely is familiar with Beethoven's life and works. I am fully aware the film is almost total fiction, but I enjoyed it anyway.

[–] John_Titor_2036 16 years ago

This film was awful and Ed Harris made a mockery of Beethoven. It can't get any worse now.

[–] TudorLady 16 years ago

We're really divided on this one aren't we? I'm in the 'I enjoyed it' camp (with reservations about 'wash me' and 'fartissimo!') Let's face it, Beethoven was a genius, his music is sublime but the man himself was flawed (as are we all) and I think the film went some way towards showing that. Some of his personal habits left much to be desired! Finally, in my humble opinion the scene showing the premiere of the 9th symphony (no,I know he didn't really conduct) was reason enough for me to watch the film. Wonderful!!

[–] pinmv 16 years ago

>>I always felt Harris was moments away from calling someone dude.<<

Ohh, sorry, that one got me.

Meantime, not the best movie I've ever seen, but had a moment or two. I guess they had to make this guy someone famous so everyone would get into it, and then they just carted everyone away in a buggy. :)

[–] thejayblrd 16 years ago

On the contrary jancampbell, the scene with the 9th symphony is the precise reaon to NOT EVER watch this film.
The directing of this scene was terrible, with the ridiculous zooming in at the climactic moment. It was so cheesy.
And do i even have to mention that there was a young woman showing Beethoven how to conduct the piece? And the fact that they had Beethoven himself as the conductor? I mean, just a little bit of historical accuracy would have been nice at some point.

[–] TudorLady 16 years ago

I was referring to the music. I did actually mention that I am aware Beethoven did not conduct and I'm sure he would rather have died than allow a woman to do so. I just really enjoyed the music. I have never been fortunate enough to attend a Beethoven concert, (one day, I hope) so to experience the SOUND of the music in the cinema was, for me, wonderful. I have a few documentary DVDs which give me all the historical accuracy I need and I was under no illusions that this film would do that. I stand by my opinion (which, I would never presume to force on anyone else) the portrayal of the 9th symphony, with all it's glaring innacuracies, was wonderful.

[–] TudorLady 16 years ago

Just been to my first concert - The Scottish Symphony Orchestra playing the 9th symphony. Absolutely wonderful!!
Still like the film lol!

[–] frere_egide 16 years ago

You pretentious poseur... Do just a bit of research and you will discover that Beethoven himself conducted the premiere of the 9th Symphony. And, since he could not hear, he had a colleague conduct him from the wings. Please, don't pontificate about things you know nothing about.

[–] TudorLady 16 years ago

Yeah I'm just a pretentious pontificating poseur, nice bit of alliteration, (even if it is c**p)

The premiere of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony was conducted by Michael Umlauf (1781-1842). Viennese conductor and Kapellmeister at the Karntnertor theatre. Beethoven was at his side to give him the beat. However, Umlauf had warned the choir and orchestra to pay no attention to the composer, who was so deaf that he could not hear the thunderous applause. Enough research for you?

[–] frere_egide 16 years ago

Not quite. Look at the program for the concert: Beethoven is listed as Music Director, and Umlauf is not mentioned. Beethoven conducted - if he had not been the conductor, then why was it necessary to tell the orchestra not to follow him? Umlauf assisted Beethoven, as he had done at the premiere of Fidelio. And the incident in which the woman turned Beethoven to the audience to receive the applause is genuine, further demonstrating his presence on the podium.

[–] TudorLady 16 years ago

Nov 1822 - Beethoven tried to conduct the dress rehearsal of Fidelio. He threw the singers and orchestra completely off the beat and into the greatest confusion. Schindler had to inform Beethoven of his failure and he fled the theatre in despair. Schindler wrote, "He never wholly recovered from the effect of this blow."

However Beethoven's productivity was unaffected by the knowledge that, just as he could no longer play the piano in public, so he could no longer conduct. He wrote to Ferdinand Ries in London in Dec 1822, "Thank God, Beethoven can compose - but I admit, that is all he is able to do in this world."

1824 - Premiere of the 9th Symphony - Michael Umlauf shared conducting duties with Shuppanzigh. Beethoven stood turning the pages of his score and beating time. He had to be turned around at the end by Caroline Unger because his timing was so out that he didn't realise the orchestra had stopped playing.

As for being listed as Music Director on the programme, if the Maestro had insisted on this can you imagine anyone arguing with him?

[–] grumpy736-1 16 years ago

I don't know why I'm bothering to add a comment -- oh, maybe because I hate to see nonsense go unanswered. For heaven's sake it is a MOVIE in which very talented actors, very beautiful ladies, and a director whose cinematography is sheer genius -- every frame of the film could be cut and enlarged and hung in a museum -- IT WASN'T MEANT AS A DOCUMENTARY !!!!! It was an excellent taste of the place and time and of Beethoven's music. Wonderful, wonderful, film. Bravo, bravissimo! Kudos to Ed Harris and Diane Kruger and the director whose name escapes me.

I miss Big Band music and talented singers. Leonard Cohen is my idol. Civility, harmony, unity!

[–] TudorLady 16 years ago

You'll get no argument from me. I was attacked and responded, I loved the film.

[–] shadycady 16 years ago

I really enjoyed this film too. I thought the acting was just great.

The Devine Genealogy Goddess!

[–] TudorLady 15 years ago

There is, unfortunately, a lot of snobbery in classical music. It's getting better but there are some dinosaurs who still feel that the great unwashed have no business to be showing an interest in it. That's one of the reasons in my humble opinion this film hasn't gone down that well in certain quarters. Yes it's innaccurate in many aspects but it shows how human Beethoven was, how unreasonable, how cranky and frankly unpleasant he could be at times. But it also shows what a genius the man was, to produce something as breathtaking as the 9th Symphony while completely deaf.

If this much-maligned film can introduce people, who had maybe never listened to his music, to the inspiring, breathtaking wonder that is Beethoven, that can only be a good thing surely? After all, it's very easy to learn more about him, there's not exactly a shortage of books about his turbulent life! (I recommend John Suchet's 'The Friendly Guide to Beethoven')

(It was great to see Sir Roger Norrington conducting Beethoven's Creatures of Prometheus and the Choral Fantasy at the Last Night of the Proms, and as usual, not wearing tails. Now he's no dinosaur!)

[–] voltape 15 years ago

I love aliterations! "pretentious pontificating poseur" I'll try to expand it. On the other hand, I just loved the film. Problem is that when we are dealing with serious, consecrated matters, say classical musich, painting, poetry, etc.. intellectuals see them one way and the hoi poloi (the ordinary people) see them the other way. In opera, e.g, Mario Lanza was berated for bringing opera to commercial films, and so Jose Iturbi and his piano, and recently the three tenors were chided by Alfredo Kraus, and now lovely Anna Netrebko is satanized for bringing popular beauty to opera, yet they have done more in favour of conveying good music to the masses (and in the process, keeping it alive)than many of the conservatives-approved artists.

[–] MarioRsr 15 years ago

Personally, I prefer "Immortal Beloved" and "Beethoven Lives Upstairs"

[–] JReb865 15 years ago

Tudor's pretentious, but you use the word pontificate and put a u in poser, you pretentious prick.

[–] TudorLady 15 years ago

Excuse me but how exactly am I pretentious? At least I don't resort to name-calling which is frankly childish.

Poseur (with a u) - A person who affects a particular attitude, character or manner to impress others.

[–] biskvito 15 years ago

in my lifetime I've seen 2 movies about Beethoven. I'm choosing not to count the dog movie. I think its not enough. I say do more! It may please some and displease others, but I don't assume this should be taken in consideration, otherwise no movie would ever be done.

[–] JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies 15 years ago

Things which irritated me to the point of anger...

The closest I get to that is when I encounter ignorant views like yours.

Is everyone in this house a total nutzoid or is it just me?

[–] lilit_esen 10 years ago

There are more bad things about this movie than what demianmead mentioned, but this is more than enough.I don't like the idea of fictonalizing historical figures' lives in general. They could have said 'inspired by work and character of Beethoven', and named it something completely different - it would have made more sense. But when you make a movie like this, it's as if you told a lie.