Apologies if this is already discussed elsewhere, but I'm a big fan of 'Immortal Beloved' and wondered whether anyone who has seen 'Copying Beethoven' thinks Ed Harris is a better LvB than the wonderful Gary Oldman?
shareas soon as we see it we will coment it to you
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Haven't yet seen 'Copying Beethoven' but am desperately looking forward to getting hold of the DVD, when it becomes available.
Have seen 'Immortal Beloved' and can't understand what anybody can like about that movie, except for the music excerpts.
'Immortal Beloved' is historically inaccurate & blatantly commercial - with it's exaggerated sex content. Beethoven hated his sister -in-law and referred to her as 'The Queen of the Night' - that villainous character from Mozart's 'Magic Flute'.
Do believe that 'Immortal Beloved' demeans Beethoven.
Certainly hope that 'Copying Beethoven' is better (than 'Immortal Beloved').
If you want to see something better relevant to Beethoven consider 'Eroica'. It's a BBC DVD; available at amazon.com.
'Eroica" is by no means very good, but it's certainly very much better than that horrible 'Immortal Beloved'.
'Immortal Beloved' is historically inaccurate & blatantly commercial - with it's exaggerated sex content. Beethoven hated his sister -in-law and referred to her as 'The Queen of the Night' - that villainous character from Mozart's 'Magic Flute'.
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Immortal Beloved was awful. Honestly.
shareYes, Beethoven did hate his sister-in-law, and Immortal Beloved clearly illustrates the fact on several occasions. (I think one of the lesser characters even states those precise words towards the beginning of the film.) Indeed, Bernard Rose's theory about the mystery woman is built on the very fact that he hated his sister-in-law. Why did he hate her? Forlorgn love (as illustrated in the film by the extensive sequences involving the Carlsbad hotel and so on). It's not that I necessary agree with him (in fact, I think it's a stretch), but your arguments against the film's thesis are irrelevant given Rose's reasoning. However, the extensive research by some Beethoven scholars such as Mayard Solomon have large holes in the relationship between the two, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
But I will say that I think Immortal Beloved had a misleading title, as I think the glory of the film rests not on its theory about Beethoven's romance, but on its gorgeous filmography and directing style, and (most of all) Gary Oldman's masterful portrayal of the infamous demeanor of the Maestro, and how that very demeanor relates to the music. It blew me away. If I was to given a cinematic introduction to someone who doesn't appreciate classical music, this would be it. I enjoyed Amadeus, but it's just not Immortal Beloved. As Roger Ebert said (paraphrased), "It's obvious that the people who made this film have Beethoven in their hearts."
I'm not sure if I'm going to see Copying Beethoven, because I simply can't fathom a way in which Ed Harris could produce a more compelling Beethoven than Gary Oldman (and the trailer didn't give me hope to the contrary). I know that's speculation (coupled with sheer opinion, as always in regards to taste), but alas...unless a friend or reviewer of discriminating taste sings its praises, I probably won't take the gamble.
To other people reading this who haven't seen Immortal Beloved, I do hope my aforementioned reasons will convince you to give it a shot. For me, the Ninth Symphony sequence alone is worth a full-price DVD.
Bernard Rose choice for his Immortal Beloved came from a quote from Beethoven himself, in which he said, "I am the bodily father of my late brother's son".
He used it in court for custody of Karl. If you want the name of the book that it is mentioned in, I can look it up. The book does not agree with the film's conclusions, just mentions the research done for all theories.
Don't know, but one thing Gary Oldman had going for him was being a trained concert pianist and performing his scenes with cotton stuffed in his ears so he'd play deaf... and Oldman has a good reputation for playing tormented characters and got the Beethoven scowl quite well.
shareI saw Immortal Beloved. And I for one loved it!
Gary Oldman is a Great Actor!
The Fresno Time Lord
Immortal beloved made Beethoven look really really bad, other than that it was a good movie, i am looking forward to this one.
sharei didn't think it made beethoven look bad. i loved immortal beloved and it only increased my love of beethoven - yes i realise it's not an accurate portrayal, but i thought the performances were incredible and the effect of the music was portrayed beautifully.
and just a side note - i don't believe Oldman is a trained concert pianist. It's stated very clearly on the special features that he took lessons every day to prepare for the role and the only time he's truly playing is the moonlight sonata scene.
To die, to sleep. To sleep, perchance to dream.
Ed Harris is to Beethoven as Kevin Costner is to Robin Hood.
Ed Harris is too American!
"So....'MANOS' the hands of fate!"
"Ed Harris is to Beethoven as Kevin Costner is to Robin Hood."
Very well-put :)
I've been an Oldman fan for a long ass time and I've always read his bios and they always said he taught himself to play piano for "immortal beloved"..
I absolutely love Oldman- he's one of the best actors ever. He completely becomes a character.so much so does he look and sound different that I've yet to find 1 person I know personally who automatically knows who Gary Oldman is until I give examples.
So its on that note that I admit that Immortal Beloved, tho MAYBE incorrect. I mean I don't KNOW since I wasn't alive to see Beethoven and his immortal beloved or to ask him. But I liked it.
Buuuut I don't see Ed Harris as an actor who could ever portray any character with accuracy.I haven't seen much of his acting, no, but what I have seen wasn't that awe inspiring. Except "eye for an eye". Plus as far as I know Harris is way too tall to portray Beethoven
Either way to ME no1 can out do Gary Oldman
"A little bit of cheesiness never hurt anyone!" * "QUIET ON THE SET!"
Gary Oldman's amazing performance in IB was just wasted because the film itself was so empty and full of holes. Most of you are just saying you won't like this movie solely because Ed Harris isn't Gary Oldman, I think this is unfair. Oldman and Harris are both very talented actors. To those who think Harris can't play historically accurate characters watch "Pollack" he was incredible in that movie. I for one will give this new movie a chance, until everyone has seen it though try not to pass judgement prematurely.
shareI'm passing judgement on his acting ability as a whole that I do know of. No I'm no ed harris fan enough to know his talents but what I have seen is not that great. Maybe for sake of seeing Harris's ability I'll check it out tho.
"A little bit of cheesiness never hurt anyone!" * "QUIET ON THE SET!"
Unfortunately I don't think it will be quite as good.
"Better to die standing than to live on your knees."
I can't imagine what you all adore in IB!Even tough Oldman is a great and talented actor,he doesn't save the movie.His talent was indeed a total waste on this film.
As for Ed Harris:they're very different actors,but he's as talented as Oldman,or even better.I've seen the movie,and have personally seen him act.When he was doing some parts of conducting the 9th Simphony,I was so touched by his talent for acting AND conducting music(not like Diane Kruger)
The story is fictional,but it still can move me.
Maybe I'm just partial... Or I know what very good acting is. Gary Oldman is so drastically different in movement, appearance, and voice/accent that at times one wouldn't know it was him. Take his role in True Romance.. He plays some white guy with dreds who thinks he's some reggae, or black guy lol
Ed Harris, so far as I have seen, acts in only 1 personality though he's wonderfull at showing emotion. Seriously though, if you have a movie for me that Ed Harris was in in which he completely transforms himself from outter appearance to behavior to accent, tell me about em.
"A little bit of cheesiness never hurt anyone!" * "QUIET ON THE SET!"
I think Ed Harris and Gary Oldman are two of the greatest actors alive today. I was not eanmored with "Immortal Beloved", but I am interested in seeing Harris's protrayal. But to call Harris too american is really no different than calling Oldman too British is it? They are both portraying a German living in Austria are they not?
shareMost of you are just saying you won't like this movie solely because Ed Harris isn't Gary Oldman, I think this is unfair.
Gethsemain wins the Pot !
Ed Harris is to Beethoven, what Kevin Costner is to Robin Hood. lol.
So true. Gary Oldman was born to play Beethoven, the likeness and personality similarities are uncanny; Gary Oldman is one of those rare actors who's fifty years behind his time, and THAT'S GOOD. Ed is the a$$ opposite of Beethoven, he pulls off militia, or even a derranged, alcoholic painter in Pollack, And if you might notice Ed IS BALD ! ! !
Have you seen the movie?
And have you ever heard about a wig before?
no i haven't seen the movie, and I hope you haven't either.
shareI haven't seen the movie yet,but I was involved in it,and I know what I'm talking about.
shareIt's overcooked SPAM, meathead, you could be the producer your'e still a moron. Men wore wigs only for ceremonial purposes, look at Benny Franklin. Beethoven WASNT BALD
You didn't understand me.All I said was that Ed was wearing a wig,that made him look like Beethoven.I wasn't talking about those grey wigs of the period!
And by the way,you should really work on your manners!
Have you seen the film??? Ed Harris is amazing in it! Why do we need to compere him and Oldman? Every movie is different and talks about a different aspect of Beethoven's personality and certainly talks entirely differently about genius and music. And where "Immortal Beloved" was a melodramatic biopic, "Copying Beethoven" is a deep journey into creation and the substence of music!
I've seen it, LOOOVED it, and recomend it!
If you've seen and loved "Immortal Beloved" go with an open mind and don't be prejudiced!
I completely agree with you!
sharecould all the bald people please GET OFF THIS BOARD ! ! Gary Oldman HAS HAIR ! ! ! Do you understand this??? Ed DOESNT! ! ! People with HAIR get JOBS ! ! Unless youre Jack Nicholson then you can be hairless and be GOD, because he's so COOL. eds a fruit.
shareWhy can't you understand this:it doesn't matter,if an actor has hair,or not!With a perfect realistic wig,he can look just like anybody else.Have you seen Tom Hanks in The Da Vinci Code?It's not his own hair he's wearing,it's one kind of a wig!He's got much less hair in reality!The same thing's with Ed!!!!!!!!
And what's this:"People with hair get jobs!"thing?
Oh,God!PLEASE,if you don't like this movie,YOU GET OFF THIS BOARD!!!!!!!And again:Try to think next time,before you open your mouth,and work on your manners!
banyaweb, at the risk of having you type a response in capital letters, with all due respect, I think that is Tom Hanks' own hair in Da Vinci. If it was a wig, he must have really liked it to wear it when he was on Inside the Actor's Studio. That being said, of course it should be irrelevant if an actor is bald. That's what make-up and wigs are for. What counts is talent and Ed Harris has that.
sharewhy dont you all see the film before you can comment. saw it today. ed harris was brilliant as beethoven. i wouldnt be surprised if harris is nominated for Independent Spirit, the Golden Globes or the Oscars for Best Actor. We all know he should have won for The Truman Show or Pollock.
shareWOTAPAIN!Yes,you're maybe right about Tom Hanks(sorry for the mistake:),but my point was that it really doesn't matter if an actor is bald,and there are wigs that can make an actor look just like it's his own hair.And the main point was what you said too:the only thing that counts is talent,and Ed really has it!
shareOh,and one more thing WOTAPAIN!I have to say that at least I can appreciate your response.here-49 could learn much from you about manners!
sharei didn't think it made beethoven look bad. i loved immortal beloved and it only increased my love of beethoven
Apologies if this is already discussed elsewhere, but I'm a big fan of 'Immortal Beloved' and wondered whether anyone who has seen 'Copying Beethoven' thinks Ed Harris is a better LvB than the wonderful Gary Oldman?
I enjoyed both movies...
I enjoyed Ed Harries and Gary Oldman.
and if I can suspend belief and allow for Harry Potter to attend Wizard school, or Spock to come from Vulcan, or Darth Vader to patrol the universe...I can allow for a female copyist...
those that think Anna was too stiff and unemotional...
I thought she was in total bliss while helping conduct the 9th symphony.
Oldman looks more like Beethoven, is a superior actor and 'Immortal Beloved' is a much better film. I have never heard of Anna Holst. She did not turn Beethoven around to acknowledge the applause and I'll have to research to see if she was indeed his copyist and to what extent, as well as her conducting the conductor. In reality, it was one of the orchestra members who turned Beethoven around, but that part of the film is a minor, albeit exceptional truth. Diane Kruger is a sweet, lovable Anna and a good actress but nothing else in this film got me interested. Karl plays a minor role in the film but a major part of Beethoven's actual life, although they often had disputes. I have read many books on Beethoven and this fictionalized account of the tender, yet platonic relationship between he and Ms. Holst is a bit hard to swallow.
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