Rape scenes not as discomforting because of gender reversal?

"i don't think it was brutal enough' - i agree!
The entire film seemed to be all surface, an essay or film theory article with a glossy magazine finish.
i don't necessarily think it's the gender reversal that is preventing you from identification, i think Kokkinos wanted that distance, which i think was wrong....... because if that's the case then the traditional gender roles are maintained.
Tom Long's performance, is really not so hot..... he has the same face expression through the aftermath and does not reveal anything about his character. i know that was the point of him not to be able to talk about it but GIVE US SOMETHING!!! The consequent distance from Daniel in the aftermath does not make up for the distance felt in the rape scenes. And the relationship with Isabelle is underdeveloped also.....
I was very dissapointed with the film, i was desperate to love it, i'm a big Kokkinos fan, and the film really did have potential.

Coupla comments... No not brutal enough in that His reaction didnt seem commensurate with a straight man being analy raped. Role reversal which Ana asked (in Brisbane Q&A) the audience to look beyond didnt work - my thinking is that had the lead been a woman there would have been a hell of a lot more inquiry as to where the hell she had been for 12 days and that it was only becuase he was a man that he was left to his own 'recovery'. Likewise I cant imagine a woman being so sexually active post-rape -no matter what her motives of discovery. Admittedly different people will react/respond differently. I recall when loaded/headon premiered in melbourne many were shocked and horrified. On the other side of the fence many gay men weren't - it was just another weekend at the Laird (?). I guess its all relative. Generally I thought the film was engrossing and yes Tankard's work shone through.
Posible fault - when Scacci's character asked someone to count I swear she said Gavin - which was the actors name (the guy who played the understudy) and not the characters name? anyone notice?

Mylo_Milk wrote:
"I felt guilty that I didn't feel the same level of distress for Daniel as I do seeing women in his position (I was very distressed by his ordeal, just not to the same degree). "

In my opinion, the gender of either perpetrator or victim is almost unrelated to a viewer's personal reaction to the rape scene. Depending on what film scenes to which you refer that depict "women in his (Daniel's) position", it is likely your reaction to the scenes will vary for each film's own setting.

I, not being familiar with more than the following rape-themed films, can see some variety of viewer reaction / director intention. The following titles, in reverse chronological order, can be a study of cinema's treatment of the whole rape theme, regardless of gender:
(1) JADED, 1996 (females rape female) -- recognising the female perpetrators' capacity for ongoing malice after the incident.
(2) THE ACCUSED, 1988 (males rape female) -- attempting to involve the numerous public bystanders in the courtroom pursuit of revenge.
(3) SHAME, 1987 (males rape females) -- revenge through the courtroom is a realistic option.
(4) EXTREMITIES, 1986 (male rapes female) -- physical revenge is within every victim's extremes of reaction.
(5) I SPIT ON YOUR GRAVE, 1978 (males rape female) -- like many films truly from a bygone era, physical revenge justifies a sexploitation classic!

Mylo_Milk, I'd love you to tell me where in the rape-theme cinema continuum you place THE BOOK OF REVELATION.
Cheers
i_p

There is a point being missed here. It is very difficult to rape a male while he is being brutalized unless it is anal or the male is a masocist and is aroused by pain and degregation.

The male has a certain performance to accomplish while the female can, if she cares to, become completely inert, read a book, watch TV, or eat an apple while engaged in the sex act.........

While I am sure that there are females that have rape fantasies where the male is a victim, this usually doesn't work very well.

Around the mid-sixties, there was three females running around southern California in a windowless surfer style van picking up males. They would pull out guns, order the male captive to strip naked, tie him up, abuse him, brutalize him, and then, take turns trying to have sex with him. Out of the known 11 males that they grabbed, only one successfully engaged in sex. After they had their way with the males, they would dump them, naked, at the side of some rarely traveled road around the LA area. When they were finally caught, they were never charged with rape, just kidnapping, theft, and assault..

Some of the men that were picked up naked by the police along various roads were charged with public indecency. These charges were later dropped when the authorities found out the truth of the matter...but their fines were never returned....

I felt guilty that I didn't feel the same level of distress for Daniel as I do seeing women in his position (I was very distressed by his ordeal, just not to the same degree) - You shouldn't, I felt nothing for his situation as I did with women in other movies with rape scenes

I wonder whether this is simply because I am female and so can better identify with a female victim, and if so whether men are less distressed by female-victim rape scenes than by Daniel's - Not at all, I'm a guy and was barley distressed by his situation at all. This could be from a) Being desensitized or b) It wasn't well acted/directed. I'm not sure but I think it has to do mainly with the fact the actor/character wasn't distressed, he put up very little physical/vocal resistance to any sexual advances they made, I was thinking the whole time how absolutely terrifying it would be and didn't think he came even close to matching the distress I imagined with his performance

911 Operator: The body's cold?
Buffy: No, my mom! Sh-should I make her warm?
- The Body

daisho1965

A group of recent studies has shown that there is more violence against males by females than by males against females. It is under reported for many reasons including male machoism, male embarrassment, and non-belief by authorities.


I am personally familiar with your and other's 'lack of empathy' when it comes to males being sexually abused by females. Below is a copy of a post I made to another forum. I find it ironic that many women have recently been arrested for sexual encounters with young males. It happened to me at a time when females could do very little wrong and could get away with most anything short of murder.

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I am a male.

When I was 10 years old (1951), my parents went away for a weekend. A 17 year old girl was hired to stay with me. My parents left late Friday afternoon. That night, the girl introduced me to sex. This went on through most of the night... We spent the next day, Saturday, delving deeper and further into sexual activities. Saturday night was a continuation of what went before except that my parents, who were not expected till Sunday evening, came home due to one of their destinations was snowbound.

The girl's parents was contacted and they came over to our house. a ruckus ensued and the police was called. Through it all, I was the only one taken away by the authorities. I spent 3 months in a reformatory. When I was released, I learned that nothing happened to the girl, in fact, she was thought of as a victim and I was the sexual pervert. I realize that this happened during a time when females could do very little wrong..

It became knowledgeable to some people about my circumstances. I mowed lawns and did odd jobs in order to make some money. When I was 12 years old, I was hired to rake a woman's lawn. I think she was around 24 or so years old. About half way through my lawn raking, she invited me into the house for a sandwich and something to drink. She began talking about all sorts of things, then she said that she knew what happened to me and started asking about the intimate details. I started to leave. Then She told me that she would tell the police that I tried something and I would end up going back to the reform school if I left. Not wanting to go back to what amounted to a prison, I stayed.

She would call my house about every 3 weeks and tell my Mom, Dad or me that she had a job for me to do and fearful of going back to the reformatory, I would go. I became this woman's sex toy until I was around 13 1/2 years old. This time, when I went to her house, there was another woman there. She was a little older than the first woman. The younger woman said that she has been telling the second woman about me and that the other woman was interested in the things that I was taught to do and wanted to "have some fun too...". for about 3 months, both women were there when I came to the house and I had to perform for both of them.

The younger woman told me that she had to move and that the older woman would be taking her place. Things were the same as before, only the address and the woman had changed. This went on until I was nearly 16 years old and the older woman moved away.


All of this has been put behind me, my problem is with the police, authorities, and therapists and the stupid logic that they apply. I was the evil person here. When the authorities had me, I had to stand for hours on end as they threw question after question at me. The questions became accusations and then threats. At times I felt like agreeing with them just so I could rest but then, I knew I couldn't, it would be admitting to something I didn't do.

Now, I actually fear the police. When a police car is behind me in traffic, I break out in a sweat and start to shake. Just when I think I have it under control, some policeman somewhere will kill some innocent kid, or beat someone to a pulp and the fear starts over again. I find it very difficult to trust these people. It seems when they make a mistake, someone else is going to pay for it..

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[deleted]

I am a male, and I felt distressed during the rape scenes, especially the anal penetration scene, because whether it was too tame or not, it was still very much rape. Even though I was distressed, I do think the scenes were underwhelming for the (presumed) point of the film. I think the rapes lacked a raw emotional aggression that you think of when you think of rape. This was played out like some elaborate mind game that was targeted specifically towards him and the fact that he was a dancer. I wouldn't try to downplay what did happen to his character, he was definitely abused and degraded, both physically and psychologically. The way it was done is probably why it was so hard to empathize with at the level of other rapes in movies, the whole thing was just so sterile and orchestrated. The elaborate costumes, the gigantic room, the heavy duty chains and braces, the sensuality. I think the writer/director was trying too hard to get people to sympathize with him by any means. Being completely chained down for the duration, being held captive for two weeks. Even though the rape is obviously cruel, the imprisonment may be even more cruel. There were some good points to the movie, but it failed to live up to its potential, it left me wanting a lot more. I hope someone else attempts this idea and executes on it better. It's an avenue that should be explored given the double standards on the issue.

I think you're off base when you bring up the character's arousal. While I think you do make a point that the woman should have been perhaps more "real" looking (although making them "ugly" would just feed into a sexist stereotype that men would only say no to sex if the woman was ugly), arousal is not an act of consent. Arousal can be purely a involuntary physiological response, the same with an orgasm. It has been shown in surveys and studies that some females have been physically aroused and achieve orgasm during rape, that does not mean they enjoyed what happened to them, or that they consented.