other movies like this? - Gunner Palace (2004) Discussion

[–] bwetherill 19 years ago

If you get the military channel or the Discovery Times channel there are quite a few like this that get shown sometimes on there. Some that follow units during the invasion some that follow Marines going through their training at Paris island. I love it. Real "reality TV"...

Michael Moore is a stupid piece of trash calling that film a documentary. Gunner was a documentary. An unbiased view... F Michael Moore. Hope that MFer dies.

God I hate michael more....

reply

[–] wipassrithong 19 years ago

Please don't kill Michael Moore. He made good movies like Roger and Me,
Bowling for Columbine or even Fa911 ,which is not that bad.(Sorry for
my Eng, I speak thai at home) There's no rule that Documentary film has to be unprejudiced. Actually, it's almost impossible for any form of art to be objective.For my stupid humble opinion,I think there's only good or bad work
of doc film.
Try 'Triumph of the will'

reply

[–] junglist9000 19 years ago

Fahrenheit was one hell of a movie, not one sided at all. If you want to see one sided watch "Fahrenhype".

As for the documentaries, check out http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

Watch "A company of soldiers"... really good

reply

[–] Bossdriver 19 years ago

Fahrenhype simply pointed out the lies and distortions of Fahrenheit 911.

reply

[–] TheButterflyEffect 19 years ago

Michael Moore is just another a huckster peddling controversy for a buck. Not to say that these types don't appear on both sides of the isle though.

BUNGGG!

reply

[–] setphasers2kill 19 years ago

Watched both Farenheit and Farenhype, and I thought they were both trash

I think Michael Morre is garbage for the way he projects his views, and how he leaves out certain facts to further those views.

While I dont think Dick morris is garbage, his attempt at movie making was.

This kind of arguement could go on and on, but this move has nothing to do with either Michael Moore, nor Dick Morris, it has to do with Gunner Palace.

reply

[–] battling88 19 years ago

Too say Farenheit 911 wasn't one sided is like saying the Pope is Jewish, both retarded statements.

reply

[–] profebc 18 years ago

The difficulty with bashing Micheal Moore will always be how accurately his Oscar acceptance speech squares with the historical facts. He got WMD right and he got it first (except for the experts in the FBI, CIA and elsewhere whom the neocons Swiftboated).

There is no shame in being "one sided" if the alternative side has been proven to be short on facts and long on delusion. In fact, Moore lets President Bush, Sec. Rice, et al speak for themselves, which Moore's critics rarely do and when they do, it's usually a title card, which is--forget the politics--just bad cinema.

If a documentary is measured by its comparison with the facts, every IED that explodes, every casualty, every rise in the cost of a barrel of oil makes F911 more significant than Farenhype or Celsius 41.11. Just the ratio of primary footage to talking heads ought to tell you which one comes closer to reality. If you'd rather watch Ron Silver drive around NY blathering and revealing how little he knows about Leni Reifenstahl, go ahead. Silver's a one-trick pony who tried to trot on the coat-tails of 911 to stardom, but he fell off somewhere between Abu Ghraib and Hurricane Katrina.

"We are now fighting a fictious war for fictitious reasons," has become game, set, match to Mr. Moore.

reply

[–] chcasida 19 years ago

Not one-sided at all? People like you really exist?

reply

[–] k57 18 years ago

lol I wondered the same thing

---
Stacy: You're really complicated, aren't you?
Anthony: I try not to be.

reply

[–] profebc 17 years ago

Don't blame "people like" me. My personality or existence has nothing to do with it. There are a number of sides. The facts of history seem to have chosen MM's side.

reply

[–] profebc 17 years ago

Please read my post again. Yes, F911 is one-sided and that side has proven historically accurate when compared to the Bush Administration's prevarications.

And, yes, I exist, although that seems beside the point.

reply

[–] profebc 16 years ago

In a documentary it isn't a question of being "one-sided"; it's a question of documentation. If Gunnar's Palace were a one-sided movie, we'd see less scrambling to recruit more soldiers, sailors and Marines.

Sides matter in how the facts support one or the other. Let's face it: history has clearly been biased in its support of Moore's initial assessment of the Iraq War.

As for the facts behind Gunnar's Palace, one need not look much farther than the debate around the Sen. Webb's veterans bill to see that recruitment and re-ups are not as high as fans of the war need them to be (In my immediate family we've had two people leave the military since the war began; one was six years from retirement). No one's arguing that Gunnar's Palace shows all sides, but it does document several real sides.

Other sides can be found in Control Room, Taxi to the Dark Side and Why We Fight.

reply

[–] morethanmisc 18 years ago

Not one sided at all?
Are you SERIOUS?

www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

Don't even try to call this link URL ^ biased - it has all the documentation and citation in the world - something Michael Moore mysteriously avoided.

reply

[–] profebc 16 years ago

How can a site that cites documentation on MM's own site have "all the documentation and citation in the world"? How can Kopel question and reinterpret MM's documentation and citations if MM avoided them? That's a lot of sites and sides. Happy now?

I don't blame you for not reading the site you cited. It's not too useful. Kopel's site even defends the erroneous charges of collaboration between Iraq and al-Qaida, which even GWB now admits didn't happen. Kopel is so far out there that he even puts MM and GWB on one side of an issue. Amazing!

To appreciate Gunnar's Palace focused theme compare it to F911's omnivorous style. But seeing Gunner's Palace without first seeing the recruiting section of F911 is like seeing GFII but never GF. I'd also suggest John Huston's banned documentary from WWII, Let There Be Light. It isn't in GP's style, but it suggests what happens to some soldiers after the return from war. There's many sides; some work together; some have been discredited, like Kopel's warmth for the WMD fairytale.

reply

[–] rlange-3 19 years ago

Blackhawk Down comes about the closest to this one. Both are excellent.

reply

[–] tjaoz 19 years ago

Yeah Black Hawk Down is a brilliant movie. In Australia the DVD (3-disc version) comes with an excellent 90min documentary from The History Channel ("The True Story of Black Hawk Down"). I was blown away at how accurate the movie was compared to the documentary (and assuming the documentary is accurate of course)

reply

[–] tjaoz 19 years ago

you might like
Control Room - 7.9/10 (1,609 votes) - #44 in IMDB top 50 documentaries
I thought that one was excellent. Not exactly like Gunner Palace, but it just shows you the footage and interviews to make up your own mind.
It's by the director of another excellent doco "Startup.com" (not war related).
Control Room: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0391024/

You may also like
The Fog of War - 8.3/10 (3,812 votes) - #10 in top 50
again not exactly like G.P, but an excellent war related doco - won the oscar for it's year.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317910/

I know you didn't ask, but if you're after some good non-war docos, I recommend these if you've not seen them already (all easily available on dvd, as are the above mentioned docos)...

Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills - 8.0/10 (1,403 votes)
disturbing, but excellent - hollywood could only wish to make a story like this. It had me yelling at the TV (hehehe). (get the newly released UK dvd as it has the sequel on it too - I believe it's all regions and ntsc)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117293/

Touching The Void - 8.1/10 (3,949 votes) - #22 in top 50
Brilliant, must see documentary, especially if you don't know the Joe Simpson story already. It won the BAFTA for best british film (beating 'Cold Mountain', 'Girl With A Pearl Earring' and others), and made the Oscar short-list (it should have won in my opinion - don't know how Super Size Me even got nominated). It has re-enactments that are movie quailty too.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379557/

Riding Giants - 7.7/10 (611 votes)
latest one by the director of Dogtown & Z-Boys (which is also just as good, and has a movie based on it just come out). I'm not into surfing or skating, but I loved both of these - you don't need to know anything about surfing or skating. Pretty amazing docos. Riding Giants also made the oscar short-list, but didn't get to final nominations.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389326/

The World According To Bush - 8.2/10 (264 votes)
This is a sort of simliar subject to Fahrenheit (with the Bush stuff, not the Soldier stuff), but a more 'traditional' type doco (interviews/archive footage only). It was to be shown at Cannes Film Festival if Farhenheit had not been finished in time (which would have made it like only the 3rd or 4th doco there in 50 years or something). It has proper interviews with: Hans Blix, Colin Powell, Richard Perle, James Woolsey and many others. A much much better doco than Fahrenheit - 100 times better - and much more serious. Highly recommended. (check out some of the imdb user comments)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416043/

The Corporation - 8.5/10 (2,499 votes) - #8 in top 50
excellent doco - if you don't like Michael Moore, I should warn you it has him interviewed in it (for a very small amount of time), but it mostly interviews other people, and is not like Michael Moores films at all - more a traditional type doco.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379225/

reply

[–] k57 18 years ago

You're leaning.

---
Stacy: You're really complicated, aren't you?
Anthony: I try not to be.

reply

[–] thomas2727 18 years ago

There was a PBS Frontline called A Company of Soldiers that is a lot like Gunner Palace.

reply

[–] dragunov85 18 years ago

I recently saw a private screening of Occupation: Dreamland. It follows around a company from the 1/505 PIR) of the 82nd Airborne Division while they were in Falluja, from their times of R&R to their patrols/raids. This was just before they were relieved by other units and the city was besieged. It's very intimate, focussing on the feelings and reflections of a specific squad. I thought it was totally unbiased.

http://www.occupationdreamland.com

reply

[–] k57 18 years ago

I also saw Occupation: Dreamland. It is NOTHING LIKE this film, in that it lacks humor and/or grace.

Sorry.

---
Stacy: You're really complicated, aren't you?
Anthony: I try not to be.

reply

[–] k57 18 years ago

I'm not sure there is another like this one out there. IE: It does not sh!t to the left or to the right. It just records a period in time. And I love it for that.

Enough of the Michael Moores and the... well there is no equivalent, really.

The left does what it does and the right does what it does.

/middle

---
Stacy: You're really complicated, aren't you?
Anthony: I try not to be.

reply

[–] dope_feeny 18 years ago

There is another movie similar to "Gunner Palace" called "The War Tapes" which should be coming out soon. It is a much better film, in my opinion, and is never hyped up or glossed over or propagandized in any way like GP often is.

The feature-length documentary follows (and is primarily shot by) a bunch of U.S. Army Reserve soldiers on their journey to hell and back. It depicts the real nitty-gritty about what is going on in Iraq and what happens upon the soldiers' return to the USA. If you liked "Gunner Palace" you should love this documentary "The War Tapes" as it seems much closer to what the real stories behind the war actually are.

The film is currently looking for Theatrical/DVD distribution I think, although it shouldn't take long to find it because it is a great film. Look for it soon!!

reply

[–] k57 18 years ago

Cool, thanks for the heads-up

reply

[–] parhat 15 years ago

No documentaries are perfect but some gives you extra information or entertainment or education, bad or good. Yes, my favorite is Gunner's Palace. However, some are available over torrent too, such as "Occupation 101", "War Made Easy", "Children of Conflict", and "Passionate eye: the Afghanistan Opium Trail". and "The Lebanon War". I am sure that with our critical opinion that some are bad or awful, is one of the most important traits in helping us become a potential in creating better then Michael Moore's documentary. It's these eye for details that helps us become better creatively. One of the students actually redone the Michael Moore's documentary, added more information in a school project and won an award, just by putting in these points that were missing. Who knows, he could be another Steven Spielberg!

reply

[–] parhat 15 years ago

Few more that concerns documentary: "Afghanistan: The Lost Truth", The last one looks cool, at least from the tape recordings of Presidential leaders, is the movie named "Missing Links". Torrents are available in case it can't be found in stores. An old classic is "The Fog of War" by Robert McNamara, the Whiz kid himself, looking at his lessons to be learned as Secretary of Defense during the JFK and LBJ administration concerning Vietnam war.

reply

[–] Cobrastang99 13 years ago

Thanks, Feeny. I'll keep my eye out for it.

"I'd like the Awesome Blossom. Extra awesome."

reply