MovieChat Forums > Marie Antoinette (2006) Discussion > How could she be executed if she became ...

How could she be executed if she became a queen being an heiress.


I have a huge doubt about her execution.

How people were able to put her on trial and then being executed if she was a queen by heritage and not by Marriage.

Being a Tudors fan I had understood that a queen by heritage could not be killed by the law.
They were the ones who ordered the execution of the traitors and people who were threats to the crown.

The only Queens who could be beheaded were consort queens like Hnery's wifes.
So Why Marie Antonniette was killed by the law, how the people were able to put her in that situation

reply

[deleted]

Pure girl I feel horrible for the people who were excecuted on made up charges just because someone wants to get rid of her.

The Woman didn't want to be a queen she could just have abdicatted the throne and be a Dutches or something like that.


It's really tragic that she died so young or what about something like what Edward Henry's son recived which is king for just a few years till heiress is ready to rule her country

reply

[deleted]

Those woman have very tragic but at the same time fascinating lifes.

It's so unfair how these young girls were treated and how easily could be excecutted for literally nothing.

reply

You need to do some research about the history of monarchy in Europe. These people were driven by the motivation to secure political alliances and to propigate their bloodlines. Almost all the royal houses of Europe were intermingled by blood. Marie Antionnette, while unfairly accused of trumped up allegations to justify her execution, was hardly an innocent victim. She lived a lavish lifestyle while the average French citizen's reality was poverty. Was she a victim of circumstance owing to her mother's desire to cement an alliance between Austria and France? Absolutely. However, history is littered with examples of political intrique that resulted in the deaths of royalty. Her's is no different.

reply

[deleted]

I agree with you. And even being a female in those times she could have made many sacrifices more then just saying NO to diamonds. All the left over foods could have gone to the poor, instead of all those treats they were shoving down there throats the money could have gone to the poor. Just waste in general and cut backs they could have saved them selves all the hate the people learned to have for the royals.The royals back them got was the deserved in many ways. Can you imagine you and your children starving while the royals were carrying on as they did in this movie. The people should have thrown torches at the home.

reply

[deleted]

Well, all of the produce and dairy generated by the little replica country village was handed out daily to the poor. Marie-Antoinette even moved a peasant family in so they could oversee the day to day operations of the farm.

If anything, (especially earlier in her life and career as Dauphine of France) she was criticized for being too kind and compassionate. There are many examples of her kindness and warm loving heart. Even Louis XV had a few words with her on the matter.

I really think the revolution was eminent; it would have happened no matter who was in charge. Louis XVI was quite young when he ascended the throne. Marie-Antoinette was 19 (if memory serves). A generation had been skipped due to deaths and such.

I've done tons of research on this part of history. My mother's father's ancestors were French Nobility. I always wanted to know how they ended up in America. The French revolution played a big part in that.

reply

Yeah. I agree and people forget that a woman of any age did not have any rights back in those years. NONE WHATSOVER and it surprises me just because Marie Antoinette was queen and led a life not having to starve that she deserved to die. The woman was carted off like a damn piece of cattle by her mother no less to go marry a boy who despised her the minute he laid eyes on her because she was Austrian. And for what? To solidify an alliance mostly propagated by MEN. What in the hell do people expect Marie to do? She was barely in high school years of today? Do you remember how you were in junior high or freshman year in high school? I doubt you were a Mensa Candidate and could have solved the French's problems at the time, especially since all Marie Antoinette's focus on was being pushed into PUSHING OUT A CHILD when according to today's society would have made her a Teenage Mother on an MTV. People need to get together. Marie Antoinette was screwed from the get go! She wasn't even supposed to be the dauphine of France. It was supposed to be one of her older sisters, but then one of them died and it pushed her up the line. Louis XIV and Louis XV were the ones that kept Versailles and their ridiculous customs in tact that helped drive the French into total and utter poverty.

reply

While not all charges were true, many were, like her leaking intel to Austria to crush the Revolution.

She led an insensitive life, like her powered (with flour) pouf about the Flour Wars, which were actual riots by actual hungry people who could not get bread.

But there were people who wanted her to return to Austria and not be executed (like Robespierre) but the Austrian invasion (helped by MA's intel) forced their hands.

In any other time she would have been a kind of uncultured, shallow queen and nothing else. Unfortunately for her, she was in the middle of the death of feudal France.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Everyone is replaceable. Even you.

reply

Good point, Merrygold. Not only did Lady Jane Grey not want to be queen, she was forced to by her scheming parents. As soon as political winds shifted and she became a liability, they abandoned her and left her on her own on lovely Tower Green. And, no one could save the ill-fated queen.


Some movies are released; others sneak out.

reply

[deleted]

That's not true about queens not being able to be executed. They could be. Also French and English laws were different. Marie was a consort queen, too. That;s the only kind of queen if there is a king really. The king ruled over them. That's how Anne Boleyn died even though she was a crowned queen..

That was the whole point of the French revolution- to get rid of them! She spent all of the country's money on shoes and clothing. She was vain and selfish. The people basically did what they wanted. It didn't matter if she became a duchess, they wanted to kill off the royal line.

reply

You all need to remember one thing:

Marie Antoinette was not lawfully a queen when she was executed. The french republic had abolished the monarchy in 1792 after the royal families failed attempt to flee the country and the revolution. So technically Marie Antoinette wasn't a queen when she was put on trial. Many still believed in the monarchy of course but to the revolutionaries and the republic she was not thing but an ordinary citoyénne , a citizen. Her husband had been given the name "Capet" by the revolutionaries , who wanted to mock the former royals by giving them a name of a royal family of France that had died out in the 14th century, perhaps to imply that Louis and the rest of his Bourbon family, had been a impostor to the throne all along. In the accusations made against Marie Antoinette , she is simply named as "The Widow Capet"(a title which Napoleon always referred to the former queen with), the name which she also held when she was executed.

But still something strikes me: she may not have been the queen of France or a princess of the blood, since those titles had been abolished but she was still an Archduchess of Austria and therefore could have called the right to be named as such since the Austrian-Hungarian empire still existed. Hmph, maybe she tried but they probably wouldn't let her. All we know is that she never bowed to their demands. In some of her last letters, which were sent after her husbands execution she stills only signs herself as "Marie-Antoinette", no surname and her son Louis Charles just sign himself "Louis" the way a king or dauphin would sign himself.

reply

Thank you so much to everyone here for
Thanks for your explanation and information you gave me
it helped me a lot.

Of course I still think her death was unfair and sad but at least makes more scense now.

First she wasn't french

Second I now finally know she was a consort queen so the excecution was possible but unfair because like Anne Boleyn was excecuted by made up charges.


Third well seems like the monarchy was kind of fake.
They were just rich people with a noble tittle.

reply

Personally,I think Henry the VIII wantes to get rid of Anne Boleyn because of her failure to produce a son. Just because the first kid was a girl, doesn't neccessarily mean tbe next one would be. He should have given her a change and tried to have another baby with her instead of losing intrest in her and having her beheaded on trumped up charges.

reply

Anne Boleyn was executed so Henry could get an heir. Marie-Antoinette was executed because, after the Austrian invasion to France, there was no other option.


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Everyone is replaceable. Even you.

reply

...a queen by heritage could not be killed by the law.

Marie Antoinette's execution had nothing whatever to do with the law! She was murdered after a charade put on by revolutionary criminals.

Each one of the persons who voted her execution or her husband the King's was committing high treason, a capital offense.















Scostatevi profani! Melpomene son io...


reply

Why are you equating British Monarch history and facts with French Monarch history and facts and this movie which is a playful, colorful movie showing HOW MA got to be beheaded???????


She was NOT a queen by heritage... not in France, anyway. Not even in Austria. She was a princess of Austria, the Dauphine of France and then Queen of France because she married Louis.


A queen by heritage ... blah blah blah... need I mention Jane Gray? She was queen for 9 days and then ultimately lost her head because that pissed off Mary.



Madame deficit... no one needs 172 gowns in ONE YEAR!!!

^^ that is the reason why she was beheaded... she spent the country's money on herself..

Need I mention the diamond fiasco????


Oh Thank you God! Thank you so BLOODY much!Basil Fawlty

reply

Why are you equating British Monarch history and facts with French Monarch history and facts and this movie which is a playful, colorful movie showing HOW MA got to be beheaded???????


I just felt that something in her tragic death didn't make sense to me and maybe it's silly but I just though France and England being similar countries I thought the rules for their monarchs were almost the same.



She was NOT a queen by heritage... not in France, anyway. Not even in Austria. She was a princess of Austria, the Dauphine of France and then Queen of France because she married Louis


I didn't know this before i wrote my original post and wait she still was part of a royalty since she was born.
Couldn't have that help her

reply

[deleted]

tecnically, marie-antoinette's execution stemmed from her being found guilty of all charges against her at her trial, to include dilapidating the nation's finances, molesting her son, and, most importantly, treason in the form her sending intelligence to france's enemies. at a more symbolic level, she represented perceived abuse of the ancien régime, and so had to go. she couldn't abdicate, because, as others have mentioned, she was not a queen regnant and never actually ruled, and at any rate the monarchy had been abolished in august of 1792.

reply

Marie Antoinette was queen of France in the 18th Century. Nothing to do with the Tudors?
She was executed by the people, for treason against the revolution. In England Charles I was executed in the 17th Century, about 150 years earlier by a revolutionary government.

reply

She was killed to be made an example, just like her husband.

The people wanted to show that they repudiated the very idea of Royal blood. They wanted to show that they refused to be ruled and abused by people who think they live above the rest of humanity.

The older I get, the more I agree with them. Antoinette had to die along with her husband. The royalty needed to be taken out in order for a more democratic system to be born. The French Revolution kept the aristocrats in their places for many, many years. It is just recently that they are starting to return to their old ways. Most likely we will all witness new revolutions because the elite have money and power enough to abuse society. Since they have the ability to do so, they do it. Just like Antoinette and the rest of her class did at that point in history.

reply

it's more complicated than that. the king's execution was a complex political statement meant to undo centuries of tradition and symbolism attached to the person of the king as well as establish once and for all the french republic in the eyes of other european powers. by trying the king before a jury, physically beheading him, and buying the remains in an unmarked grave, the revolutionaries destroyed the aura of monarchy, reducing him to a mere mortal and, it was believed, setting a precedent against the future establishment of monarchy in france.

the queen's execution was different. she had no official political power before or after the fall of the ancien régime, and as a woman did not stand to inherit any. she might have served as regent for her son, but she would never have been allowed to rule as a queen regnant because of salic law, which only allowed men to rule in france. in essence she was executed to satiate revolutionary blood lust and because her name had become synonymous with pre-revolutionary excess and treason against the republic. she was found guilty on all counts, including abusing her son, despite the fact that no proof was ever presented. sure, she had sent papers to austria, but by the time of trial, the evidence was vienna, not paris. it was a complete sham.

so yes, the royal family was "taken out" for a more democratic system to be born... a system that in france lasted less than 10 years, at which point napoléon came to power wielding more authority than louis XVI or even louis XIV ever did. did the king's wife and sister have to die? did his son have to suffer a year of abuse and isolation in prison at the hands of his revolutionary "caretakers?" i don't think so.

reply

so yes, the royal family was "taken out" for a more democratic system to be born... a system that in france lasted less than 10 years, at which point napoléon came to power wielding more authority than louis XVI or even louis XIV ever did.


Not to mention the dozens of governmental changes that they had since then.

The UK was able to remain much more stable and democratic while keeping their monarchy. And we all see how well Russia did and is now doing after getting rid of their monarchy. Getting rid of one's royals isn't really cracked up to what it seems.

reply

Do you think the UK is democratic?

You better rethink that...since part of the world's problems financially are due to the UK royals.

reply

^

No.

reply

I said more stable and democratic, not absolute. Absolute democracies do not exist. It was far more democratic compared to what Russia was and still is going through. The same with France.

reply

I have mixed feelings about Marie Antoinette's fate, especially since it doesn't seem like she was old enough or aware enough of her country's condition to know why she was hated. Most of those who hated her didn't know why, really, other than the fact that they were starving. Much of this was caused by a terrible series of years in which the temperature fell, summers became cold and wet and grain wouldn't grow.

In countries like England, they switched to staples like potatoes, but the French refused to do so, demanding their bread! It was their downfall. The French Revolution, like its monarchy was quite disorganized and confused, unlike the preceeding American revolution, which wasn't just people reacting to hunger and envy, but wanting economic and political freedom. Just look how quickly the French adopted a new dictator: Napoleon!

But as someone said, the lifestyles of the monarchy in those times are very similar to that of the rich today. They are isolated and all the young people do is jet around, partying and buying outrageously expensive things while their hedge fund parents destroy the Western economy! And amazingly, NOBODY goes to jail for it! Not as yet (exc. for a few patsies).

So, I see Marie & Louis as just another couple of spoiled, witless teens who needed to get serious and appease the people, but were too out of it to do so. They had terrible advice from their elders, or none at all.



She deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die.

reply

[deleted]

Okay, but why execute? Why not just abolish the monarchy( which was done) and dethrone the royals? What possible danger could Marie Antoinnete present, after 1792- or even before. But definitely after. It shows deep bloodlust and massive insecurity. Even if Louis tried to conspire with the Austrians to invade France, it is very, very unlikely that MA would have attempted any such thing on her own.

reply

But the Assembly tried a Constitutional Monarchy and it failed because of Louis and Marie-Antoinette. And she did betray France and conspired with Austria to have it invade France, we have the evidence.

When you are changing the world like the Revolution did, you don't do it by halves. That's why, after Varennes and with the Empire threatening France, Louis and Marie-Antoinette had to die.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Everyone is replaceable. Even you.

reply

I was thinking along those same lines.

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.
Conceive Deceive or Leave

reply

I'm not sure but since the Revolution happened and the monarchy was deposed, wouldn't the old royal laws not matter anymore? Just like with the deposing of Saddam Hussein all the laws he made in Iraq were void and there is a new government or with the fall of communism and the dissolving of the USSR the Soviet laws don't apply anymore.

I wonder if in fact Napoleon led France to even more ruin through his warfare and invasions if King Louis spent French fortunes on the American Revolution what about Napoleon's campaign against the rest of Europe? I'm surprised France ever recovered from the Napoleonic wars.

I AM curious about when France and the UK became democracies. Was there a democratic revolution after Napoleon cause he obviously was a dictator. And Britain never had this type of revolution when did the British royal family just give up power and allow free election for a prime minister and parliament.

reply

Our originator watches a program that portrays the legal protocol during the stable years of a dynasty, in England, 500 years ago and after watching a movie, "has huge doubts about the execution" of Antoinette after she/he? applies the program to what took place in FRANCE, 200 years ago, during one of the bloodiest revolutions in modern history that ended French Royalty.

Makes perfect sense.

For the record, almost ALL the Royals,(by birth or marriage) and Nobility who remained in Paris during the revolution were executed with little or no legal process.

reply

Ok that last sentence answered everything for me, first I was like wait I thought royals by birth couldn't get executed but now I see everything clear the revolutionaries killed everyone who had a noble title so they could finish with the monarchy.

Thanks a lot
That helped me a lot

reply

The problem with the revolution is that it basically became a free for all. Everyone went batcrazy and anarchy ruled. If an anarchist law was not approved and you were at the top of the heap, you got the guillotine just like Marie and Louis XVI. One of the top officials of the Revolution, Robespierre was executed by his own followers along with many others. The fact that anyone could lend validity towards Marie and Louis' execution when the executors began to eat their own at the end is pure insanity.

reply

Really?

Didn't know things went that bad, so it was basically a badly organized revolution where everything went wrong and many innocent victims were executed among them there were Marie Antoinette and her husband .


reply

Robespierre wasn'jt executed by his followers. In fact, the Jacobins were persecuted after Thermidor. He was crushed between the enrages and the right.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Everyone is replaceable. Even you.

reply