MovieChat Forums > Hagane no renkinjutsushi (2004) Discussion > Definitely my preferred anime adaptation...

Definitely my preferred anime adaptation of the two. (massive spoilers)


Yes, yes, I know it's not true to the manga, but the thing about moving picture media is that it's all about presentation. Let me take a moment out of explaining that to say this: the manga is my favorite incarnation of Fullmetal Alchemist, above either anime. Now then...

2003 Anime:
When I say presentation, I mean a lot of things: initial reveal, design, development, clarity, and logos, ethos, and pathos. The 2003 anime didn't just throw us in to the thick of things at breakneck speed like it expected everyone to already have read the manga. Any decent adaptation is made with the expectation that they are drawing a new crowd as well as people who loved the original it came from and act accoridngly by properly introducing the characters and world. Then it will properly develop them and show us how it all works.
Episodes 1&2 of the series, we're introduced to Rose, a rather obvious audience stand-in who serves her purpose perfectly. Through the eyes of this simple girl living in a simple desert town, we watch this particular chapter of Elric brothers' story unfold. With her, we learn the principles and power of alchemy, about the Elrics and their motives, of the mystery surrounding the Philosopher's Stone with her, and of the good and bad that comes with alchemy depending on who uses it and why. We see what we need to see at that early stage and we're told the rest in very concise terms.

Then over the next 23 episode, we're told the backstory and present circumstances of Elrics proper, growing to know, empathize, and love them along the way. We also get to know and love many of the people around them. Mustang, Hawkeye, Hughes, Nina, Winry, Grandma, and more. These characters had so many sides to them, their strong points, their flaws, their motives, their aspirations, and their fears, and they were so nicely nuanced.
The story isn't rushed or dragged out. The first half of the series is near perfect apart from a couple of unnecessary filler. It's given time to breathe and we're allowed to familiarize ourselves with the world and its denizons.

Now, as for the second half of the series, I'm not going to deny it. It is somewhat problematic, but it isn't bad. I love how Dante is like a warped shadow counterpart of Ed showing just how wrong a person can go for selfish and petty reasons. Unlike Ed, she never learned her lessons about playing with fire.

Besides, I can't really blame the people who made the series. They were required to come up with their own ending, and for what they had to work with at the time, the creators did a very good job. I watched this through and finished the anime before I ever had a chance to read the manga, and I'm glad. It allowed me to just appreciate what I had in front of me without outside expectations. As a story in it's own right, it's fine. It's not perfect by any means, but what ever is. Even if the second half is weaker than the first, that's alright. We still had a solid story and a cast of characters we loved.
So in conclusion: Fantastic first half; just good second half. Overall, great show. It was funny, it was tragic, and it followed through with its themes: once you've lost something, you are NOT getting it back.
The movie sucked, though. Won't deny that.

Brotherhood:
I wish I could have enjoyed Brotherhood as much. The episodes that cover the manga are excellent. They're everything I could have ever hoped they'd be. Too bad I couldn't care less.
What? Yes, you heard me right. I have a bone to pick with the first 12-13 episodes of Brotherhood, which just ruin the whole thing for me. They cover the same ground as episodes 1-25 of the 2003 anime. Brotherhood had the opportunity to go back to the start and begin anew. To retell FMA more accurately to the manga, which they did in the long run, but...
They screwed up in the opening act by rushing it. I can understand that the showrunners being reluctant to have to retell the bits of the story that they poured so much heart into the first time around, but too bad. When you're telling a story, you HAVE to do it right. You have to take the time to get your audience into your world. You HAVE to properly develop all your characters and the story at a pace that can breathe. Brotherhood didn't do that.

Episode 1 is utterly useless.
Episode 2 is a poor man's retelling of the Father Cornello mini-arc.

Don't even get me started on how they handled the Tuckers in Brotherhood.
They obviously knew while working on the first anime that viewers needed to get to know Nina and her father in order for the inevitable to have the desired impact (our tears). So, they let the Tuckers hang around for a few episodes and then dedicated the whole of "Night of the Chimera's Cry" to them. Then in the following episode, they used the grisly fallout to showcase how each Elric handles loss (post-failed resurrection) and introduced us to Barry early.

In Brotherhood, we got Nina for one episode, and honestly, the whole ordeal was unintentional comedy at its finest. The big reveal at the end, it was so over the top that I actually burst out laughing. Laughing. At a little girl becoming her daddy's grisly science experiment. The dutch angles, the exaggerated faces and reactions, the music, everything just screamed of "trying too hard".

2003 anime: when the Elrics confront Shou Tucker, the scene took its time to build up and let the reveal come out naturally. It knew when to pause, but more importantly, it was restrained, like a dam building pressure. The dam finally breaks when Ed completely loses it and beats Tucker half to death with his automail arm. The music was somber and lowbeat, the expressions and reactions were more subdued, the angles were simple and they just let the scene tell itself. Then, when all is said and done and Scar enters the scene, the viewer is left just as shocked and horrorstruck as Ed and Al.
In Brotherhood, it's more "Well, that's sad." Yeah, it is, but it's not the soul-crushing climax of the original.

And then there's the big one: Hughes. In the 2003 anime, we get to know Hughes through the first season very, very well. His personality, his kindness, his quirks, his hopes, his dreams, his family, and his friends. He's easily one of the most likeable characters of the whole show. So, obviously, when he went the way of Nina, there were more bitter tears to be had. Much like Nina, the final hours of his life got an entire episode dedicated to them and the impact of his death was played perfectly with a cold closing.
We barely get to know Hughes in Brotherhood and his death, while still sad, is once again, just not the soul-crushing finish the first anime had.

This right here is the linchpin for why I couldn't get into Brotherhood. It doesn't matter if the episodes after the first act accurately retell the manga. In fact, I would dare say that the episodes 14-64 of Brotherhood are a heck of a lot better than episodes 26-51 of the 2003 anime. I still like the 2003 one better because it put so much loving effort into giving me reasons to become invested in what happened to the Elrics and the world around them.
Brotherhood treated the early chapters like an obstacle to be overcome rather than a story to be told. It couldn't be bothered to make me care like the first one did. Brotherhood just assumed that I knew the world and characters and just never bothered developing them until after it actually started having a coherent narrative around episode 13-14.

It's a shame, too, because there is a lot in the early chapters covered by the 2003 anime that never made it into either adaptation. I will say one thing for Brotherhood, though, though: it had a much more likeable Roy Mustang from the beginning. Mustang in the 2003 series just rubbed me the wrong way. I only really started to like him in the final episodes of that series. He's much more accessible as a character in the manga and in Brotherhood.

This is all just my opinion, though. I hope you didn't find this rant too boring.



"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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I completely agree with you, too bad Brotherhood was aimed for kids who's only interest is cool action and fighting scenes. It's clear the first FMA had the better story telling and emotional impact Brotherhood lacked. It's a shame really because instead of having one masterpiece series, we're stuck with two diverging series that splits the fan base in two halves.

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I think both shows were aimed at the same age group. The main difference I see is that the staff gave it their all the first time and then took things for granted the second time.



"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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The 2003 anime def had a better start, I liked how Hughes and everyone got more development. But from the second half of the show until the ending, brotherhood is leagues better. The action is also better, and I like a lot of the characters that the original anime left out.

Although I preferred scar and the bomber alchemist in the first anime

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FMA1 is a really good anime with some good story/writers elements, but FMA:B is more profound and 'complete'. A good blend of the two would be awesome, if you ask me.

Brotherhood is far better. And not because i'm a purist or that is the only lame reason. Because it is true to the manga > The story actually has a profound meaning that is hidden behind layers of symbolism. Arakawa-sensei had a different goal in mind then just telling a nice action story. It really is a very intelligent piece of writing if you could see it. (even if it is flawed in parts of the buildup. ) Any serious deviation from the original story breaks the 'alchemical formula circle' and the deeper morals behind it so to speak.

I admit FMA1 had a better buildup and character development. Especially the deaths of Mothers, Hughes and the little kid had a profound meaning and it gave a far better insight into the motive and actions of the 2 siblings. The anime had more time to explain things in the beginning, but they really borked up the story later on making even the title and the true symbolic meaning of the story senseless. It became broken instead of just flawed.

See my reasoning about why I think Brotherhood is better below!
Maybe after reading this, you can appreciate Brotherhood more. For me it was really fun to see all the symbolic stuff and figuring out what was meant by it.

-I copy pasted the part below from another post of mine-


***SPOILER HEAVY too***

The first (non-brotherhood) actually has a few better 'darker' more emotional parts like with the death of their mother, the murder of Hughes which they spent moretime with then in Brotherhood ( which makes their sorrow much deeper ) and the murder of the little child. Those scenes are sadly are missing in the second one. They had a lot more time in the first run of FMA to sculpt out the characters and the suffering of both brothers. The motive for their actions is actually much stronger in the first one. But after those episodes the series took a plunge and became standard anime. The ending was a mess and did not really make sense according to the deeper hidden story the writer meant to tell. The anime studio changed the latter part of the story and the ending completely. It was not bad, but it did not make much sense if you look at the second/hidden story.

Here is why:

The story has an alchemistic meaning and moral, which is fairly absent in the first one because of the clueless edits by the studio. ( which is why brotherhood as the real story was released later with the full endorsment of the real writer Arakawa-sensei ).

Some background info to understand my reasoning:

Alchemy is commonly misunderstood as only a means to gain immortality (in Oriental Alchemy) or transmuting lead to gold (in Western Alchemy), but actually it also had/has a far deeper, less materialistic meaning then that. The materialistic view was created to lull the church and governments of old into thinking it was 'harmless' and maybe even benificial to them. While actually the alchemists were also trying to become better humans and living by humanist,spiritual, gnostic and liberal (more modern) ethics which were seen as seditious and heretical by (mainly) the church and the nobility. Which is why the alchemists worked in secret and had ways of secretly communicating amongst them via books, stories, pseudo-science and pictures, which non-alchemists understood as ways to become rich etc.

Alchemistic symbols are often hidden behind multiple layers obscuring their true meaning, so that only people with knowledge on how to see them could understand them.

For example when they were writing about changing base metals to gold they were actually talking about how to change the unpure human soul to a pure one *this was the exclusive area of the church* and you'd be branded a heretic if you thought that man did not need to listen to the church. Or even better, how to become a true mature human and gain symbolic 'kinghood' (= a free human in charge of his own mind/heart and soul, not shackled by his lusts, fears and other wants or other humans. You see why Kings andPopes might not like these hererical teachings.

In the same way the philosopher's stone is not just something 'materialistic', but also 'spiritual'. They were also talking about how to be a better, smarter and wiser humans which could no longer be chained down by despotic governments or religious systems.

In the story of FMA:B it comes down to heaving a FullMetal heart, becoming free while being whole, balanced and a master of their carnal sins/primal urges. Fullmetal is actually 'Steel' as it is an incomplete translation from Japanese to English, because it sounded better?Steel aka purified Iron also has a symbolic alchemistic meaning as the power or will to temper primal urges while keeping the fire burning within.

Back to FMA:B :

By knowing this you see alot more in the story. The story is much more complicated then just a few guys battling away with magic against a few funny named beings. It actually has alot of meaning. As does each episode and the way the story is made/told.

Alot of symbols in the Anime, like the soul door with the tree of life, the true homunculus, the carnal sins and the capture of the pure sun/ god. Have a deeper meaning. Father, the demiurg, the fake god did everything in order to become something greater then himself even casting away the things that made him complete (and better) before. He wanted to change himself by taking and grabbing while forgetting the laws of god, nature and how to be a human in the first place. He even wanted to change nature/god itself by trying to become it himself. All while never ever giving something back in return. While actually he was closer to being that which he wanted to be before casting away all his humanity. Which is very common to most of humankind i'm afraid.


In Brotherhood the 'circle' of the story is complete at the end and Ed gains true maturity as a human and also becomes an adult. In the end after all the hardships his heart becomes a FullMetal heart which is actually the true Philosopher's Stone they are all looking for. The most powerful thing a human can have. A soul and heart that does not waver in times of adversity. A true heart that can love, not by taking, but by sharing according to the law of balance. A heart that does not only want, but also gives. In order to gain something you also have to give something is it not? Which is an awesome and a very wise message indeed. This story has profoundness we all could learn from. :D

In other words the hidden alchemical moral of the story is told IF you can see it of course. It needs some knowledge of symbolism, mysticism and alchemy. This is why FMA:B is a work of brilliance. It all fits according to the hidden story the writer wants to tell while the first does not. The first is just a cool anime, but brotherhood is sublime. If it was a book it would be just as awesome as for example Lord of the Rings. ( which is also full of symbolisms and hidden meanings ).

And so ends my reasoning. Don't mind me, just a simple Historian, animelover and student of symbolism all things mysterious!a

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I agree with a lot of what you said, but to me, the first act is very, very important in any story. If you can't reel me in with a good/great first impression, its not going to matter if the second half is the most awesome thing ever. I won't care. I wish there was an adaptation of FMA that was like the first half of the original, but the second half was the rest of the manga.



"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." -Gandalf

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I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, Brotherhood sucked and the first anime was a lot better and more enjoyable.

Being a faithful adaptation of the manga alone does not make Brotherhood better than the first anime.

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My problem with Brotherhood was it didnt make you earn the knowledge. It just gave you the reason why ed could perform alchemy without a circle.

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