MovieChat Forums > Our Fathers (2005) Discussion > Enter the Catholic bashers.

Enter the Catholic bashers.

posted 19 years ago by wayofthecass
6 replies | jump to latest

If this is a fair and dare I say it ''good'' drama then fair enough. I can't really judge as I have not seen it. But if it's some ''Stigmata'' or 'The Da Vinci Code' esque crap then I feel pretty sorry for the morons who buy into it.
Certainly the whole scandal was dispicable and exposed serious shortcomings in the centralisation approach by Pope John Paul II to the system of the Church.

In anti Catholic led areas of the world like central Scotland and Northern Ireland it ended up being an all round degrading time for Catholics. Not very pleasant at all.

But I do agree to getting this stuff out in the open. I mean look at all the corruption by the Born Again Christians in America. The 700 Club head honcho and leading Evangelist Pat Robertson and his son Gordon say the ONE God of the Islamic Q'uran (Allah I believe) is not the same being as the one God of the Judeo/Christian Bible aka. Jehovah. They basically inspire anti-Islamic propoganda and defile and blaspheme to a national audience over 1 billion other people's faith. Yet they unquestionably support the Bush admin in eveything they do which buy the way involves supporting and doing a regualr 'buddy,buddy' act with the world's leading human rights violaters Saudi Arabia.
I remember Jerry Fallwell doing a lot of backslapping with Reagan aswell. There is that link between the the American 'Christian' and the Republicans. Something to do with the anti-abortion, pornogrophy, and euthanasia stance I think. But what a bout the pro-Nuclear, pro-death penalty and pro-war for oil stance. Is that not EVIL aswell?
I remember Pope John Paul II condemning Bush to his face over the Iraq crime. (Thats not just an opinion by the way. It was actually a breach of the rules and regualtions of international law that America had signed up to which makes the Bush administration 'criminals')
Mmmmm. Don't remember any of those righteous American Evangelists doing anything similar. Do you?
But there were plenty of Protestants I know who condemned it and repelled the lies. I didn't base my opinions on them solely on the so called 'faces' of their denominations. I think the point is that amongst representatives of ALL faiths there are some real nasty and downright EVIL characters who simply play up to the stereotypical view held of that faith by followers of others. So don't always believe the hype and try and use some of your own experinces as a true indicator.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] gareth-russell 19 years ago

I'm from Northern Ireland and I'm a Protestant. I certainly did not think that the sexual scandals were used in any way to target ordinary Catholic people; many of my closest friends and even a former girlfriend are Catholics, and they were just as shocked by the scandal. I suggest you come and visit Northern Ireland at some point before you start using it as an example were some fort of rampant 16th century hysteria survives. I think what happened in Northern Ireland, where the Catholic Church covered up the scandal and moved paedophile priests across the entire island of Ireland to try and cover it up, was the reputation of the Church was further dented. But, believe me, considering that a number of priests aided the IRA in their campaign of terror (not "fredom fighting," I suggest that if that's what you think it is you should try living through car bombs, blackmail and intimdiation), the reputation of the Organised Catholic Church wasn't exactly riding high in Protestant circles even before the paedophile scandal! I think we need to be careful that these scandals aren't used to undermine the theological basis of Catholicism or even to attack Christianity as a composite unit; but surely questions of centralising the Church to such an extent and perhaps even questioning the psychological impacts of enforced priestly celibacy need to be looked at. I just hope this drama has treated the matter tastefully without launching into an attack on the entire Roman Catholic Faith and I plan one day to wtach it when it's made available on British television,

[–] wayofthecass 19 years ago

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. However my Father is a Donegal man and i have family and friends who live in Derry.I mean the actual number of Priests who actively aided members of the Provos could be counted on both hands. As for the hysteria.....well I belive the Protestant community on the whole pretty much elected The Right Reverand Ian Paisley as their leader. I can't tell you how much that turns my stomach. Remember 'Ulster Resistance' at all? Paisley's stance on Catholicism or 'Romanism' as he puts it is both vicious and cruel. Though i suppose that could simply be a backlash to the increased popularity of Sinn Feinn.
As for Glasgow. Well a St.Paddy's day parade is still banned as it is feared it would incite 'bigotry'. Okay. But the good old 12 of July Orange March and it's followers walk right through the City centre. They even changed the route last year so that the Celtic pubs in the Gallowgate could get to witness this fantastic and all inclusive cultural celebration which i believe, as you said in your comment, stems from the 16century. Sometimes the world stands on its head.
Protestantism in Scotland is a bit different to where you come from my friend. Over here it really just signifies that your not a Catholic or your a Rangers fan. Certainly in Central Scotland it is seldom if at all practiced. I know only 1 Protestant who has ever been to Church. Thats a pretty insane statistic considering its the State sponsored religion. I am always grabbed by the irony of Rangers fans booing Celtic players that bless themsleves, and singing songs like 'you only sing in the chapel' and 'Theres only 1 hair on the Virgin Mary's Fanny.' Hell when I was a kid I didn't even know Protestants were Christians. I remember it being a joke amongst my Protestant pals that I had to go to a Church on a Saturday evening for Vigil Mass. Ah well.....they were all envious as hell when i made my First Communion because I got a party and lots of cool $hit.
In the society I live in this film will do absolutely nothing than lead to me having to defend my faith at dinner parties. All I would say is that if your not part of the solution then your part of the problem. I'm not saying 'ban it' or anything so anarchic but really only 'what was the point?'
Other than dramatised , and gory details i don't think anyone is going to come away any more enlightened or informed.

[–] Kingum2341 19 years ago

Hmm.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] Dreika 18 years ago

First off.

There is more abuse and molestation in the public school system than any other institution, yet I never hear all these so called people who say they are concerned about kids...never go after the public school system. It seems constantly the Catholic Church, so that says too me they are simply looking for an excuse to tie a nouse out of personal bigtory.

Secondly:
I do not condone or believe in protecting child molestors in anyway. I do however believe that Cardinal Law in this siutation did not seek out to do that, I think perhapes he just didn't know what to do and honestly believed these men could change. As foolish and wrong that thinking may have been I don't think he was a badcardinal or evil man.
I would like to also add, that I do believe in "false memory syndrome" and "planted memories." That isn't just a theory either, it is something that is being greatly reserached especially right now, there is much light on the subject. So although I accept that these awful, deplorable things have happened to innocent children, and the victims need to be compensated somehow and the men who inflicted such travesties should rote in jail. I don't believe EVERY single case of any type of "recoverd memory" holds reverance.

For a long while, especially in the 80's and 90', many so called "counslers" and "therapists" claimed this "recoverd memory" idea...and I think because of their self proclaimed titles no one thought to question them. It was accepted because perhapes many do not understand thatpsychology is not considerd a "true" science...it is a humanity or pseudo-science. So it isn't like hardcore medical facts when psychologist or psychology makes claims such as this. It measures along the same lines as "exit counseling" or "cult deprogramming." That isn't taken seriously any longer, and most psychologist and people who study cults will say that "exit counslers" are just as bad, if not worse, than actual cult leaders themselves and their tactics were often times , not just barbaric, but out right illegal.

Thusly, "deprogramming" and "exist programs/counslers" are not used to "help" cults members to get out.

There are many books now about the false memory syndrome and how it basically became a "witch hunt" for awhile, inciting a lot of media "lynch mobs."

Unfortunatley, when people either create false memories for the various reasons people may ( to get attention, money, validation, take the blame off their own failures, or just to ride the bandwagon.) or when planted there by therapists who need patients for their bread and butter basically..it diminishes what REAL victims of abuse have to deal with their entire lives and the struggles they battle with forever.

So it makes me a bit angry how this whole "recoverd memory" nonsense seem to sweep through the minds of our culture...as if it is just some concrete truth. It was the same mentality and catalyst the "Satanic Panic" in the 1980's and other such cases similar to claims against the Catholic Church as well as notrious cases like the Friedman Case in the 80's. Which now has been well accepted as being "false" or "planted" memories. I am not going to get much into that. The documentary "Capturing the Friedmans" was pretty in-depth if anyone is interested in seeing it for themselves and making their own educated conclusions.

Anyway, the point is...I think similar principals apply to people who claim to care for children's safety but do not make attempts to harness the real problem where it stastically has been proven to exist. I feel that it is simple an excuse and red herring so to speak to attack the Catholic Church.

So in that sense, bashers have done much worse damage to the Church and society than they may realize. They are not helping anyone by launching misguided, hellfire and damnation attacks out of spite, envy and clearly ignorance and bias. They are perpetuating meaningless hate, ignorance and pushing people's awarness away from where the larger problem is spreading.

Saint: A dead sinner, revised and edited.