Not bad...but....


I just watched Control.....while it's certainly a good film in many conventional ways - and, by necessity needs to cover a lot of ground in a very short space - it failed to convey for me the sense of despair that clearly engulfed Curtis towards the end.

This is a film about Curtis and not strictly Joy Division, and while I think the performances are fairly strong across the board, I failed to get an insight as to why this guy was motivated to check himself out.

Yes I know the story very well, having first "discovered" Joy Division in 1980 so I'm well acquainted with what happened. (I even recall the oft-repeated but apocryphal story that he'd strung himself up across the road from his mother's place).

But I never got the sense of a life fracturing, of someone's core disassembling as he drifted towards taking his life. I saw terrible life events and set backs, but I didn't get a sense of an over-arching tragedy that would lead someone to take their life.

And it's not just because "suicide is irrational and irrational people do irrational things blah blah blah"....

For me, the underlying tragedy-pathos was missing in action in Control.






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I agree with you.
And I would also have expected that they would explore the creative methods of the band.

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why did there have to be an obvious public display of "over-arching tragedy" leading to his suicide? his wife was very involved in the making of the film so maybe, just maybe, the signs were only significant retrospectively. a more common thing than you realise.

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mmmm....well, because this was a story about Ian Curtis, and it culminates with his death, and the events leading up to it. I would have thought, therefore, that what motivated the guy to kill himself is worthy of some exploration.

I'm not asking for a public display of tragedy, I'm asking for an insight into his life and why he might have felt the need to do what he did; none of us know for certain why he killed himself, but we can suspect that the epilepsy, destruction of his relationship (s) and fear of the band getting too big probably had some role?

If we can agree on that, then perhaps the film could have done a little more to carry us along down that "sad and lonely path", instead of just walking through the part.

I'm not looking for answers to his suicide, we know what happened.

I suppose most of us who watched this would be familiar with his story, so the end was no surprise. But I'd suggest that someone who wasn't would sit there and go "huh", how did he end up dangling in his kitchen?

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depression isn't always easy to understand, especially by those who don't battle depression. An event can put you in a bad mood and make you feel depressed, but that sort of depression usually doesn't result in a suicide attempt (not a real one anyway). Depression that results from chemical imbalances (including drug addiction) or epilepsy exists regardless of events. That's why people feel so hopeless - there's no good reason to feel so bad. You know you should just buck-up and snap out of it, but you can't. Your brain is sick. Suicide is not something a "healthy" brain carries out. You may contemplate it and may even attempt it, but deep down you don't want to die. Someone who feels miserable every single day of their life probably wants to die.

I don't doubt there were signs, hell...he probably brought it up (we know he attempted unsuccessfully at least once), but I find it completely believable that someone with epilepsy was simply depressed, with nothing specific having happened to put him in such a state (and they didn't have today's meds so he very well may have had to battle those demons his hole life.)

I find it very telling that the (young) lead singer of a band on the rise to success could only see the negative. That's depression.

that's my 2 cents anyway.

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.....also, I'm not having a go at you, but in relation to the signs of suicide not always being overt, you are of course right, in some cases.

My father killed himself when I was 15. This in no way makes me a suicide expert, but I suspect in most cases there are always signs if people are prepared to look.

In Ian Curtis' case, I'd suggest there were many.

Indeed, his Belgian girlfriend in "Joy Division" says as much. She said that, during the recording of Closer, she was telling everyone that this was an epitaph, but everyone dismissed her.

Guess who was right?




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[deleted]

Indeed, his Belgian girlfriend in "Joy Division" says as much. She said that, during the recording of Closer, she was telling everyone that this was an epitaph, but everyone dismissed her.

Guess who was right?


I loved this film and it brought a tear to my eye, but had they included a scene where she talks to the band members, Tony Wilson and the record manager about this and focused on her side a bit towards the end, it would have been so much more focused and accurate.

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The first time I watched this movie I felt a strange disconnection from the main character, Ian. If this was to be in some way a biopic, I assumed there would be some expression of his inner life - as a movie like this should do - sharing someone's story.

But there was a lack of depth. I didn't feel engaged as I would have expected to be - after all, Ian on stage seemed a man who lived between two worlds. Yet the movie was filled with long forlorn looks against expressive stark backgrounds. And I suppose it was from these dark moments we were meant to understand loneliness, sadness, alienation, etc. But these moments didn't resonate because to me there was no "push", or a defined background that sculpted his life from the black and white photographs Anton once immortalised Ian in. In some ways the movie might have actually shown what it's like for anyone who was suddenly faced with the suicide of a loved one - you saw signs but couldn't act, then it happens and you wonder how it could have happened. If that was intentional on the part of the filmmakers, they succeeded.

So I can somewhat agree with the first poster's sentiment - it seems there is something missing from the story itself that would show me how Ian came to his final decision.

Of course, we could never know for sure what caused Ian Curtis himself to commit suicide, though we could obviously speculate based on the facts presented to us outside of this movie. This is just speaking in terms of the way movies work. It seemed a motivation was missing. I don't think anything needs or should be spelled out - showing is always better than telling in the medium of art.

So it would appear to me upon re-watching that this was beautifully shot. It was essentially pictures turned into moving pictures, simulating life. The movie then does not allow us to go any further than these people moving about a carefully framed setting in a certain time and space.

It is certainly gorgeous to watch, and the music and performances were spot on. Anton Corbijn is a photographer, and this is the language he uses. As viewers we have to glean Ian's story from him in this way. Not knowing anything about Ian beforehand, some viewers may be at a loss, but interestingly, knowing about Ian beforehand, some viewers, like myself, may still feel that same loss.

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Though it seems like the movie missed a lot of what might have precipitated his ultimate end, it could have been intentional. I had my first seizure last month and am becoming reacquainted with JD's material to maybe gain a greater hold on how I should deal with this new info. It is kind of perilous and it makes you reevaluate everything you are doing, and I think that the title gets at what it is like because you endlessly seek control over what is entirely uncertain and uncontrollable. While the medications are better, surgeries are available, and there is more knowledge about what it takes to balance the brain's chemistry, it still is utterly out of my hands. Combined with depression and insomnia, I am surprised it hasn't recurred, though mine may not be connected to epilepsy as such. Either way it does leave you feeling utterly wasted and worthless; even more so than depression in it's lesser iterations.

I'm not sure about my impression of the movie as I haven't watched it in awhile, but I think the bit about looking for signs is not unique to this suicide, but follows in the wake of anyone taking their life (and Sumner et al. have admitted to seeing it running through many of the lyrics). If anything I can take from this it is that he was pushed way too hard and needed some rest, but as someone who was depressed and already feeling guilty about seizing all the time and the tumult that this introduced into an already bustling atmosphere, it wasn't practical or something he was selfish enough to ask for. It is hard asking for help but even harder to admit you might need it. That is probably the prime lesson I have taken from my episode, but it definitely makes you go through every possible feeling, rationalization, coping mechanism, etc. that you can marshal.

In conclusion, this was based on his wife's memoir, so maybe gathering it in addition to some band members/producers perspectives would better illuminate what was going through his head.

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I don't understand why everyone insists on putting deep meanings into everything. The guy was screwed up in the head. Or, in less offensive terms for you fanatics, he was suffering from depression. Be it from drugs, possible divorce, whatever. He killed himself. And that's all there is to it.
Sometimes, in life, things just happen. There are no noble causes, no noteworthy reasons. It just happens. It just is.

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I do believe that everything does have a deep meaning--I don't think anything "just is" especially when we are talking about the very soul of people. Personally, I don't think that Ian Curtis was mentally ill at all; yes he suffered from a severe case of epilepsy, but I don't believe it was specifically this disease or his medications which drove him over the edge. I think that the epilepsy did depress him a lot but it was an element which only added up to his general view on life. I am under the impression that Ian Curtis found everything so absurd and was maybe afraid of living a bland "metro, boulot, dodo" life because that was something which he would have to face in some way or other. Really, our own, inner life and thoughts are so complex and are often extremely grim and full of confusion about the world and the fundamental issues that we will never understand, and it is not really socially acceptable to talk about this honestly. I think that Ian Curtis was very analytical about everything and ended up feeling much despair, and this probably began in his adolescence, a time when most people become aware of certain things and start to see the world in a different light. Personally, I find it hard to cope with existence in the first place, and perhaps Ian Curtis felt the same.
Anyways, I agree with the OP that there definitely was something important missing in the film. There is a scene though which I think conveyed some of Ian Curtis' despair: when Ian looks up at the laundry and the clothes that are hung up to dry and we can really see the anguish that he feels with regards to this sort of banal reality.

I don't want realism. I want magic!

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Just finished the movie. My ten cents:

I know exactly what you're talking about. The film doesn't contain any sort of traditional story arc culminating in Curtis' suicide and there did seem to be something missing.

But I think that this was the right decision. People sometimes make rash decisions without clear reasons. Curtis was going through a deep depression and made a choice. There is sadly little more to say. We can only imagine what was going on in his mind. It would be have been distasteful and disrespectful to the real Curtis if the film had presented an overly-dramatic disintegration to get the point across more clearly.

This kind of reminds me of discussions about the ending of The Dead Poet's Society when (SPOILER) the main kid kills himself. A lot of people objected because the film doesn't really establish that he was depressed to the point of taking his own life. I completely bought it, though. We can't always know what people are going through or what an impulse can lead them to do.


"I am trapped in this body and can't get out" - Radiohead

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I agree that it would be terrible to make an overly-dramatic script, and of course there is so much more that goes on in peoples' minds then what shows through on the exterior so it is naturally difficult to express more than what could be seen on the surface. I do however believe that an important part of filmmaking is to try to add layers and dimensions that cannot be immediately seen-in fact, this is important in all art forms. There's absolutely no need to add "drama" but there really is something else that's missing. I found, in fact, that "24-hour party people" gave a much better portrayal of Ian Curtis and Joy Division. I just felt it more.

I don't want realism. I want magic!

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Keep in mind it's based off of a book written by Deborah. The book ("Touching From a Distance") explains how she didn't really understand what he was going through.

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I think that Sam Reilly is a good actor but for me he didn't convey nearly enough of the intensity and despair that Curtis had. It maybe that it happened that way in Deborah's eyes but I thought it made the portrayal unconvincing which spoiled an otherwise interesting film.

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From what I've seen, I don't think Ian Curtis was like that in general, to me depression is sortof a feeling of nothingness rather than being sad all of the time, but to each his/her own.

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Depression isn't so much a feeling of nothingness, as it is something that literally sucks all the joy and meaning out of anything in your life. I would compare it to being out in the water, trying to keep your head above the surface and not letting yourself be pulled in by the undertow. That's what it's the equivalent of. It runs a bit in my family, and I experienced it years ago---that's how I know. People deal with it different kinds of ways.

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The movie's called Control. Ian's suicide was driven by a lack of control and I feel they tried to convey that emotion through the movie.

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