Rated R in the US


Have the MPAA guys totally lost their minds? Why would they rate this movie 'R'. I doubt it should even reach PG-13. Guess what rating Pulp Fiction has. ... You're right it's 'R'. Geez, that's totally twisted!!!

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Yeah, that's weird. The rating in the Netherlands is "6", which means the movie is suitable for age 6 and up. I guess it's "R" in the USA because of the gay themed movie... The same thing happened to Love Actually. A loving, warm movie but because of the scenes with the stand-ins for sex scenes the rating was "R". In the Netherlands Love Actually has the "AL" rating (AL = Alle Leeftijden; All Ages).

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I'm sure you know the US is not the Netherlands. This is a country obsessed with sexual taboos, especially when it comes to homosexuality. The frank, touching (albeit brief) sex scene between Tobi & Leo earned the film the R rating.

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Yes, I know that the US is different from my country. But what I don't understand is that sex in the US seems to be a bad thing... Homosexual or not. OK, it's not for all ages and "6" could be a bit low, but it's better than "R" in my opinion.

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in germany it's 12 - what's as weird as "R" - 6 is good.

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Well although I don't agree with the rating the U.S. has given it I kinda see there reasoning behind it. In the beginning of the movie there is if I recall correctly some light drug use (they smoked something before they left for the rowing competition) and masturbation (Achim and Tobi). Also Achim also has a sexual encounter with a girl in the woods. Although I am sure these reasons were not why the movie was rated R that might have been some of the reasoning behind it.

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[deleted]

To get a REAL idea as to how the MPAA rates movies watch this documentary which actually tracks down real members of the ratings board as well as analyzes their secretive process:

This Film Not Yet Rated - imdb.com/title/tt0493459

Oh and since this movie might have something to do with how they rate things, it was given a NC-17 rating.... for some unknown reason. LOL

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And that sexual experimentation by young people can lead to wisdom, something totally horrifying to retarded calvinists and their paid servants in the American media.



_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
If the Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard, It can also be like a chicken-pox mark.

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First of all, you said "sexual experimentation by young people can lead to wisdom." Maybe, but it also leads to pregnancies and STD's. What are you even talking about? Leads to wisdom? Just because you have sex when you're young doesn't make you wise (also, just because you abstain from sex doesn't make you unwise). Besides physical health risks, sex can also be damaging to relationships between friends (look at Achim and Tobi). I'm not saying adolescents should live in a bubble, but responsibility and maturity should be a major condition of being sexually active.

Man, I'm so sick of people who think it's OK to bash Christians and blame all the worlds problems on Christians just because they are a majority in the US. What if I had said that conservative Jews who control the American media were the ones who gave this movie an 'R' rating. Oh no, that's offensive, but it's OK to say whatever you want about Christians.

And by the way, "Calvinists?" Really? Do you even know who they are? What the hell does this movie have to do with Calvinism? They believe in predestination, total inability, and that salvation is decided by God's mercy (rahter than the morality of the individual). Calvinism teaches that people are prone to serve their own interests and desires. That's hardly contrary to anything in this movie. In other words, your comment about Calvinism was really prejudiced (albeit nonsensical), not to speak of your use of the word "retarded."

I apologize if I came off rude or you feel attacked. I'm not trying to be mean. It just really annoys me when someone think they're allowed to be prejudiced against straight men, Christians, or Americans just because that person has faced discrimination themselves.

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Yes, the poor Christian victims. So mistreated in this country, while so tolerant of others.

As far as sex being damaging to friendships like Achim's & Tobi's, there was no problem when they jerked off together. Sex didn't damage their friendship. You either didn't watch this movie, or you've got a serious problem with logic. It's only when Tobi tried to express his love that Achim freaked.

Your "abstinence doesn't make you unwise" comment is laughably defensive. Do you think staying off the tennis court makes you a skilled player? Abstinence as a lifestyle makes you an ignorant, inexperienced lover, in a poor position to gauge the sexual compatibility of a prospective mate.

Your Reefer Madness-like ranting about sex among teens leading to STDs and pregnancy is like something from a 1950s time capsule. Teens: engage in sex, and you will be punished! Interesting that you've not one positive thing to say about teenagers having and enjoying sex. One can only infer that your own sexual experiences haven't been happy--or that you've been brainwashed out of enjoying them at all.

Sex leads to STDs and pregnancy when people aren't taught to take precautions. This lack of frank, honest discussion on the topic is frequently found in -- oh, better not say. Jahuda's feeling might be hurt again, & she'd need to go on another tear about "Christian bashing". After all, the Christians never bash anyone. Certainly not gays, right?

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Whether or not sex can be damaging to relationships is something I don't really feel like writing about right now. But maybe on a different day...

Anyway, I never said teens shouldn't have sex; but I don't think that it should just be encouraged all the time as if sex is inherently good (for example, in Aulic Exclusiva's post). Obviously, if you don't or have never had sex, you won't be "skilled" (to extend your metaphor); but there's a lot more to sex than just being good at it, which is why I brought up the stuff about STDs and pregnancy. In other words, as long as people (teenagers or not) are safe and secure about it, and it's a consensual thing, then I think sex is a great thing.

And there's certainly a lot more to having sex than just looking at someone as "sexually compatible" or a "prospective mate." Whatever happened to sex being beautiful, intimate, or fun? Sex, to you, is just another "skill" for humans to practice, so one can increase their chances of successful mating when the biological clock rings? On the contrary, you're the one who doesn't have anything good to say about sex.

Man, again, you really missed my point. Of course there are Christians who bash other people, especially in this country. And they do not have the right to generalize gays, blacks, Muslims, whatever. But that doesn't give other people the right to do the same to Christians. What I meant earlier is that I'm sick of people being hypocritical about who they can and can't mistreat. I'm not worried about Christians for their sake; you're right, they're not exactly disadvantaged in the USA. I'm annoyed because some people, like yourself it seems, have backwards logic - 'it's OK to mistreat Christians because they are wrong for mistreating us.'

By the way, I'm 19 and have been having sex for two years now with different partners; I've been with my current girlfriend now for almost half a year and we're happy with each other in the areas of our relationship, including sex. I was brought up Jewish but now I consider myself agnostic. I smoke and drink on the weekends, too. Ideologically, I'm about as far from the conservative 1950s man as one could get. I'm all for sexual education in public schools (actually, I don't think there is enough of it, and when they do teach students about sex, it's usually not in the right way - 'Hey kids! here's a picture of someone with syphilis! And by the way, abstinence is the only smart choice'). Chances are, you and I probably agree on a lot of things. The only difference is that I stress responsibility, whereas it seems to you that anything that seems remotely rebellious is not without consequences.

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He's responding to my comments but is obviously aggrieved by someone else's. A cool, logical mind...

I never said the movie was in any way Calvinist. The retarded calvinists/puritans/fundamentalists/right-wing morons are the ones who wish to arrogate to themselves the faculty of telling other people what they can watch.

The relationship between Achim and Tobi was based on a lie that Tobi had to keep up against his better nature and personal happiness. It was sexual experimentation that led Tobi to give up lies and put his relationship to Achim, to Anke and to himself on a basis of truth. I'd call that wisdom.





If the Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard, It can also be like a chicken-pox mark.

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Ugh, you're not listening. You're right that Tobi's sexual experimentation was his path, or method rather, to freedom. But your definition of 'wise' and mine are obviously different. Tobi was changing, evolving, and learning about himself. In the midst of it, he sometimes lied, freaked out, lost control, cried, etc. Although that is not necessarily contrary to 'wisdom,' I take the word to mean that someone has good moral judgment, is well informed (maybe not on trivia, but certainly on life experience), and knows what to do in tough situations. To me, that doesn't fit the description of Tobi. 'Wisdom,' in other words, is not something you can learn simply / only by having sex. Although sex may or may not contribute, wisdom runs deeper than that, and it come from experience with intimate, private, and public relationships. Again, learning how to ! doesn't make you smart.

And please, please stop bringing up odd terminology like 'puritan' and 'Calvinist.' Wikipedia says it well in the following quote:

'In modern usage, the word puritan is often used as an informal pejorative for someone who has strict views on sexual morality, disapproves of recreation, and wishes to impose these beliefs on others. None of these qualities were unique to Puritanism or universally characteristic of the Puritans themselves, whose moral views and ascetic tendencies were no more extreme than many other Protestant reformers of their time, and who were relatively tolerant of other faiths — at least in England. The popular image is slightly more accurate as a description of Puritans in colonial America, who were among the most radical Puritans and whose social experiment took the form of a Calvinist theocracy.'

So, although not 100% inaccurate, you really need to stop dropping words like 'Calvinist' and 'Puritan' because, to be honest, your use of those words are relatively prejudiced. People like you holster some sort of self-righteousness that ignorantly and stubbornly views conservatism, moral and sexual purity, and religion as inherently bad. In reality, you impose your beliefs just as much as the people that scare you. Ugh, I could go on but I don't really feel like it anymore.

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By using overgeneralizations and condescending labels you employ the same closed mindedness that you claim to criticize. Especially when you're obviously not informed about what they entail. I agree with Jahuda. Also I think he sounds like he's probably extremely attractive.

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You would find "attractive" a holy-roller who quotes that open sewer, the Wikipedia, in which even people like him may contribute wisdom...So attractive, indeed, that it propted you to post for the first time ever!!

And can you explain the distinction between an overgeneralization and an undergeneralization?? I am obviously not informed about what such degrees of generalization entail.





If the Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard, It can also be like a chicken-pox mark.

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look man, eelizabeth86 is 9999 times more attractive than you'll ever be, so don't even play, playa.

Also, i happen to live in an open sewer and i consider myself like totally cooler than you. what you gonna do now? fool, don't mess.

fool, there is no such thing as an undergeneralization. but since you asked:

"overgeneralize | verb [ trans. ] draw a conclusion or make a statement about (something) that is more general than is justified by the available evidence."

i know that you're not informed about 'what such degrees of generalization entail.' that is because you suck and i hate you.

also, i'm not a holy-roller because i'm jewish. did you even check out my user name? GOD!

fool.

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Your wit is only surpassed by the elegance of your style.

What are you, a Jew for Jesus???



If the Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard, It can also be like a chicken-pox mark.

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yes i am a jew for jesus! you figured me out! you see? that's me in the picture...
http://theband.hiof.no/band_pictures/they_aint_making_jews_like_jesus_anymore.jpg
well done. i always knew you were a good judge of character.

since i am right all of the time, and you have yet to prove me wrong, and since the only thing you know how to do is spout prejudiced, ignorant, rhetorical cliches at the first person who questions your vague notion of 'liberalism', i think i'm done replying to you.

No Aulic, it's for the best. Shhhh, it's OK. We are obviously 2 very different people: one of us is a wise, non-retarded anticalvinist, and the other is a jew for jesus. Remember that I will always love you in my heart of hearts. And, truth be told, I've always thought you were just as attractive as eelizabeth86. Please take care of yourself.

With love exploding from my eyeballs,
Jahuda

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Hey buddy, how you doing? I know we had a little silent treatment thing going on, but I came across this thing while reading and I thought you would find it interesting. And I know you're not a fan of Wikipedia (I also hate free access to large amounts of peer-reviewed information and essays!), but don't worry because it's totally legitimate:

"But Thoreau also assimilated to elements of Calvinism. Without doubt, as his friend F.O. Sanborn said, there was in Thoreau, as in Emerson, a strong tinge of Puritanism... Both Calvinist and Quaker illuminationism influenced Thoreau, as did the Calvinist tendency to denigrate 'worldliness' and the monastic aversion to 'this slimy, beastly life, eating and drinking.' Walden is in the Puritan traditions of exemplary autobiography, manuals of conversion, and jeremiads."
-Arthur Versluis, American Transcendentalism and Asian Religions; Oxford University Press. New York, 1993.

In other words, those "retarded calvinists" that you spoke of are smarter than you'll ever be; you're talking about Thoreau for God's sake. They would tell you that sex in and of itself doesn't bring wisdom. Such an outlook is entirely materialistic. Now do you get it?

Probably not.

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aren't you being kind of negative? i get this vibe like you don't like me or something. did you really need to use two question marks and two exclamation points in your response? i mean i would gladly educate you about degrees of generalizations but i think one punctuation mark per sentence would suffice. and thanks for telling me what i find attractive. omniscience must be sweet. gosh, if i was omniscient, i would probably spend my time somewhere other than on this website, but then again i am only the lowly type who has to gather information from my surroundings before i can make inferences and form opinions, so don't take my word for it.

i get this feeling like you're mocking me and my newness to this board. you had a first post once! was it so long ago that you have forgotten? mr. high and mighty, "look at me i post all the time, i think i'll go beat up the new kid." laugh it up. but words hurt. it took me a long time to summon up the courage to post again after this traumatic first experience. i bleed blood like you, you know. remember that.

also, what did wikipedia ever do to you? are there any other innocent bystanders you want to bash while you're at it? please, don't hold back. don't stop until everyone and every group is aware of how imperfect they are. i'm so glad we have a flawless person in our midst who can pass out these judgements; can you imagine if they went around thinking they could be considered human and worthy of respect and dignity? really, i think you're on to something. what this world needs is a little less understanding and a little more judgement. people are just way too willing to listen to one another, i'm pretty sure that's why we have so many problems.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Jahuda - I agree with most of your post - the remark "if the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, then it could also be a chicken pox mark" is very flippant and ignorant. And before I get started, I'm a very nominal Catholic, not an extreme anything. Ignorant because the mustard seed refers to the fact it is one of the tiniest seeds but grows into a very large plant, almost a tree.

How does having sex lead to wisdom? Seriously, back up that statement with some facts. You can't just say that. I agree that having or abstaining depends a lot on the individual, but for most young people who have yet to decide on careers/college etc. a possible STD or pregnancy is not what they need, nor is it good for the child they produce (generally); and having observed up close - sex makes people (who are too young) think they are in love when they are simply confused by intense feelings. Having said all that, I also realize we have a conundrum here - hormones may be raging as early as 12 or 13 and society is "asking" people to delay sex until college is over. Not realistic. Don't know the answer. But certainly sex is an adult privilege so until you are capable financially and emotionally to take care of a child you may produce, then you are not an adult.

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Wow, I wrote these posts 5 years ago. Reading them made me cringe. I sounded very angry, yet I was arguing with strangers over bull****. I honestly have no idea what I was talking about in most the stuff I wrote in this message thread. I think I just got a kick out of acting like an idiot on the Internet. I don't remember this movie at all.

Also, I agree with everything you said. People can't stop young people from having sex, nor should they. I just hope people use protection. I don't know what I meant by the word, "wise".

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You (Jahuda) didn't write about having sex leading to wisdom. Aluca (mispelled I know) Exclusiva did. She is also the one who has the signature about the mustard seed and chicken pox. I don't think you sounded angry, just passionate. As I said, I agreed with most of what you wrote anyway. Apparently you didn't re-read what she wrote 'cause if you didn't what you did may sound worse now than when you wrote it.

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Ohh, OK, I was confused, but I misread what you said.

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Movies have been rated R for a lot less. This movie had drug and alcohol use, lots of partial nudity (the topless girl on the boat, when Sandra and Achim were in the woods, Tobi's butt, the scene on the docs), plenty of sex scenes and sexual suggestions (the dock, the woods, Achim and Sandra in the tent, implications of Tobi and the curly haired guy in the youth hostel, bananas, and practically every other scene), the use of the word fag (and maybe other words?), some violence and blood (the fight, the beginning when running through the woods, when the girl fell off the bike). Not to mention the entire topic of the movie is pretty controversial (stereotypes, homophobia, sexual orientation, exploration)...

'R' ratings aren't just about cursing and hard core violence.

Don't get me wrong though - The rating system in our country is pretty restrictive. I guess the whole idea behind it is that they wouldn't want kids and adolescents watching movies like this one and get the wrong idea, so they need 'parental guidance.' Personally, I give kids more credit than that, but that's just me.

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[deleted]

I could'nt have said it better myself. The movie did have drugs, alcohol, sex, bad language and that alone would earn an R-rating...without the topic of homosexuality.--I'm not saying that our rating system is fair though.

Now, I do believe that the movie was tastfully done and deserves more credit, but there was no way that this movie was going to get anything lower than an R-rating. I also believe that they should have just left the film un-rated OR (NR)...as they do with most foreign films. But thats just my opinion.

BTW, Brokeback Mountain was rated-R and it didn't have half the nudity or drugs and alcohol that this movie with youngsters has---hmm...what does that say about our Rating system?

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If you want to know the truth behind the MPAA, watch the documentary "This Film is Not Yet Rated." There is a big section of the film that deals with the hipocracy of the rating of gay-themed films.

The only reason you are still conscious is because I don't want to carry you.

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I would like to hear about it...why is it hypocritical? i love to learn new things so if you can feel me in I would appreciate it.

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One of the best segments of the documentary is a split screen of two different films, one portraying gay sex, the other showing straight sex. The two shots from the various compared films are virtually identical, yet, in every example, the gay movie received and NC-17 while the straight film received an R.

One specific noted biased rating was for the film "Because I'm a Cheerleader" where a masturbation scene (a woman masturbating over her clothes, no nudity at all) received an NC-17 while "American Pie" where Biggs, pantless, is f-ing a pie, received an R.

There are many more hipocracies about the MPAA revealed in the documentary, all of which show the MPAA for the facist, indirect censorship board that it is.

The only reason you are still conscious is because I don't want to carry you.

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amen

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If Leo would have stopped in the middle of the sex scene, taken out a gun and shot Tobi down instead of having sex with him (and enjoying it), it WOULD be PG-13 ... you've got the same problem with other good movies, e.g. "Imaginary Heroes" - in the US, it's "R", in Germany it's suitable for children of 12 and older.

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:-) I like the US Rating System...
Does this mean german kids of 12 would be considered gown up in the US??
No serious: There can be too much liberalism in rating of films, but I cannot see where Sommersturm deserves an "R". If parents have to worry about their childerns souls because of this film, then I think something is totally wrong with their education.

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Well ... the german rating system is as follows:

- FSK 0 ("unlimited", white)
- FSK 6 (yellow)
- FSK 12 (green)
- FSK 16 (blue)
- FSK 18 (red)

where "FSK" is short for "Freiwillige Selbstkontrolle der Filmwirtschaft" (Voluntary Self Regulation of the Movie Industry), the company that does the ratings as the MPAA does in the United States; the color I listed is the color of the label and the whole thing is based upon the german "Jugendschutzgesetz - JSchG" (youth protection act) which followed the "Gesetz zum Schutz der Jugend in der Öffentlichkeit - JÖSchG" (act to protect the youth in the public) that was valid until Mar 31st, 2004. Since 2004 you've got the same system for video games as well, but it's handelt by the USK ("Unterhaltungssoftware Selbstkontrolle", Voluntary Monitoring Organisation of Entertainment Software)

If a movie is rated "FSK 12", it means that it's "not suitable for children under the age of 12". My impression is that if there's only a little frontal nudity or something, it's pretty soon "NC 17"-rated in the US or at least "R", while violence is not a problem for a movie. In Germany, it's reverted: sex is not a problem, but violence is.

Back to "Sommersturm", in the audio commentary, Marco Kreuzpaintner also talks about this issue and he said that he first thought of enhancing the landing stage scene, but then they (him and the producers) had the fear that it might become too hard to the FSK to give the movie an FSK 12 rating ... and it's okay, everybody who ever was in a situation similar to the one of Tobi and Leo would know how they feel ...

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Well ... in German, there a saying: "Du sprichst ein grosses Wort gelassen aus", meaning (freely translated) "You're saying something important in a very equanimous way" - at least that fits the first part. It's an interesting way of looking at it.

But on the other hand, many things went wrong in germany the last years. The violence between youths increased, I don't know if you heard about the Gutenberg-Gymnasium in Erfurt (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erfurt_massacre) - that's only one example that lead to tightened youth protection laws in the following year (see my previous posting as well). Or the teenager in May 2006 at the opening of the Berlin Central Station (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Hauptbahnhof#Opening_ceremony), just two examples of a youth that's more and more violent. I'm really happy that I'm not a teenager anymore, I don't know if I'd like to grow up in a world like this.

Additionally, politics in Germany are getting tendencies like in the United States. Civil rights are abandoned due to "security". Our Minister of the Interior sees terrorists everywhere, and some people in germany think that the situation turns more and more into something that makes even George Orwell's "1984" a bedtime story ...

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[deleted]

Believe me, when I was a kid (by looking a my nickname you can imagine when I was born *g*), America (precise: the US) were a synonym for me for all the good things - the American Dream of a career from a dishwasher to a millionaire, freedom, peace, good music (I always preferred english music), and so on. I was 11 at the first "Desert Storm" and it was the first time I realized that there are still wars in the world; untils that time, I knew war only from my grandprent's tellings and a little from school. But then Clinton became President of the US and from our point of view, everything was better or at least more quiet.

And don't mistake germany to be too liberal. We've still got high politicians that think that homosexuality is a sin (although most of them accepted that it's not a real problem for society anymore). Yes, it's kind of accepted, but it depends on the point of, the society level and the area you live in. Especially Bavaria (and some parts of lower saxony) are extremly catholic. My best friend grew up in such a place, and when I told him that I'm gay (we were both ~ 21 that time), he abandoned every kind of contact.

If you really want liberality, then you should look to the Netherlands. Yeah, they do put mayonnaise on their french fries, and we also do not have quarterpounders in Europe (but Big Macs instead), but nevertheless it's a very nice country ;-)

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Don't know what rating it got in the UK but if it's any more than a 12, I'd be stunned.

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It contains brief full-frontal nudity. That is enough to warrant an R rating in the US.

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