MovieChat Forums > American Hardcore (2006) Discussion > My biggest qualm with this...

My biggest qualm with this...


Isn't the fact that certain bands were left out, but the fact that many people interviewed state (and the ending note is) that punk is dead. I wasn't there then, but I can attest that it still lives and is reinvented by kids daily who put on house shows, rent out halls, venues (ABC NO RIO or Gilman St anyone?) and play in bands. I imagine people who were there then will say it's not the same thing, but is that only because it's not the same bands, same time, or because you think today's punk is safe in comparison? Just because these people and bands had the first stab at hardcore, doesn't mean it died when their scene did. I'll say there is an over abundance of bands these days (warped tour friendly and not), but a lot of the same crazy s hit happens at shows. Granted a lot of the more mainstream bands today don't sound as pissed and have "sold out" doesn't mean they weren't playing with today's version of Black Flag a couple years ago. I don't mean to go off on a tangent, but I think punk/hc is always going to exist because there is always going to be a need for aggressive music; some of it the mainstream will except, some of it won't. But imagine if hardcore was accepted when it started, would it have gotten written off the way people write off punk today?

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Nicely said. I agree. Long Island has some great Hardcore music.

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Saying "punk is dead" is like saying "rock and roll is dead". Every generation grows up and claims that whatever they were into as young people is now "dead". It's as dumb a cliche as saying "music today sucks". Scenes come and go, styles ebb and flow. It's endless. There will always be great music. There will always be *beep* music. There will always be kids starting bands in their garages and stapling flyers to telephone poles. There will always be superstars *beep* out platinum records and *beep* porn stars. There are gnarly hardcore punks in 2007 and there were co-opted sellout poseurs back in '77. And there will always be plenty of both. Rock is dead. Long live rock.

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The music is still there and there are a lot of bands and people who have their hearts in the right place.
This movie sucked and Steve Blush, who wrote the book and movie, is an ass who went to shows. He was never part of the scene. This film just documents some of the bands... that would talk to him.

However, the HC scene was never the same again by the mid 80's. The success of some bands opened the doors to the less commited. The late 80's and parts of the 90's had a decent scene... but it was completely different. That's not to say there weren't good bands and good kids who came late, because there certainly were. But it was a truly underground self contained subculture that was a family and a world where all the misfits fit.

Here in NYC, I watched it change from a young HC punk in the early 80's on through to today. It was my life. I played in bands and booked shows as well. Along with Mike BS, I helped start shows at ABC NO RIO in 1989 when CBGB closed and before the holier than thou new PC elitists took it over. I was also one of the people booking HC punk shows at CBGB from the 90's on until it closed last year. I've watched the changes first hand. I know it sounds like a typical crotchity old man to say, but the scenes that followed were nothing like the scene of the early 80's. And that's a shame because I've seen so many new kids and new bands that would have been right at home there.

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[deleted]

Sorry Pal, punk is dead. It died in January 1978 when Lydon asked if you ever get the feeling you've been cheated. What you call punk is not punk. Hardcore is a more accurate term. And hardcore is just like Blue Grass or Mariachi music in that it's extremely formulaic and if you alter it at all it's no longer hardcore, or blue grass, or mariachi. The same can't be said of the original punk before it died.

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Everybody has their own definition of punk... I consider the hardcore scene to be the purest form of punk of all... but others feel differently. To the people involved with this scene, punk has been dead since the scene died. Personally, I agree.

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Five to ten years ago I might've agreed with you, but you have to understand that these bands didn't stand a chance in the unfavorable odds against them. In this age, Punk is more widely accepted; mosh pits, crowd surfing and crazy-energy; these are all accepted forms in the genre and what's to be expected. However, with these bands, nothing was to be expected other than they were young and they harbored a brutal, youth-driven force that carried them into the hearts of today's biggest Punk groups. The guys in the movie were right: they were in the perfect place at the perfect time for this kind of stuff to be appreciated and the majority of what you hear today that wasn't 50s pop-influenced (such as The Ramones or even NOFX) comes from the same intensity which these guys invented.
As for your last point, Punk is dead because it is no longer revolutionary, in the same rite that Rock and Roll is dead. Once you get to a certain point in any genre of music, you're only playing off your elders and Punk did this same thing -- it has nothing else left to evolve to but a younger version of itself now and therefore it's formulaic and predictable, right down to the very last detail of dress code. Sure, there will always be aggressive music because kids are always going to be in love with the fact that they're young, but in terms of the same emotion and need, the desperation for this small genre is gone.

At this point, there's no longer a need for it the way there was back then when there were no other options -- just a desire to (hopefully) recapture that same feeling.

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[deleted]

I am an old-school punk and HC guy who actually hung out with some of the people in this movie during the apex of HC punk.

And I love a lot of these folks...

BUT - YOU ARE RIGHT and MORE POWER TO YOU!!!

Don't let the worldview of old fartz like myself get in your way or cloud your vision. Rock on, good luck and have fun!

The only way to refuse tomorrow is to die. ~ Victor Hugo, Les Miserables

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"Did you ever get the feeling you've been cheated" I like to think of that moment as the clock striking 12 midnight, the rise was over and the decline had begun, and it's been declining ever since.

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