"The Black Hole"( a west coast punk and hardcore landmark) was originally inhabited by Mike Ness of Social Distortion. Nothing is said of this. Also subsequent scenes show Social D on the fliers. Are we to believe Social D weren't worthy of commenting on the scene? I am not saying Social D are a through and through hardcore band. But their earlier stuff is more hardcore than some of the other bands featured. It seems like an intentional shot at the band.
sharedid you read the book? the author says something about social d "remaining true to the game with their credibility firmly intact" or something like that. probably just couldnt get them in the movie its only an hour and a half.
shareWhat about Suicidal Tendencies? Granted, their sound varied during this time, but they're just as hardcore as any other band in the movie, if not more.
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by - alex-olivier on Fri May 18 2007 16:24:41 Not only Social Distortion, but they should have included NOFX, Reagan Youth, The Exploited, The Adicts, and Operation Ivy, and they barely even mentioned the Misfits, and Bad Religion.
Join bands like Anti-Flag in the fight...
wow,
the kind of self-righteousness you've displayed makes me sick.
what makes you the guru of punk-rock hardcore?
were you in the cro-mags or bad brains?
did you grow up in this "scene" in the 1980's.
i think you need to justify your s*hit before you run your verbal diarrhea.
so...reagan youth isn't hardcore?!
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by - chadcore_666 on Sun May 20 2007 07:42:06 wow,
the kind of self-righteousness you've displayed makes me sick.
what makes you the guru of punk-rock hardcore?
were you in the cro-mags or bad brains?
did you grow up in this "scene" in the 1980's.
i think you need to justify your s*hit before you run your verbal diarrhea.
"bridge 9 is the strongest hardcore label in the world right now and most people there would agree with me. "
bridge 9?! turdcore is what that label specializes in... I'd have to go with Deranged, Grave Mistake or No Way for real "hardcore punk" labels these days. Bridge-9 bands are so clean-cut and (relatively) mid-tempo...very uninspiring in my opinion.
and as far as Social D. they were def part of the overall early 80s HC punk scene, but unless you lived in OC back then, i doubt you'd consider them a focal point...i'd lump Agent Orange in that category too. Those bands started a year or two too early and obviously had outside "unpure" influences...
on a tangential side note, has anyone seen the Sin 34/Redd Kross footage...i think from the Slog movie. Sin 34 plays their 100% generic thrash and the HC kids go nuts...then Redd Kross play their 70s inspired glam punk (very odd in those days) and the kids are ABSOLUTELY bummed... in retrospect, kinda awesome.
i won't even delve into nofx or opIvy...
rock
matt
Everyone has an opinion on it. Chill a bit.
Speaking of the Cro-Mags and genre twisting, there use to be a DJ on Univ of Pittsburgh college station years ago that wouldn't play Cro-Mags on his punk/hardcore show because he claimed they were too metal.
But I also agree that if I had a say in what did and did not appear I would be hard pressed to include NOFX and OpIvy. That line between hardcore and punk is a blurry one but not that blurry.
have yous actually listened to nofx's "maximum rocknroll".
PUNK AS FOK
almost a mix minor threat and d.r.i
@cultoflunadoom:
Go home kid. You know nothing.
hahahah learn about hardcore kid. none of those bands are hardcore.
it's called american hardcore, not american new school punk or skacore.
you must be real young. but it's ok. i was too. gotta start somewhere. ok i apoligize for being mean, but you are wrong, none of those bands had any relation to 'hardcore' hell i'm surprised they included black flag considering most people from hardcore wouldn't consider them a hardcore band.
by - alex-olivier on Fri May 18 2007 16:24:41
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Not only Social Distortion, but they should have included NOFX, Reagan Youth, The Exploited, The Adicts, and Operation Ivy, and they barely even mentioned the Misfits, and Bad Religion.
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*American* Hardcore.....the Exploited and the Adicts are British. As for NOFX and Operation Ivy, both of those bands came a little later than the era covered in this movie. Reagan Youth, however, is right on the money.
[deleted]
by - alex-olivier on Tue May 22 2007 18:14:09 Okay yeah, I realized that the Exploited and the Adicts are British after I posted. But NOFX started in 1983. They only became known later on. Op Ivy started in 87, so I guess that is a bit later, but they at least deserved a mention.
Join bands like Anti-Flag in the fight...
http://www.peta2.com/OUTTHERE/o-save99.asp
[deleted]
see you're young. just because those bands had a little to do with something in hardcore doesn't mean they factor in the larger scale. NO ONE would think Op IVY was related to hardcore whatsoever. That is just silly. NoFX used to listen to Negative FX who weren't that big anyway and that was about it. That would be like saying Norma Jean should be included in the Nu-Metal scene because they started off as a nu-metal band, but then became a metal core band and then a math metal band. You're young.
alot did after these bands mentioned but it wasn't operation ivy, operation ivy were not influenced by hardcore, the stuff that came after was youth crew.
The Church of Samuel L. Jackson and Latter day Snakes
NOFX's older sh it (from 83 to maybe even 90) was "hardcore". However, they weren't a defining hardcore band of the early 80's. Their legacy would be much more suited for 90's rise of punk, because by then they had developed their staple sound.
As for NOFX not being in touch with hardcore today, I'd have to disagree - at least in regards to Fat Mike. He signed Sick of It All to Fat a few years ago, and currently has Strike Anywhere. He also wanted to sign either Government Warning or Wasted Time (I can't recall which), but they turned them down.
Plenty of bands should have been mentioned that weren't, but a music scene documentary isn't realistically going to be able to touch up on everyone. At the same time though, it is frustrating when some of the more legendary bands of the time don't get any mention. We always got the book.
about the whole 'no social D' stuff.
could it be legal issues? like there's no mention of the misfits and iknow thats b/c of a huge legal mess.
just wondering.
and op ivy were more just..i dunno what you'd call it. regular ol' punk rock then 'hardcore' at least in my eyes. i mean when compared with black flag, minor threat, etc.op ivy definently sound less of a hardcore-style band.
There is no government like NO government
Dude, these old posts of yours are great! You painted yourself up to be some kind of old school expert guru of hardcore, but every time you opened your mouth, you revealed yourself to actually be a clueless jackass. Thanks for the laughs, tool box! =D
shareExploited - The last time I checked they were Scottish.
Adicts - English
They are both great bands but I don't think either can qualify as AMERICAN hardcore.
Also, aren't Operation Ivy a Ska band?
Before I get flamed, sorry about flogging the dead horse. I should have read the rest of the posts before replying. BTW, I do think Social Distortion deserved mantion.
shareSocial Distortion may have been a part of the scene, but I think their early stuff was more punk than hardcore. The only exception might be "Mass Hysteria," but everything else was more punk-sounding.
And I can't really comment on the Anti-Flag/NOFX debate - I've never heard their earliest albums, so I don't know if they were more hardcore sounding. I think the movie was focused on a certain time period that these guys weren't a part of, and it would've been nice if they'd mentioned modern bands that have the 80s hardcore sound.
"Great, just jump all over me, why don't you?
What about the nine kids I DIDN'T lose this week?"
[deleted]
But The Addicts and The Exploited were British. The movie was about "American Hardcore"
shareThis is a documentary about American Hardcore punk, not punk, and not somewhat ironically not about hardcore (which isn't hardcore).
Social distortion and NOFX ect are in no way shape or form hardcore punk bands. They are completly different stlyes. I love early social D.
Words of Wisdom are of the Wise-The Wise Man.
Yeah, I really love Social D myself as well, and wondered throughout why they weren't really mentioned, why there weren't any interviews with any of their members. But, I guess I had to realize that yes, they were more traditionally punk than hardcore (not to mention the fact that with subsequent albums, they veered more towards cow-punk anyway, and covered many country artists throughout their career, thereby distancing themselves even further from any of these guys).
But yes, several fliers for their performances show up in the background of many of the deleted scenes, showing that they certainly weren't overlooked. And the R.I.P. section DID give a shout-out to Dennis Dannell, for what it's worth.
But yes, I gotta admit that it DID seem odd to think that Moby--maybe punk in his early days, but far, FAR from it nowadays--had been interviewed, while Mike Ness was not.
Nothing wrong w/covering country artists in punk songs (and i hate 99% of country, but give me a good cover and I'll listen lol).
And yea, it's hardcore (this movie i mean), where as social D is just straight up punk.
Just throwing it out there (about the country thing). the ONLY country artist i like at all is Johnny Cash. and i think part of the reason is, I mean come on, Johnny was punk rock before punk rock exsisted! lol
Punk Rock is freedom
There was always a kind of west coast vs. east coast thing back then....west coast had more "cowpunk" (Social D and X....Agent Orange with thier "surf sound") and the east coast had "straight edge"....the two didn't mix very well. bands like Black Flag and TSOL slipped in with the scene because they were there from the beginning and Henry Rollins had his east coast connections, so you could say he had an influence for that sound on the west coast.
I lived in OC and LA for a few years at the time. I was in the scene (part time...we also had neuro and goth already - Christian Death for example)...went to Cathay de Grand / Batcave / some other Hollywood clubs...OC house parties...met Social D when they were 17 backstage. Hung out with OC bands like House of Cards and Love Canal....but also some heavy metal bands like Leatherwolf....fun times.
West coast was more musical and more introspective. East was more political and hardcore (lot of it coming from Washington DC and actually a little later). They were different.
I only watched part of the movie so far, but it seems to have an east coast slant as far as bands and what they talk about. If you want more of what the west coast was about watch "The Decline of Western Civilization".