WORST MOVIE OF THE DECADE - The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada (2006) Discussion

[–] spittle8 17 years ago

The plot was rather absurd, and I am about as hawkish as you get on immigration, but even I was able to get past that and enjoy the movie. Every character was despicable. Tommy Lee Jones was screwing married women, as was Melquiades; Pepper's wife was cheating on him; Barry Pepper broke a woman's nose, etc. It was kind of silly to have Melquiades screwing Barry's wife, yes, and it was more absurd to have the border patrolman break a womans nose without provocation. Getting past this, accepting it is a biased movie written by a Mexican, I think you have to accept that, by the end of the movie, this is a very good movie. The writer got in his absurd jabs, but he evens it out by making everyone pretty much equally despicable.

Also, it's worth noting that Pepper was obviously a terrible husband. I'm not saying he deserved to be cheated on, only that that marriage was portrayed as being on very shaky grounds to say the least. I think it's a shame to miss out on all the good in this movie because of your political beliefs. I'm a Texan. I know what illegal immigrants are like. I know this movie is fantasy. I know they're not these honest, hard-working, charitable, personable individuals. A minority of them actually are. However, this was a very good movie, and I think if you give it another chance, you might see that and get a good experience out of it.

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] johnpetro 17 years ago

correct me if i'm wrong but aren't all americans immigrants? anyway not trying to provoke here, i'm not even from the same continent as you.. and trust me, americans not wanting mexicans in their "homeland" appears as a big joke to the rest of ..the earth population.
perhaps you should know too ;)

getting past this, no... the point of the movie was not to show that "Despicable characters should get away with being rotten".
my personal view of this movie is that it was, in a way, studying how humans' emotions toward one another develop.. how relationships between couples/friends/aquaintances develop and ultimately how in real life there are no ethics, no morals. anything can happen..

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[–] gosundancekid 17 years ago

this film is one of the best ones in the last ten years

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[–] Travis1960 17 years ago

Quote by johnpetro
"correct me if i'm wrong but aren't all americans immigrants"?
____________________________________________________
Why is it people can't see the difference between "legal immigration" and "illegal immigration"?

I just don't understand why people can't see this!

"History is a cruel trick played on the dead by the living"
- Old Vaquero Saying

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[–] Andela 17 years ago

Probably because the European settlers who originally came here and turned this into America stole the land from the people who were already on it, and stealing is illegal. The only reason what European settlers did back in the day isn't considered illegal is that they had the military power to turn their theft and murder into law. Mexicans who come here are just looking for work, they're not even trying to steal our land, kill us off with guns and disease, hook us on alcohol, and resettle us in undesirable patches of land that are of no use to them. Really, who gives a $h*t if they "use our tax money without contributing to it (except for filling an essential if hidden part of the economy before their children, educated here and English speaking, grow up to become a 'legitimate' part of the economy)." What else is the government going to spend it on? A $500 screwdriver?

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[–] JerseysRay 16 years ago

What was the last word from the Cherokee about legal immigration into America? I don't recall hearing about any big statue they had erected inviting Europe's tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

At no point does the movie make the claim that all illegal immigrants are hard workers, just Melquiades.

At no point does the movie make the claim that all border patrol are violent sociopaths, just Mike.

At no point does the movie make the claim that all sheriffs are impotent, just Belmont.

The border dispute isn't the point of the movie, it's just the setting.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] kevinmurray045 17 years ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everyone an immigrant unless they live in Africa? Does your country not have immigration laws? I'll bet you have free health care too. Maybe we should let everyone in and give em welfare.

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[–] dearmond-1 17 years ago

It seems that you may have forgotten that Texas was once part of Mexico before it became a republic and one of the 50. Sure, they are all immigrants in a stretched meaning of the word. However, weren't the original aboriginals and the ones who apparently followed a millenium or two later immigrants as well? The only humans we may consider not the be immigrants are the Africans who live in Eastern Africa which it is academically believed to be the heimat of the modern human species?

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[–] cengelm 16 years ago

- "Despicable characters should get away with being rotten"

That's a good interpretation. Why not?

In fact you should act within the rules of the law. Norton(Pepper) should have reported about his killing and undergo eventually a trial. Probably he wouldn't have been sentenced. Jones took the law in his own hands and was guilty of kidnapping, hurting and torturing.

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[–] bertrambunter 16 years ago

Johnpetro: You ask to be corrected if you are wrong - well you are, so here goes.

First off, I hope you realize that anyone from anywhere on earth is entitled to enter say, the EU, specifically the UK and settle there - afer all everyone in the EU has been an immigrant or is descended from immigrants at some point in history, and your efforts to keep out the hordes of would be new europeans all wanting their fair share of your freeby goodies on offer looks like a bit of a joke to us - and I know it is a matter of open amusement and contempt to foreigners such as Americans.Not trying to provoke here, of course.
I mean, why on earth would I do that, you're obviously so even handed and open minded whenm it comes to anything to do with America/Americans.

Now, FYI, what Americans object to is not immigration as such, but undocumented immigration. People have needed some sort of documentation to enter and settle the US since very early on, everyone else has had to meet some sort of entry criterion, and those not able to do so have been rejected - and most of us, including many settled latinos, are dismayed at the dog's breakfast that the US immigraton system has descended into - much like your own immigraton 'non-system', of course. We in the US do at least retain the power and authority to deport undesirable undocumented aliens. Not doing too well at that in the EU are you? Have to hang on to them and pay for their upkeep, mostly, don't you, because their rights to stay trump the government's rights to deport. Nice one!!

The world is in a state of flux - with huge movements of peoples - fortunately, we in the US are better equipped to deal with this, having such a large land mass and plenty of space, than you losers (ooh, sorry, not meaning to provoke) in Europe with your overcrowded little countries, roads, accommodation and social systems all straining at the seams and in some cases already imploded.

So, as you say, anything can happen - and it is happening now in the EU - so lotsa luck with that. Hope this has helped to educate you to the true state of affairs vis a vis world wide immigration.

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[–] haggar 14 years ago

First off, I hope you realize that anyone from anywhere on earth is entitled to enter say, the EU

Will the flood of BS ever stop? No, I guess it won't.
I happen to live in EU, but you don't need me to tell you that that not anyone can enter the EU and settle. Only LEGAL immigrants can.

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[–] fierackas 12 years ago

Interesting. The film portrays the Border Patrolman as a wanker. The American bigots on this thread seem to qualify for his job.

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[–] chas437 12 years ago

Yeah. I think this film requires a certain level of intelligence to like. This thread is for those who don't have it.

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[–] jtpaladin 17 years ago

No question, this was a pathetic film.

Let me get this right:

Mel lies about having a family and where he lived, he has sex with a married woman, and is an illegal immigrant. And we're supposed to feel sorry for him?

And Mike's wife says that Mike is "beyond redemption"? This stupid whore has the guts to say that when she is nothing but an adulterous whore?

Yeah, right, good movie.

--------------------------------------
America put the "fun" back into "Fundamentalism".

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[–] gosundancekid 17 years ago

jtpaladin

"Mel lies about having a family and where he lived, he has sex with a married woman, and is an illegal immigrant. And we're supposed to feel sorry for him?"

no, we're not supposed to feel sorry for him

"And Mike's wife says that Mike is 'beyond redemption'? This stupid whore has the guts to say that when she is nothing but an adulterous whore?"

i don't think she is a whore. a whore is either a lady who prostitutes herself for money - she never did such a thing - or it could be a woman with no morales linked to faithfulness. well, this isn't true about her either

now let's see why she said that her husband is beyond redemption

a) it has a symbolical meaning. the film deals with one of the christian values, murder - even if he isn't actually guilty of murder

b) she is talking about their love for each other which either never existed or just died away. furthermore she talks about her husband who actually "rapes" her repeatedly

this film is nothing but 'pathetic' as you put it. you should try to use your brain before you post some complete rubbish

Andrea

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[–] erinfection 17 years ago

Well said Andrea.

I knew when I saw this film that a few narrow-minded Americans would jump to the defence of the border-patrolman and start hating on immigrants.

Much of the beginning of the film had very obviously pointed out the fact that he was a very racist and thoughtless man. He broke a woman's nose and was reprimanded by his boss for it, and shot a man without putting much thought into it at all (he did have the option to drive away after all).

White people in America seem to forget very quickly that their ancestors were immigrants. Their great great great grandparents came to America to make a better life for themselves. Suddenly it is wrong for anyone else to want to do the same? Who are you calling immigrant, pilgram?

On a brighter note. I thought this movie was outstanding. Some of Dwight Yokam's scenes were hilarious. The alienation theme in all of the characters was very moving as was Melquiades wish to be buried somewhere beautiful - "I don't want to be buried on this side among all the *beep* billboards".

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[–] zeos-threeeightysix-sx 17 years ago

"White people in America seem to forget very quickly that their ancestors were immigrants. Their great great great grandparents came to America to make a better life for themselves. Suddenly it is wrong for anyone else to want to do the same? Who are you calling immigrant, pilgram?"

And so called native americans seem to very quickly forget that their ancestors were immigrants. Their great great great great grandparents came to america to chase big game. Suddenly its wrong for white people to fight for a land and call it their own.

In all seriousness though why is it that when a bunch of, in my experience, yankees get nervous that they might have to look at more brown people the rest of the world goes ape poop, but when for example switzerland bans building of minarets (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6676271.stm) there is little or no criticism.

I liked this movie though and I don't understand what is so terrible about it. Its a good story with fairly accurate portrayals of the peoples and places represented. Why is it that some people always want to think that fiction is real life and that the people and places in fiction are 100% accurate. If fiction used average people in average settings it would be boring. So when you see a border patrol agent jump off an arroyo and tackle an illegal immigrant and then punch the girl in the nose; that is not what the average border patrol agent does and I doubt that this movie is trying to say that is what border patrol does in real life.

"Much of the beginning of the film had very obviously pointed out the fact that he was a very racist and thoughtless man. He broke a woman's nose and was reprimanded by his boss for it, and shot a man without putting much thought into it at all (he did have the option to drive away after all)."

I disagree with this, the character may have been racist but nothing in the movie led me to believe the character was extraordinarily racist. To me the scenes leading up to and including the tackle and the punch are meant to show him as a young over zealous law enforcement agent. His boss only cares about the maltreatment of illegals to the extent that he will be held accountable for his subordinates actions. As to the shooting, it looked to me that he thought he was being fired on and he returned fire. I am no police officer but I would be surprised if ANY law enforcement official (and border patrol is a law enforcement agency) would say that driving away after being shot at is a legitimate or legal option. The reason he hid the body can also be chalked up to a young man who is afraid for his job. I saw nothing in the movie that suggested he was firing on the man he killed because he hated mexicans.

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[–] erinfection 17 years ago

racist/extraordinarily racist - is there really a difference? If someone is racist they are a bad person, it doesn't really matter to me how extraordinary their racism is.

"And so called native americans seem to very quickly forget that their ancestors were immigrants. Their great great great great grandparents came to america to chase big game. Suddenly its wrong for white people to fight for a land and call it their own."

Ah, you compare "chasing big game" to the genocide of Native Americans? Some of the worst atrocities against indigenous cultures in history happened when Native Americans were colonised by Europeans. The impact of which is still being felt today.

"In all seriousness though why is it that when a bunch of, in my experience, yankees get nervous that they might have to look at more brown people the rest of the world goes ape poop, but when for example switzerland bans building of minarets (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6676271.stm) there is little or no criticism."

Well we're talking about a movie based in America not Switzerland. I agree that colonized countries all over the world are xenophobic though.

In relation to the shooting - what I was trying to say is that he seemed to return fire without really assessing the situation first. He just grabbed his gun and started shooting in a state of panic, while pulling his pants. Maybe that is how law enforcement/border patrol are trained to respond to a situation like that.

It's an awesome movie though.

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[–] zeos-threeeightysix-sx 17 years ago

"racist/extraordinarily racist - is there really a difference? If someone is racist they are a bad person, it doesn't really matter to me how extraordinary their racism is."

Yes there is a difference, everyone and I mean everyone is racist to a certain extent whether they are willing to admit it or not. To me it is extreme when not only does someone admit but are proud of they're racism.

"In relation to the shooting - what I was trying to say is that he seemed to return fire without really assessing the situation first. He just grabbed his gun and started shooting in a state of panic, while pulling his pants."

That is a good point, he probably could have slowed down and assess the situation a little better.

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[–] erinfection 17 years ago

"Yes there is a difference, everyone and I mean everyone is racist to a certain extent whether they are willing to admit it or not. To me it is extreme when not only does someone admit but are proud of they're racism."

I'm not racist. But after reading this and searching deep inside myself, I guess I don't really like white people too much.

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[–] kevinmurray045 17 years ago

You're not racist? If you had to bet a million dollars on a basketball game, would you bet on a team of white people or team of black people? If you knew nothing else, would you choose a German or a French guy to fix your car?

I think it's clearly wrong to discriminate against people or to rule someone out because of your prejudice, but if you don't think theres a difference between the races, you're just an idiot.

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[–] erinfection 17 years ago

"You're not racist? If you had to bet a million dollars on a basketball game, would you bet on a team of white people or team of black people? If you knew nothing else, would you choose a German or a French guy to fix your car?

I think it's clearly wrong to discriminate against people or to rule someone out because of your prejudice, but if you don't think theres a difference between the races, you're just an idiot."

That first paragraph makes no sense to me. I think there is definately a difference between racial groups culturally, but it ends there. If you think there is more to it then feel free to enlighten me with your odd ideas based on stereotypes.

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[–] Andela 17 years ago

I'm not racist. But after reading this and searching deep inside myself, I guess I don't really like white people too much.

I'm going to assume you're being ironic because no one could in all sincerity say "I'm not racist, but I don't really like an entire group of human beings." Could they? I know the politically correct culture at large likes to insist that it's okay for non-whites to hate whites because we're ever so much more evil than every other greedy, selfish bastard on the face of the planet, but just because the culture at large says it's okay to hate on a certain group doesn't mean it actually is, no matter what kind of justification gets provided. While you're busy hating white people for the supposed sins of their forefathers (SOME of the white people, and only SOME of their forefathers), remind yourself that it's white people who came up with the idea of slavery as morally reprehensible, a concept unheard of in human history until white Mennonites and Quakers in England and America objected to it publicly beginning in the 17th century. Slavery is socially and legally repugnant today in America, whereas it's still practiced in very non-white places like Africa, the Middle East and Asia. White people do and have done bad things. Guess what? So does everybody. Cruelty and oppression is not a genetic trait linked to skin color.

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[–] erinfection 17 years ago

I was being ironic.

And I'm white.

Your post reminds me of why white people (who get so defensive about these kinds of things) really hate taking responsibility for anything that makes them feel guilty.

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[–] bertrambunter 16 years ago

It's not possible for white people of the current generation to take responsibility for what their forefathers did. They had no control over the situation. The best they can do now is to help ensure that everyone is treated equally - and that means everyone, OK? Including the whites themselves. So no guilt, no reverse discrimination, affirmative action based solely on economic considerations and NOT on race - and we'll all move forward together. After all, no one blames young Germans for their nazi ancestors, do they??

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[–] ianster00 16 years ago

I presumed that he was white, and was being ironic.

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[–] zeos-threeeightysix-sx 16 years ago

I'm not racist. But after reading this and searching deep inside myself, I guess I don't really like white people too much.

you're a saint.

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[–] speedo58 12 years ago

I thought we were going to discuss the movie,

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[–] Andela 17 years ago

...everyone and I mean everyone is racist to a certain extent whether they are willing to admit it or not.

Bull$h*t. This is like a guy who cheats on his wife saying all men cheat on their wives. But then, I think this fundamental failure to see that people are different from one another also lends itself to racism, i.e. "all those X's are alike," (of course in some negative way). Not everyone is racist, just everyone you choose to hang out with. If you're like most people, you probably surround yourself with people who think like you, and don't really register those who don't. Obviously you completely deny the motivations of people who say they're not racist--they're "just not willing to admit it." It doesn't occur to you that maybe they really, genuinely just don't think like you do.

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[–] blaine3-2 17 years ago

and Mexicans with the open borders fanatics forget that THEIR ancestors were WHITE Spaniards who took the land away from the Aztecs, Mayans, and the north American Indians in Texas etc etc and enslaved its inhabitants) and their Indian ancestors the Aztecs and Mayans were bloody imperialists who enslaved other tribes and committed mass murder human sacrifice in the 10s of thousands.

Furthermore the US and the rest of the world DID NOT RECOGNIZE Spain's claim to any of North America. The Mexicans are lucky the US paid them for everything except Texas, and remember Texas inhabitants both Mexican and and the US immigrants revolted against the Dictator Santa Ana in fact a number of Mexican states were in revolt against Santa Ana, Texas was the only one that won that civil war. Later Texas decided to join the USA by treaty, so anyone that says the US TOOK Texas is incorrect, the citizens of Texas VOTED to join the USA.

As for the movie it is a sick piece of garbage that turned my stomach.

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[–] JerseysRay 16 years ago

Wow, what a juvenile view of history. It amazes me how many Americans really buy into the whole "good guys vs. bad guys" view of history that they learned in elementary school. It's embarrassing.

I suppose you'd like modern-day Mexicans to apologize to other modern-day Mexicans for the bloody deeds of the Aztecs? Beyond retarded.

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[–] bertrambunter 16 years ago

Hey. Earinfection - yeah I know, it's erinfection: Look, why can't you people understand. The great great great ever so many greats grand ancestors who came to the US from elsewhere had to pass some sort of entry criterion.What do you think Ellis Island is? A lump of bird s*** in a dirty river?? And believe me, if they didn't qualify they didn't get in. They had to prove to the immigration officer, who, BTW, was usually Irish, that they would never cost the country anything - if the officer deemed otherwise a big LBC (liable to become a charge) label was stuck on their coat and they were sent back, no matter how 'white' they were. Incidentally, by singling out white people for criticism you have given away your racist POV, did you realize that??

No. it's not wrong for other people to want to better themselves - what is wrong is that they claim special privileges for themselves to be able to do it. They want to walk across the border, claim instant citizenship, and spread out to parts of the US where their 'ancestors' never lived, drive, claim welfare and social security, all without showing one item of ID, or abiding by laws. They do actually sometimes have social security numbers, but 9 out of 10 are fake.

Soo - I hope you now understand better now how things work here and the difference between that and how they actually do work, or don't as the case may be.

Hasta luego, inmigrante!!

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[–] dearmond-1 17 years ago

The movie is good. Some of the characters of the movie are pathetic.

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[–] thomasgore3rd 17 years ago

I have to say that I think some are really looking really deep into this movie, and making it more about politics and racism when its more just a twisted tale of lies, mistakes, and revenge. Its obvious that this was movie was written in "Pulp Fiction" style, which is aggrevating, because in my mind, only Tarintino can pull off putting movies in an out of time order, and we still can have a great understanding of what is going on. I thought that the character development was horrid, and we dont ever get a real feel for what is going on. To sloppy, to all over the place, and Jones, with his usually tough guy and stone face peformances, is so soft here, and this role just doesnt fit him. This is a bad movie, and for people to say its a great western is really reaching. A great western is The Man with no name triology (well thats three), The Searchers, Tombstone, or Unforegiven just to name a few. There is a reason that the film hasnt gained much popularity, as a few people mentioned. Its terrible. It has a very small following and to those they love it, but I think the masses agree this isnt a very good film and I rather spend my two hours watching grass grow

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[–] cbyoung123 17 years ago

jtpaladin, you're entitled to your own opinion, but didn't melquiades just listen to music and dance with mike's wife? the whole theme of the making up his family, might have meant that he had a sad life, and wanted to pretend to seem as if he accomplished something.
i happened to enjoy the film, i don't really think it was pro-illegal immigration, but people just think too deep into films sometimes.

www.freewebs.com/filmnerd

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[–] encomium 17 years ago

Since when does the quality of a movie has to be judged based only on the morals or political ideas of a viewer? Should all movies have a story which satisfies someone's personal "values" with no consideration for cinematography, for the complexity of the characters (likeable or not)?

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[–] erinfection 17 years ago

I'm not sure what you mean. All I can say is that I think this movie would have been alot better if some middle eastern terrorists had been blown up and America saved the world from a nuclear disaster.

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[–] archsleep 17 years ago

Hell yeah!

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[–] jamesroo 16 years ago

WORST MOVIE OF DECADE? u havn't seen too many films have u.for acting
and basic story it was good. wheather the politics bothered u is another
matter.

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[–] BlackShotzy 16 years ago

Of course the movie is not extolling the virtues of immigrating illegally. And who says it has a "message" as if we are supposed to glean some sort of poignant lesson from it.

Take it for what it's worth. Analyze the movie as it pertains to the characters and the story but go no further.

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[–] bertrambunter 16 years ago

Jerry: This is an 'if only; movie written by a mexican who quite obviously hates, loathes and envies americans. It is an orgy of loathing, in fact, and a fantasy of humiliation of the gringo. Like you I always had a lot of time for TLJ, but his connivance at this hate fest against, lets face it, people just like himself in real life, wealthy, white, anglo, polo playing harvard graduate, has made me think again. I have, in fact, lost all respect for him.

Let's just think about the salient points here:

1 The Mike character was only working as a border guard because he had been unable to get any sort of decent job where he lived, which I believe was somewhere up north.

2 He shot the guy only by mistake, returning fire as he was meant to do - hello, border guard!, and anglos are kidnapped, murdered and raped by illegals and incursors from Mexico all the time in that area - this is a matter of fact.

3 The illegal mexican was screwing Mike's wife - had the situation been reversed he'd have cut Pepper's throat in a heartbeat and left his body for the coyotes.

4 TLJ abducts Pepper, subjects him to prolonged torture and kidnaps him across not only state lines, but international borders - a capital offense.

All these immoral, illegal and despicable acts are justified by the writer simply because Pepper is white and has accidentally shot the mexican who was screwing his wife.

This is blatant racism of the worst kind, and had the situations of the characters been reversed there would have been riots in LA, demands for the movie to be withdrawn - La Raza members may possibly have brought filming to a halt prior to completion, anyway, andlaw suits agaisnt the producers, actors, etc.,

What message is being sent here = that it's OK to kidnap, torture, and humiliate white people simply for being white??? And anyone from south of the border has the right to enter the US, live, work and collect welfare there, and anyone who has anything to say about it should be killed?

BTW, the two border patrolmen who are languishing in jail for doing their jobs and giving chase to and wounding a known mexican illegal immigant who was up to no good are themselves mexican americans. I suppose the writer of this hate filled racist diatribe would regard those two as traitors.

This film is a disgrace, and so is TLJ for lending hisname and support to it.

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