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Jensen Certainly Knows His Bible; Interpretation and Spoilers


It is pretty obvious that the writer/director ,Jensen,is a very educated intellectual fellow.Today,I sat down with my philosophy professor husband,to bandy the film about.He is very familiar with the Bible's Book of Job and helped greatly in my interpretation of Jensen's story.

Note* :for all of you purists out there, I am not saying that this film is a literal depiction of the Book of Job, but many many elements from the Book inform the film's story and deepen one's understanding of the film.

Without exploring all the ancillary Job references,I am now interpreting the film basics as:

Ivan is Job, keeping his faith in the goodness of God through all manner of
bad experiences. Like Job, he lives an exemplary life.He never does one physical act of violence; like Jesus, he turns the other cheek and SEES the positive, everywhere the love of god.It's possible that, while the viewer may think he's 'lying'- about his son and his wife; maybe FOR IVAN those WERE his experiences. I.e. Ivan wasn't INSISTING on seeing the good in everything; that's just what he ACTUALLY SAW.

Adam is Satan."I am evil". Ivan tells Adam that god always conquers satan, and sure enough, Adam's framed hitler portrait, Evil incarnate, falls off the wall (= succumbs) every time the power of god (the church bells, Ivan)visits the room! Adam/Satan's purpose , as in the Book of Job, is to take away Job's faith in god.After many attempts, he thinks he has achieved this when ,in the church at night, he penultimately confronts and beats up Ivan and then head-butts him , and Ivan falls to the floor," bleeding from all orifices." Adam is convinced he has won. But when Adam/Satan then walks out into the storm, he is witnessing the wrath and all-consuming power of God who says, "Oh Yeah? You think verbal abuse and head-butting are power? Watch this!!" and proceeds with the electrical storm(during which he takes away the light from Adam's flashlight!)and the destruction of the tree.I'm tempted to say that God implied to Satan ,"You tried worms, You tried your Satanic crows, but they both failed. Now HERE'S how to destroy an apple tree."

Near the end, the ancillary characters go off to finally heal themselves.
And Satan becomes human, i.e. capable of compassion. Satan gave humanness a dry run with the gas station incident, but he is really transformed when he bakes the pie (Altruism = Compassion =Humanity). By 'eating the apple'(pie) Adam/Satan becomes human, gaining compassion and faith in the process.That teensy tiny whisper of a smile on his face when he eats the pie- says it all. And then, of course, there's the final scene. Jensen could have ended the film with the pie eating but he wanted to show you the evidence of 'god conquering satan' with Adam being the proof.

Now, I'm not saying Jensen's actual beliefs have any part in this film. I'm just explaining the parable as I think he presented it.

What a fascinating and multilayered piece of work.Anything to add?










Ad hoc, Ad loc, Quid pro queeee,
So little time and so much to see

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Yes, I agree with what you've written. I loved this movie.

The film is definitely parabolic (it's the only way to excuse some of the hamhanded symbolism and the improbabilities like a pastor whose entire congregation is made up of 4 or 5 misfits).

I also thought that the movie made these interesting points:
1. To relentlessly believe in the redeemability of others is, by human standards, delusional...yet this is the attitude that saves the world.
2. Our human frames are not meant to contain these contradictions...this is why Ivan grows a brain tumor and why he bleeds from the ears when faced with the fact that his son is paralyzed...

The movie was brilliant. People sneer when you use terms like 'life-affirming' but this was it!

And then at the end it starts all over again.


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YES!!!!! brilliant thinking. you have definitely shown yourself to be my reason for posting on IMDB- receiving thoughtful responses that open new windows to me.
That first point of yours is really truly the film in one sentence. We should try to converse further; maybe we could discover some film gems through each other's 'lists'. thanks so much.









Ad hoc, Ad loc, Quid pro queeee,
So little time and so much to see

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Intriguing readings, both of you. I am usually opposed to symbollic readings where A means B (Susan Sonntag's essay "Against Interpretation" always lurks at the back of my head), but your readings show an interesting quality of reasoning. However, there's always this temptation to disagree...
First of all, Job, unlike Ivan, accepts his fate. There is no delusion about Job. True, they both share their unwavering faith in God, and they are both 'tested'; however, Ivan - unlike Job - believes it is a test (which Job didn't know, for obvious reasons).
Secondly, interpreting Adam as Satan is scarcely as transparent as it may seem at a first glance. I do consider your interpretation beautifully flawless; however, we must not forget that it is Adam who is allegedly 'tested' in the movie (thus his apple pie odyssey); and it is his character that gets transformed entirely in the course of the story. Almost every character in the movie goes through something quite akin to Job's ordeal, actually.
To me, the story is not a parable but an opaque, magical realist text (check out my review, if it ever gets posted).

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I agree that the interpretation of Adam as Satan is not accurate. Adam can better be compared with the friends of Job in the book of Job (3 friends - Adam, Khalid & Gunnar?). They try to convince Job that God is not good or 'on his side'.

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excellant

Loved this film!

"Hey, how come Andrew gets to get up? If he gets up...we'll all get up...IT'LL BE ANARCHY!!"

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Outstanding analysis! I thought the end was very corny but based on your explanation I now like it.

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yay! you're most welcome.








Ad hoc, Ad loc, Quid pro queeee,
So little time and so much to see

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My interpretation (sorry for me English) :

This movie show how to deal with novaday Job-complex.

Ivan lost his wife, his child is sick and his childhood was worse than awful.
It looks like someone/somethink is trying to stop him from living a good life, helping others etc. (it is his purpose in life)

Adam's apples are being eaten by birds and worms, and later thunder strikes the tree and apples are eaten or stolen. It looks like someone/somethink is trying to stop him from making an apple pie (it is his current purpose in life)

So, Job reference is obviously correct, but I think that both men are novaday Jobs. The movie show two ways of dealing with unexpected stream of disasters.

Ivan accept every misfortune by making his own reality. Reality in where there is no evil. He think that satan is only testing him, but he pass another test and another.

Adam refuse to make even a try to bake this pie. Well, maybe he made a scarecrow, but that is all he can do. He accept every misfortune by surrending. He stay still in reality, as we know it, and that is all he can do - just accept the reality and do nothing.

I think that is the main theme of this movie : what is better? Be good and ambitious but not believe in reality or maybe don't do anythink but be rational?Having all this religious references (Job, Adams apple etc.) in that movie, gave me an idea that this movie is about religion generally. Is it good that religion exist? Even if you are an atheist ? The answer is simple (according to the movie).

Ivan was forced to perceive reality. And what happened? He was sad, he was doing nothing, he was just sitting and thinking about his brain damage. People he was looking for came back to their sinful lifes, they stole, they shot, they drunk etc.

Adam have changed and become a good man. He made an apple pie and become Ivans helper.

SO : Even if religion is not true, even if it is not a reality, just a bunch of stories, it is good that religion exist because some people must believe in somethink to live their lifes good, to have a moral codex. If they don't have religion, they are not afraid of anything and do whatever they want.

It is just my brief interpretation, I think there is more in that story, but that is the main conclusion. And, in the end, I want to stress that it is just my interpretation, not my opinion about religion. Sorry for my English once more.

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late to the party, but I just watched and loved this film, the actor that played Ivan is really interesting in everything i have seen him in. an example of the things that can not be explained. and the fact that we have a philosophical choice about how we live, behave... Ivan as a Buddhist teacher shows the transcendent reality of goodness, every child knows, so we all know

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It's funny but your post actually dumbs the movie down to me. Reducing it to simplistic Bible children notion of good and evil is missing the forest for the tree, I think.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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Hey, Ith, don't go all lazy on us; explain plse!Tell us about that forest.

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One little problem/inaccuracy. Adam told Ivan that God did all that stuff to Job but any man of God would know that according to the Bible, God "allowed' satan to test Job and he gave satan a couple of rules that he had to follow. God didn't do anything to Job.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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