MovieChat Forums > Wu ji (2006) Discussion > Why this movie deserves a ONE out of TEN

Why this movie deserves a ONE out of TEN

posted 17 years ago by thestreetlighter
19 replies | jump to latest

This is a repost (I've changed the title to a more appropriate one). Especially if you're from China, you probably already know how incredibly bad this movie was received. This is supposed to be a fantasy, and you're not really supposed to question what happens in fantasies. But many of the things in this movie were so illogical and unbelievable it makes me wonder if Chen Kaige even watched it himself. It seems like he was so excited with all the ideas he came up with that he had no idea how to organize anything. The movie never makes up its mind what it wants to talk about.

1. We're made to believe Wuhuan went on a lifelong grudge because Qingcheng fooled him when they were kids over a piece of bread (...). He was the one who actually fooled her first to get that bread. Go figure!

2. Qingcheng makes a promise to the Goddess, but later on the Goddess starts using Kunlun in her favor since he is the only one who can change her fate. Then what was the point of having Qingcheng make that promise if someone in the future is just going to reverse it anyway? And why is Kunlun taking Qingcheng back to change her future when she just found her true love and an end to the curse?

3. When Guangming shoots the arrow through the piece of meat in the air, it magically lands in front of all the slaves even though it flew past everyone in the scene before.

4. At Horseshoe valley, the slaves were made to deflect the first attack. When they try to escape, the army starts killing them with arrows (?). Yeah, and as if those slaves are going to stop that huge herd of stampeding bulls. Where's the logic in that?

5. The Goddess implies that Guangming would not have been victorious if Kunlun wasn't there to lead the stampede...even though the bulls were already running back the other way without anyone to lead them. Next.

6. Kunlun disguises himself in the armor and Guangming tells him to save the King, who isn't holding a weapon (with no clue as to why or how he knows this). Kunlun saves someone else instead and the logic should be because he saw someone not holding a weapon. But Kunlun confesses that he did save the woman instead of the King. So what was the point of asking about the King in the first place?!

7. The King decides to try and kill Qingcheng on the rooftop in front of everybody...IN THE MIDDLE OF BEING RESCUED?! Not only that, Wuhuan's army invaded the imperial city in order to steal Qingcheng from the King yet they don't do anything to save her while she's about to die. Did they forget why they were there? What a complete mess!

8. After Kunlun saves Qingcheng from the cage, he uses her like a kite for some reason. Wouldn't it be easier to just carry her on his back like his master? Was it only to show off special effects?

9. Guangming tells Kunlun to bring Qingcheng to him. When Kunlun is in the middle of rescuing her from the imperial city, Guangming all of a sudden decides to show up in his armor and rescue her himself. On top of that, he ditches Kunlun. Why bother asking your slave to do something that you're going to end up doing yourself?

10. Guangming orders Kunlun to kill Qingcheng after she decides to leave him. Well, so much for making that wager with the Goddess...

11. What in the world is a giant black half-spherical circus cage doing in the middle of nowhere? To show off another lame attempt at an action scene? I can't believe how much of China's GDP was wasted on making big props like this that appear for no more than a minute.

12. The fact that people from the Land of Snow are either dead or enslaved...wow.

13. Kunlun somehow knows who his mother is but not his sister. Ehhh...

14. Kunlun doesn't show any type of hatred or vengeance toward Wuhuan after finding out he was the one who killed his family. Instead he takes it out on Guilang as if he was solely responsible. Absolutely mind-boggling.

15. Everybody was going after the crimson armor for some reason even though it had no real importance. Maybe because in Chen Kaige's world everyone is fashionably materialistic.

16. The court trial scene was total nonsense. Guangming tries to say that he indeed killed the King because he fell in love with Qingcheng. So now he wants to take the blame for something that made no sense earlier and something he once tried to take off his name. Brilliant. Even after Kunlun reveals the truth to relieve Guangming of murder, everyone just winds up as Wuhuan's prisoners anyway. OH...MY...GOD.

17. Wuhuan says he has lost all trust in the world...even though he commands an entire army, makes deals with people who actually take him seriously, and acts somewhat surprised when his servant betrays him. Go figure! And what's a mistrustful person doing with a servant anyway?

18. At the end, Qingcheng still had feelings for Guangming even after he used her to win a bet and then lying about his identity. She even went back to him after he almost had her head chopped off. Unbelievable.

19. The "special effects" in this movie looked like they were done in someone's home PC. I've seen video games, television shows and commercials with better output than this. Mary Poppins had better effects and that film was made over forty years ago!

20. The dialogue was horrible. Real speed is inconceivable like when leaves change color or when a tooth emerges? What the hell is that supposed to mean?!

21. The Mandarin spoken in this movie was bad, and I mean Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon bad. This is what happens when you take any of Asia's hottest stars, dress them up in costumes and try to pass it off as a new Mandarin-language movie.

22. The musical score was too bombastic for its own good. They hired a Hollywood composer, and I guess they tried to prove how Hollywood-like they can be.

23. The original title of this movie is "Wu ji", which makes absolutely no sense in regards to whatever the movie was trying to talk about.

24. As a result of making this movie, a portion of China's natural environment in Yunnan Province was damaged. There were even reports of animals killed. Chen Kaige tried all he could to not take responsibility for it.

25. Chen Kaige threatened to sue a young man who made a parody of this movie (which was very funny and well-done by the way), which already shows his lack of tolerance toward criticisms of his work.

Everytime I confront anyone with the movie, they can never explain things properly. Any explanantion to the story results in further confusion. Their only line of defense is "just enjoy it, it's only a fairy tale". Sorry, but even fairy tales are supposed to make some sense. Notice how my complaints had nothing to do with it being a fairy tale. In this movie, Chen Kaige made the characters do things that would have made little sense in anyone's culture or language. It seems like everyone just enjoyed watching the moving pictures because I honestly can't think of any other reason.

[–] stalker-30 17 years ago

I'm not sayinng it is a fairy tale enjoy it. but I will say that if you analyse this much any fairy tale movie you will never enjoy any.

I agree with you in some points like: "6. Kunlun disguises himself in the armor and Guangming tells him to save the King, who isn't holding a weapon (with no clue as to why or how he knows this). Kunlun saves someone else instead and the logic should be because he saw someone not holding a weapon. But Kunlun confesses that he did save the woman instead of the King. So what was the point of asking about the King in the first place?!" - well part of it.. I don't think the nonesense lies on "So what was the point of asking about the King in the first place" coz it is obvious who the is king in that scene if you know that someone is attempting to kill him and you were sent to save him (even if you're a slave who has never seen the king before)... I agree on the part where he totaly used the wrong justification.

Honestly some of the stuff you said are not explained. some probably were not that well thought upon, some were probably to emphasize what was about to happen, such as the inactivity of the troops when the woman is about to die. The ideia was the emphazise the rescue.

Other details look like you were just diging the movie for errors: "12. Kunlun somehow knows who his mother is but not his sister.", First - who cares?!. Second - a lot of possible explanations are possible. Since he was taken away with only 2 years of age isn't it normal that he doesn't remeber anyone apart from his mother? I mean, she was the one breastfeeding him for part of those 2 years and probably taking care of him.

"The court trial scene was total nonsense. Guangming tries to say that he indeed killed the King because he fell in love with Qingcheng. So now he wants to take the blame for something that made no sense earlier and something he once tried to take off his name." - he just didn't care, he wanted to die now, he didn't feel like he was worth of living. In my opinion ofc. Anyway, even if not true, it is a possible reason. why take it as one of the 23 reasons why the movie was senseless!? maybe it is just lack of sensibility coz you never felt like that. don't blame the director for things that you are just unable to comment.

"16. At the end, Qingcheng still had feelings for Guangming even after he used her to win a bet and then lying about his identity." Are you trying to put passional reactions into a chain of logical events? what's the big deal, even if a loved one would betray you, on her/his moment of death you would probably feel to urge to hug and kiss him/her. Once again if you are enable to feel this, why consider it an error?

"20. The musical score was too bombastic for its own good. They hired a Hollywood composer, and I guess they tried to prove how Hollywood-like they can be. " Funny I really liked it, actually it helped me to grasp better the magic of certain moments. I think it is just personal taste and in my opinion it was really good.

"11. The fact that people from the Land of Snow are either dead or enslaved...wow. " - yes.. coz that didn't happen on another places in the world like in America with the indian tribes...

All movies have incoerent details, I think that is why I can enjoy and extract as much pleasure from them, coz I am aware of that and just trash the unimportant messes. I just wanted to give you my personal opinion on some of the stuff you commented so that you don't have to remember the lame: "just enjoy it, it's only a fairy tale." line. If you don't agree with the stuff I posted feel free to retaliate but keep in mind that I am not here to discuss who is the most right or wrong about the movie.

[–] thestreetlighter 17 years ago

Thanks for replying. I don't think I'm over-analyzing anything. I caught all these flaws after watching the movie only once. I will respond to your points since I meant for this to be a discussion anyway:

I don't think the nonesense lies on "So what was the point of asking about the King in the first place" coz it is obvious who the is king in that scene if you know that someone is attempting to kill him and you were sent to save him.

-Well of course you'd ask about how the King looks like if you don't know. My point is that it would have been understandable if Kunlun mistakened Qingcheng as the King since she wasn't holding a weapon and he couldn't tell from a distance. But he says he did see a woman being attacked so he takes off with her instead, ignoring his mission. Therefore, asking about the King was pointless.

The ideia was the emphazise the rescue.

-Exactly. Logic was sacrificed in order to make the action scenes look sensational, which this movie does from beginning to end. The more extravagant a movie is, the less you care about what the people do in it.

First - who cares?!. Second - a lot of possible explanations are possible.

-Anyone interested in the plot would care. And we see both his mother and sister together, they're smiling and seem like a close-knitted family. It would only be reasonable to think he got to know them both.

he just didn't care, he wanted to die now, he didn't feel like he was worth of living

-I disagree. He wanted to keep living and prove the Goddess wrong, but had no idea the truth would come out. But even then, confessing to that crime is totally inane considering what happened earlier.

Are you trying to put passional reactions into a chain of logical events? what's the big deal, even if a loved one would betray you, on her/his moment of death you would probably feel to urge to hug and kiss him/her.

-There was nothing logical about it. And if that "loved one" almost had you executed by the hands of his/her slave, would you still feel the urge to hug and kiss him/her? I really don't think so.

yes.. coz that didn't happen on another places in the world like in America with the indian tribes...

-Bad example. The Native Americans had technological capabilities that were inferior to the colonialists. In this movie, people from the Land of Snow can run fast and can even travel through time, yet they're always caught or killed.

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"I am the entity known as the Street Lighter."

[–] christomacin 17 years ago

Exactly. The Snow Country people could have gone forward in time to 1863 and been there when Abe Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. They wouldn't be slaves anymore and they'd have the paperwork to prove it. Or go forward to 2008 and win a heap of track and field Olympic medals for Mother China. How can a race of people that has an escape hatch and can run very fast be enslaved? You'd think the would be the masters and everyone else slaves, at the very least. That's a load of bull(s)! If they are that stupid (or lazy?) they deserve to be slaves. How is that even possible? Because some guy has crimson armor? Come on!

[–] christomacin 17 years ago

I'm not sayinng it is a fairy tale enjoy it. but I will say that if you analyse this much any fairy tale movie you will never enjoy any.

Oh, contraire. The more I analyze Excalibur, or Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, the more I enjoy them, not less. Fantasy is merely a genre like any other. There are good examples and bad examples. The Promise was a bad example. I don't see why a special illogic dispensation should be made for a particular genre.

[–] frag_the_limit 17 years ago

24. The land of the snow people can run at the speed of light yet they are caught and killed so easily

25. stealing a bread from a generals son will make him hunt you down till you die.

26. When having sex only the guy takes off his shirt not the woman.

27. Wasting money on a prop which only lasts 10 minutes in the movie e.g bird cage and metal sphere

[–] cb_advanced 17 years ago

I have already voted 1/10, reading your post makes me want to give it zero....if I could :(

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Dengar 17 years ago

Most of your criticisms seem to come from the idea that characters can't change their mind about things they say they want or do, but one of the main reasons why I loved seeing the film is because people acted closer to real-life (e.g. - they change their mind, expect different things from themselves than they're prepared to do, et cetera).

As for the dialogue, I hope you watched it with subtitles, because I partly saw witness to how cheesy the English dub is on the DVD.

As for the visuals such as Kunlun flying Qingcheng like a kite and the spherical prison cells, I don't get the impression they're meant to show off special-effects so much as they're more literal expressionist manifestations of the action and environments that do what a film is supposed to do: to tell a story or convey a mood visually. An example of this is the fabled Crimson Armour that is more about legend than in actual practicality.

And I'm not sure about the critique levied against the special effects, because they looked very good for what their purpose was in conveying an otherworldly/fantasized past, rather than a hyper-realistic one. Kind of like Zack Snyder's 300 (2007) versus The 300 Spartans (1962).

That was your reaction, and I have mine, but I'm just sorry that some of the things that seem so natural to me are the things that some people are taking to task for not being too literal.

[–] thestreetlighter 17 years ago

Hey, thanks for replying. I'll just quickly respond to a couple of your points.

Most of your criticisms seem to come from the idea that characters can't change their mind about things they say they want or do

I have no problem with characters changing their minds, but the way it was done in this movie was just too erratic and disjointed to have any kind of concern. It got to a point where I just didn't care what happens to any of the characters.

I already know that this movie tries to have people exhibiting real-life attributes and characteristics (at times, too many), but if you pay attention to the things they actually do and say throughout the film, none of it is very sensible at all. I'm convinced the director made the characters do outrageous things for the sake of just sensationalizing every single scene.

As for the dialogue, I hope you watched it with subtitles, because I partly saw witness to how cheesy the English dub is on the DVD.

Not that I would watch this movie again, but I think I would rather watch it dubbed...or at least subtitled with the sound turned off. If you understand Mandarin Chinese, then watching this movie in its original language is pretty excruciating because of the annoying accents.

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"I am the entity known as the Street Lighter."

[–] conedust 17 years ago

Basically, I agree with you: this movie is pretty damn bad. Not because it makes no sense (though that doesn't help), but rather because it's so cheezy and half-baked from beginning to end. Not "magical", not "fantastical", just poorly thought-out, unimaginative and trite. The marial arts equivalent of a velvet painting of a crying unicorn. It's got some amazing moments, sure, but they don't add up to much of a movie.

Note that I love "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", "Hero" & "The House of Flying Daggers", "The Bride With White Hair", etc. So, I've got a pretty high tolerance for this style, with all its built-in absurdity, operatic sentimentalism and even incoherence. My problem isn't the Chinese high fantasy approach, but the lameness of this particular film.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] manony 17 years ago

I only agree with 11. I've seen the movie 3 times and most of your points are self-explanatory.

1. That only shows he's not a good sport. Feeling wronged doesn't have to be logical.

2. The general changed his fate and therefore also QingCheng's fate. Kunlun took her back, because too many bad things had happened.

3. Didn't notice.

4. The slaves were shot at, because they were running away. That was their punishment and also a warning to discourage others from running away.

5. The bulls would have slowed down if there was nobody running in front of them anymore.

6. When Kunlun went in to save the king he could not have known a woman would need his help. He just gave her his priority, because she was in immediate danger.

7. Qingcheng was using her beauty to turn the king's men against him, so he needed to take her out.

8. He probably thought it was more polite not to touch a woman directly.

9. He wanted to impress her to earn her love and just didn't tell Kunlun or thought about it later.

10. I don't think he did that!

11. Good point, but no reason for a low rating.

12. It's central to the story though.

13. At 2 he would have been closer to his mom than his sis, he didn't know his home either.

14. He was only initially angry at Snow Wolf for betraying their people's principles, but not later on. He's not exactly the vengeful or hateful type.

15. Only the general and the bad guy have any interest in the crimson armor.

16. The general didn't want to loose face in front of Qincheng. Basically they were all guilty for the king's death or at least lying about it, so they all had to be punished.

17. He didn't trust the servant, hence the cloak.

18. She had lived happily with him for a long time, and he said he cared for her, so it wasn't all a lie.

19. Didn't bother me.

20. What scene was that?

21. Didn't bother me.

22. I thought the music was great. I suppose that's a matter of taste.

23. Didn't get that.

24. That's bad, but not a critique.

25. That's also bad, but not a critique.

[–] thestreetlighter 17 years ago

Thanks for replying but which version of this movie did you see? Although you did try and explain the points, they just further confuse what I talked about. I won't respond to everything but here are the main ones.

1. That only shows he's not a good sport. Feeling wronged doesn't have to be logical.

Not a good sport? So he goes on a bloody murderous rampage for the rest of his life because of a piece of bread? Somehow we're supposed to take that seriously.

2. The general changed his fate and therefore also QingCheng's fate. Kunlun took her back, because too many bad things had happened.

The general's fate did not change. Kunlun taking Qingcheng back in time would make everything that happened pointless. Qingcheng would remain homeless, Kunlun would live as a slave and never meet her, and Wuhuan will still be tracking her down while going on a lifelong temper tantrum. You never sensed that Kunlun was her true love either. It all makes no sense.

4. The slaves were shot at, because they were running away. That was their punishment and also a warning to discourage others from running away.

That whole scene was stupid. Discourage others from running away? Then what were they supposed to do, fall back into the stampede? Having slaves was totally pointless. Were they supposed to counterattack the bulls or the barbarians? Did the army know they were sending bulls? Either way, the slaves were made to crawl on their hands and knees?! Despite this, some even managed to slowly crawl out of the canyon even after the bulls ran everybody over!

5. The bulls would have slowed down if there was nobody running in front of them anymore.

This is debatable but I still stand by the fact that the bulls weren't needing anyone to lead them the whole time.

6. When Kunlun went in to save the king he could not have known a woman would need his help. He just gave her his priority, because she was in immediate danger.

Then what was the point of asking for the King in the previous scene? Kunlun takes off without even finding the King (even though the general tells him no one would stand in his way which was what happened), gives the random girl he saved a lesson about life, and then sacrifices his own life all within a couple minutes. Who in their right mind would write such drivel?

7. Qingcheng was using her beauty to turn the king's men against him, so he needed to take her out.

I understand that, but keep in mind there is a huge army waiting down below. They were there to take the princess from him, yet they do nothing but watch her get attacked. And why would anyone try and kill someone else while in the process of being rescued?

8. He probably thought it was more polite not to touch a woman directly.

Well, um, okay. I'm pretty sure they made it that way to show off another action scene. Look what happens right after.

9. He wanted to impress her to earn her love and just didn't tell Kunlun or thought about it later.

If so, then he shouldn't have told his slave to do the job, or leave him behind in the hands of the enemy. It's like he doesn't care what happens to him, yet he doesn't feel surprised when he returns to him. It makes you wonder why he even bothered to have a slave in the first place.

10. I don't think he did that!

Watch the movie again.

13. At 2 he would have been closer to his mom than his sis, he didn't know his home either.

We see that they are a close-knit family. It would only be logical to think he saw them both.

14. He was only initially angry at Snow Wolf for betraying their people's principles, but not later on. He's not exactly the vengeful or hateful type.

And yet he showed no such feeling toward Wuhuan, the guy who killed off his family and all of his people. I didn't know Kunlun was so forgiving.

15. Only the general and the bad guy have any interest in the crimson armor.

Guilang and Kunlun wanted the crimson armor too. There was no point in wanting it, so why was everyone after going after it? So they can look cool?

16. The general didn't want to loose face in front of Qincheng. Basically they were all guilty for the king's death or at least lying about it, so they all had to be punished.

If that was the case, then what was the point of having Kunlun ensuring Qingcheng the general's pardon in the scene before? How would Kunlun know that would happen anyway? And why was Wuhuan initially siding with the lie if he is in control of the courts? Shouldn't he be punished for having invaded the King's palace as well? It's a complete mess.

17. He didn't trust the servant, hence the cloak.

So he decides he wants a servant even though he already plans on not trusting him? Why bother having a servant, or a big army for that matter? I also find it funny that the servant didn't go back in time to change his own fate, despite showing Kunlun how to do it.

18. She had lived happily with him for a long time, and he said he cared for her, so it wasn't all a lie.

How anyone can quickly switch feelings like that toward someone is beyond me, from prior to the court scene, during the court scene, and after the court scene. Unbelievable.

I'm already convinced that the director made the characters do outrageous and ridiculous things just for the sake of "telling" a story. Every new scene makes a previous scene completely pointless and so forth. A lot of people think I'm only wanting the movie to openly explain everything for me, but there's a big difference between a film that is open to interpretation and a film where there's really nothing to interpret. In this movie, we're just left with a bunch of assumptions and possibilities that only make things more confusing. If you know Mandarin, I suggest you watch the parody of this film instead because that was way more accepted than the film itself.

[–] Kichigai-kun 17 years ago

i finally watched this... i've owned it for seven months and just got around to it.

...

um, i knew there were some really harsh critiques and the like, but when i turned the movie off, i was more confused about the ending than why the film was so bad. Because of the abundance of plot holes and underdevolped characters and homages to previous epics (or should I say cliches?) I can understand why someone would be so against this, but for some reason, excluding the horrible cg attempts throughout, I really enojyed this... I can't rationalize why, but it was really entertaining... I guess i was really tired and it was easier to suspend my belief, but i was pleased with the moeny i spent on it.

Maybe it was Wuhuan's fans or Snow Wolf's crazy looking sword.

... i dunno

[–] christomacin 17 years ago

Good points, though I think even that much analysis is more than the movie deserves. I think most people intuitively sense "something ain't right with this picture", even though they can't quite put it into words. Mainly the character relationships and plot development are so poor that all people can do is look at the film visually. Visually the film is so corny and cheesy (some pretty scenery of course) that they end up focusing back on the characters...that don't make sense. It's a Catch-22.

[–] SomethingWylde 17 years ago

Uhhhmmm...
It's also kinda puzzling, how Kunlunmulullulun couldn't change his own past, but takes Quingchullullu back to change her's.
This movie was total crap, I can't understand anybody defending it. Maybe they've only watched those wooonderful moving pictures, wheee. Or they're only controlled by their sick Asia-fetishism.
Well, it's funny... since I've watched Legend of Zu, I have to give this movie at least 4/10, since Zu is 13 times worse, lol.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] oska494 15 years ago

Just watched this film, and must agree with most points in the original post, particularly I thought the whole goddess plot was superfluous really, and the whole bread/trust thing was ridiculous, as was the genocide of the snow people considering the only two left in existance ran rings around armies. I'd still probably give the film more than 1/10 though, it wasn't boring.

However, the reason he didn't know his sister is because, if he left his home at age 2, then that girl wasn't yet born or even conceived at that time.