MovieChat Forums > Avatar: The Last Airbender (2005) Discussion > So....Iroh...

So....Iroh...

posted 8 years ago by mwalsh0388
9 replies | jump to latest

I was always torn between Iroh and Toph as my favorite character, until I watched the show with my wife.
I don't know why it never clicked with me before, but Iroh is not a good guy.
He was the fire nation's general and the dragon of the west, so how is he so lovable?
You figure when he seiged ba sing se he had to of killed thousands of earth benders, as his seige was multiple years long and he did breach the walls. Not to mention his other untold escapades. He has probably murdered tens of thousands of other nation warriors.
Yet we feel bad for him. His loss of his son, his troubled relationship with his family and his father like bond with zuko, another killer.
I always thought of Iroh as a wise man who tried to avoid meaningless deaths, but his backstory says otherwise.
It hit me when my wife and I we watching s2 episode 13? When they are giving everyone a short side story arc and Iroh is singing a song in memory of his son, and my wife muttered that she didnt feel sorry for him. I almost asked why and then I realized that Iroh isnt a good person.
He may be trying to atone, or the death of his son may of changed him. But does that really matter for all the lives he has taken in the name of the fire nations world domination ploy?
Has anyone elses view of him changed? Why or why not? Did some people come to this realization while watching thr show and still admire him anyway?

[–] DanishPrince 8 years ago

My view of him never changed. Iroh is a great character and a good person.
Has he always been a good person? no, definitely not.

He has seen the world out of balance and wished to change it. By guiding Zuko he helps him avoid the same path of killing and destruction than he himself were on.
Can he atone for the many lives he has taken, probably not but he helped make the world a better place in the end.

[–] PreachCaleb 8 years ago

That's what I love about this show. There is always some new interpretation possible.

He may be trying to atone, or the death of his son may of changed him. But does that really matter for all the lives he has taken in the name of the fire nations world domination ploy?

I would say because he's trying to prevent that from happening again. Iroh knows it's his fault his son is dead. It's something he's had to deal with for years.

It's the classic redemptive character. The big difference is we're coming in at the end of the character's journey. We didn't get to witness his change of heart.

Let's be bad guys.

[–] DeusExKatrina 8 years ago

when he seiged ba sing se he had to of killed thousands of earth benders

Not necessarily. When you seige you're trying to starve them out. There were certainly deaths but a siege is one of the less bloody aspects of war.

Iroh was raised in the Fire Nation propaganda. Then he saw the light and set out to change the world for the better. Sounds like a great guy to me. In fact, he sounds like a better person than Aang or someone who had the benefit of being raised with the wisdom of peace and love from birth. Iroh had to figure out all of that stuff by himself. He had to self-teach the ways of peace and compassion. That was a much harder task.

---
Pride is not the opposite of shame, but its source. True humility is the antidote to shame.

[–] Scruffy-Blessedtwinz 8 years ago

As others have pointed out, he was born into a culture of warfare and supremacy, how can you blame a man for following the ideals of what he was taught in the first place.
Same goes for Zuko.

I'm almost a 100% sure that even when he was a General he was an honorable one and not at all ruthless.

What matters is that in the end, he saw that what he was doing was wrong.. if he hadn't, the world wouldn't have been saved by the Avatar.

So how can you not feel sorry for such a man that lost his son?

[–] Wman1996 8 years ago

We can't assume that Iroh was responsible for tens of thousands of deaths without more proof, but your intepretation is not completely unwarranted. As a general, I am sure that he committed at least one atrocity but I can bet he was probably more honorable than other members of the Fire Nation.
And how is Zuko a killer? Zuko did some very bad things sure, but the closest he came to killing was hiring Combustion Man in Book 3 to eliminate Aang.

"My insecurities could eat me alive" - Marshall Mathers

[–] imasnowbear 8 years ago

I really wanted to reply to you on why he is well liked almost universally by all viewers, but the replies you got basically summed it up.

The fact that he realized what he was doing was wrong and misguided even though growing up an environment with propaganda and nationalism, and then making continuous attempts at atonement for the rest of his life with regret and sadness shows why he is a universally loved character.

[–] hotrats2112 8 years ago

Consider this. Iroh was next in line for the throne, and would have been fire lord if Ozai hadn't murdered their father. Many princes throughout history have done exactly what Iroh did, act like a future king and prove to his people that he was fit to lead. Does that make him bad? Maybe, that's more an opinion.

Iroh's turn around came when he went to kill the last dragons. I don't know when that happened in the Iroh timeline but I believe that was when he decided to dedicate his life to balance. Again, not sure when it happened but this was probably around the time he joined the Order of the White Lotus.

I would go so far as to say that Iroh's failure at Ba Sing-Se was intentional. But again, that's opinion.

The fact is that Iroh then dedicated his life to restoring balance to the world and making sure Zuko was raised right. When the time came he betrayed the Fire Nation to help the Avatar. He also lied about killing the dragons to protect them.

To answer your original question my opinion of Iroh did change, but opposite to your. At the beginning all we know about him is that he's a "bad guy" who was a retired general and brother of the fire lord. As I got to know more about Iroh I warmed up to him. Yes, people died at his command, we don't know how many but people died.

The more I learned about Iroh the more I thought he was a good man, not the opposite way around.

[–] revterry 8 years ago

Everyone before me laid it out pretty nicely. Its the classic atonement story given in a unique and endearing way. The Iroh we see has dedicated his life to returning the balance that he had a hand in destroying and does his best to prevent Zuko from making the same mistakes. From the beginning of the show, it is implied that the bigger picture is clearer to him and makes moves to bring back the balance of the tribes, while protecting Zuko. He is an amazingly complex character (especially for a non-adult cartoon), relate able and very entertaining.