MovieChat Forums > Idlewild (2006) Discussion > Speaking Proper English does not equal '...

Speaking Proper English does not equal 'Talking White'

posted 17 years ago by PanicAtTheMovieTheater
24 replies | jump to latest

Georgia_Peach,there is no age range for the message board. Adults watch movies too, and this message board is for people to give their reviews and opinions on movies. I am a grown woman. Grown enough to correct one of my young Black brothers and/or sisters when they do not use proper English. It is alright to speak in slang or colloquial expressions, but in your message there were misspellings(like yeh in place of yea, commin instead of coming. While "ain't" is a common word, I have a newsflash for you. Ain't IS NOT a word.
You assumed that I was a white person or a rebel, just because I chose to correct you. Do you even know what a rebel is? I'm not sure what you meant by it, but I'm guessing your idea of rebel, is a Black person going against the so called "Black ways" and trying to be white. My grandmother's great grandfather was a white man, however, I am a Black woman, and when anyone sees me, White, Black, or otherwise, I am considered a Black woman.
I sent you a message because I felt that you were playing into the stereotype that Black people are illiterate, "ghetto" and cannot speak properly. I think that you should be thanking me for telling you in the manner that I did, because some people would just call you a stupid air-headed bimbo and laugh at you. I am not sure but you may be a teenager. I am not much older than you, being that I am only 20 years old. I will eat my hat if you are older than me, because that means that you still haven't learned in all your years being on Earth and now you have a 20 year old teaching you. If you are younger than me, then I feel that I am doing a good thing by letting you see your mistakes before it is too late.
You cannot go to a job interview speaking that way, and it is good to practice speaking proper English in everyday life, not just because you have a job interview. Speaking proper English is not "talking white" by the way, because I hear so many young people say they speak slang because they don't want to sound white. It is a load of crap.
Enjoy your day.

I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PanicAtTheMovieTheater 17 years ago

Yes "ain't" is officially a word, but by normal standards it really isn't(ain't)
You have the contractions

Don't=Do not

can't=can not

won't= will not (why isnt is willn't?..lol)

shouldn't= should not

wouldn't= would not

couldn't= could not

ain't=?am not?....Umm...no.

I don't know where the "word" comes from, I do use it from time to time, but technically it is not a word because I have about 4 different dictionaries that list the definition of ain't and there is a foot note that says that it isn't really a word. We all know "ain't" ain't going nowhere so we can leave it at that.

Thanks for the tip about Shakespeare. You aren't being a jerk at all, I enjoy it when someone teaches me something I did not know about.

I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PanicAtTheMovieTheater 17 years ago

How am I being angry? I am telling an African American young lady that she should not be scared to use proper English for fear of people saying that she "talks white." I am pretty sure you have seen my posts and know that I do not blame any thing on "da man"(whoever that is) I do not use "da" for the name of my kids. I only have one child named Amirah(princess in Arabic). Dashaun and Dajuan are names that Black people make up because they think it sounds African. It does not.
I do not need to shut up because this is a message board where people post their opinions. If you do not like it then ignore all posts from me and make your life easier.

Thank you and have a great day.

P.S. I am sick of your ignorant troll posts.

I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PanicAtTheMovieTheater 17 years ago

Oh please. You are nothing but a troll looking for attention. Everyone can clearly that you are twisting what I said. Look up the meaning of Amirah and the origin. It is not a dumb name at all. No it is not a "Black" name. Not all Black people name their children Dajuan and Dashaun. Instead of worrying about how people name their children, how about learning about spelling, punctuation, capitalization and grammar. Get a life.

Like I said before if you don't like my opinions put me on ignore. Better yet I'll put you on ignore. Idiot.

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[–] cafesmitty 17 years ago

Queen Fierce

Have you ever seen a movie called "A Soldier's Story"? I find the movie extremely fascinating because it leads to all sorts of discussions. One of those discussions center around african americans judging each other because of how they want to be portrayed in non-african americans eyes. As you may recall, the NCOIC kills one of his Soldier for shucking and jiving and is in turned gets murdered because of his beliefs. I see some of that judging in your post when you take it upon yourself to correct someone because of their spelling, punctuation or grammar. You reminded that person on how they are making us look in the eyes of non-african americans. It seems you are self conscious on how you are going to be judged by others if one of your brethren sounds like they are uneducated.

For me, its not a matter on how someone is saying something, it is WHAT they are saying that matters. It's easy to get caught up trying to correct someone instead of LISTENING to what they have to say. Guess what? Not everyone is going to spell or say the correct things. Some people were and are at a disadvantage based on the education presented before them. Some of the most brilliant minds cannot spell or use proper english. Some people grew up in rural areas, poor areas, or yes, even ghetto areas and did not receive the proper teachings due to poor educators.

So it kills me when I see someone picking on someone else because they didn't spell a word correctly or use the proper punctuation. If it wasn't for spellchecker I wonder how many of us would be looking quite uneducated in your eyes, or in anyone eyes for that matter. And for the most part, I don't think it is "Talking White" when one speaks properly, but its not talking black when one does not either. Even though you did not say it in your post, you have inferred it.

So having said all of that... I want to address on thing... the use of the word "AIN'T".

Ain't is a contraction originally for "am not" and "are not", but now typically meaning "is not", "am not", "are not", "has not", or "have not". In some dialects it is also used as a contraction of "do not", "does not", and "did not", as in I ain't know that. The word is a perennial issue in English usage.

Modern usage notes in dictionaries note that ain't is used in a self-conscious way by some speakers and writers for a deliberate effect: what Oxford American Dictionary describes as "tongue-in-cheek" or "reverse snobbery", and what Merriam-Webster Collegiate calls "emphatic effect" or "a consistently informal style". An example of the this effect would be "Ain't ain't a word 'cause it ain't in the dictionary." Most usage writers continue to condemn use of the word in an unselfconscious way.

Ain't was officially entered in the Merriam Webster's Dictionary of English Usage in 1989.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/aint

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PanicAtTheMovieTheater 17 years ago

Thanks for the essay.

I was only trying to help the young lady. I wish you would READ. I was telling the girl that she should not think that speaking proper English equals talking "white" I have heard many African American people give that as their reason for using slang. You should read ALL of my posts before you jump down my throat.

Here's an idea. If you don't like what a person says, you ignore them.

I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death

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[–] cafesmitty 17 years ago

I did read what she wrote and it sounded as if she was bating you on purpose. Once you started correcting her and calling her the stereotypical black person, you lost her. Sometimes people only want help when asked. And when you say if you don't like what a person say, you can ignore them. That is true, but it also applies to you. She wrote, you didn't like it and you responded. Its not that I didn't like what you said, I responded to what you said. Couldn't you tell the more that you were "correcting" the other person the more they decided to write incorrectly.

You know there are so many arguments on who is more black than the other. In fact Jim Brown (retired NFL runningback) have clamed that some of the today's athletes are not consider black because they aren't as vocal as he is about society's problems. Some people will tell you that image is everything. These are normally people who are not comfortable in their own skin (my opinion only).
I agree with you that it is important to write properly and speak properly when trying to get a job. What is more important is getting the proper education and striving to go onto higher education to improve your situation in life.
Personally I like reading, studying history, science, languages etc., because those are things that I enjoy. I like finding out things and understanding how things work. I also read a lot of biologies because it interests me on what motivate people to do what they do. I also understand not everyone is going to have the same advantages I do or that I may not have the same advantages of someone else. And that the only way you are going to understand someone is by LISTENING to them and understand they may have arrived at their opinion based on a completely different morals, and may had a different social upbringing.
And if you can please tell me what is a stereotypical black person, I would like to know.

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[–] PanicAtTheMovieTheater 17 years ago

*Applause*

I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death

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[–] super_novalegend 17 years ago

COme On Panic, I think the person who spoke before now has a point just as much as you do. DOnt be so worried about impressing people or how they see you. If there is a white person who judges you by the way other black ppl around you act then their almost certainly not worth associating yourself with anyway. SOmetimes, I am almost convinced human beings are not the most superior beings ont his planet, our preoccupation with all the things that really dont matter is astounding.

N.B your last statement id applicable to you too; if you didnt like the way this "black brother/sister" chose to speak, why didnt you just leave them alone instead of play Bill Cosby?

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[–] PanicAtTheMovieTheater 17 years ago

LMAO @ Bill Cosby
I never sleep because sleep is the cousin of death

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[–] friendlybombs 17 years ago

mkeone,
to quote Kirk Douglas, "there are times when I'm ashamed to be a member of the human race and this is one such occasion."

it's people like you that cause rational, sane human beings like myself to lose all faith in humanity.

my only hope is that somehow, in some incredibly unfunny way, you're joking

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] tenaciousb83 17 years ago

No, sadly it seems that mkeone really is that ignorant. Just check out mkeone's other posts. It seems though, that there have been a large number of complaints submitted to the powers that be about this user, and it's in the process of being taken care of. If it were only possible to do that in the real world...

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[–] Apollo_Kreez 17 years ago

wow, mkeone, you are one racist mother *beep*

<(^.^<) <(^.^)> (>^.^)>
Kirby Gettin Some

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[–] tscorbett 16 years ago

Of course Ain't isn't a word. And in Shakespeare, when they said an't, it was a contraction for "if it". "An" was an old english version of the word "if". And we as Black people need to get it together. this whole "talking white" business is B.S.

I don't know, I was really drunk at the time...

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[–] markjntero 17 years ago

ain't |eɪnt| informal contraction of • am not; are not; is not : if it ain't broke, don't fix it. [ORIGIN: originally representing London dialect.] • has not; have not : they ain't got nothing to say. [ORIGIN: from dialect hain't.]USAGE The use of ain't was widespread in the 18th century and is still perfectly normal in many dialects and informal contexts in both North America and Britain. Today, however, it does not form part of standard English and should not be used in formal contexts.

Thesaurus
ain't See note below. USAGE NOTEain'tIs this word used orally in most parts of the country by cultivated speakers? In 1961, Webster's Third New International Dictionary of the English Language (W3) said it was, provoking a firestorm of protests from journalists and academics. W3's assessment was quite a change from that of W2 (the second edition, published in 1934), which had given it a tag: “Dial. or Illit.” The editor of W3, Philip Gove, explained the change by conceding that he had no large files of empirical evidence: “Knowledge of some kind of language behavior comes through contact with its observers and is not always documented because there seems to be no reason to collect additional evidence.” If that's the method, then one can confidently say that W3's treatment was flawed in its incompleteness. In 1962, the year after W3 was published, an apt cartoon appeared in The New Yorker. A man is standing in the reception area of G. & C. Merriam Co., Dictionary Division, as the receptionist says to him, “Sorry. Dr. Gove ain't in.” Yes, ain't is used by cultivated speakers, but almost always for either of two reasons: (1) to be tongue-in-cheek, or (2) to flaunt their reverse snobbery. For most people, it remains a shibboleth of poor usage. — BG

I ain't english speaker, but I’m Afrikan.

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[–] goodguy309 17 years ago

I applaud you for speaking up and explaining your reasoning. That makes you an intelligent person in my book.

I am white and it irritates me to no end when I see posters, regardless of color, use their 'text messaging' method of communication.

While my thoughts do not fall into the same category as the specifics of your post, my thoughts do follow that ignorance of the English language is on the rise and proper communication etiquette has now been replaced by cell phone text messaging.

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[–] CinemaRomeo 17 years ago

All right, speaking as a white guy, I may be landing myself in hot water here, but I agree with you queen_fierce. I've heard that style of speaking referred to as "ebonics" and it irritates me to no end because I hear white kids speaking the same way to sound "black" and I wish people of both races would realize that it DOES NOT sound cool to talk like that! I, as a white person, try to speak correct English because...well, I don't want to look stupid in other people's eyes.

Incidentally, it isn't talking black. Historically, it's talking white. White Southerners used to speak the exact same way and after the Civil War, in the Great Migration of blacks to Northern cities, they brought that white "redneck" way of speaking with them..and it's still with us to this day...

Don't knock masturbation - it's sex with someone I love. ~Woody Allen

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[–] activista 11 years ago

@cinemaromeo

If it dosen't sound cool to talk "black" slang, then why the hell do white people pick it up and start using it/rip it off, just like they're done with practically every new slang/fashion/fad black people come out with? As a black person, I love words and slang, and I don't see anything wrong with it as long as you know the proper pace and time to speak proper (at work) AND then to use slang (around friends/family.)

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[–] fitchrulz 17 years ago

actually, ain't is an irregular contraction... of am and not. it's not proper grammar, and the only tense it can be used in technically is first person (ex. i ain't going to the store= i am not going to the store) and i spell yeah without the A... on purpose... i do speak proper english and spell many, many words correctly. not everyone knows how to spell, though

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[–] skizzie72-1 16 years ago

i agree with the original poster. some people say it unconsciously and then when i call them on it then go "well all white people dont talk regular either". kinda like im stealing their language since i can actually put a sentence together with no problems.

IM RUNNIN THIS MONKEY FARM NOW FRANKENSTEIN! AND I WANNA KNOW WHAT THE F&$K UR DOIN WITH MY TIME!

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