Not only is Kathy Shao-lin Lee a fantastic actress, but she's a good friend of mine. Give me some feedback on her performance in Red Doors. No one seems to be talking about her, and she deserves the attention.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
I think she did a very good job in "Red Doors". She lit up the screen playing the youngest daughter Katie.
I didn't know she is the younger sister of Georgia Lee.
I just saw the film last night along with the Q&A, which was pretty interesting. Very well done, well written and Kathy was, for me, the best part of the film. She has great dead-pan comic timing.
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No one has sold out. That's a sad and ignorant statement to make. In fact, they were pressured to make several changes that would have affected the whole look and flavor of the film. But they held true to their vision and made it their way. If you're referring to the lack of Asian men in the film, that was not their fault. In fact they had planned on using two Asian actors, but they both had to pull out of the production at the last moment, and no other Asian actors could be found that were available on such short notice. Interviews with the filmmakers are available online. I suggest you read them, so you can respond informatively.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
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Livercp,
Thanks for that link. Very informative.
Someone like Georgia Lee and movies like Red Doors are very dangerous for our community. They become adopted by the mainstream as the spokespersons/standards for the APA community and then you have every non-Asian thinking that Asian fathers are scumbags and Asian chicks all want white boys.
How, exactly, is Ed Wong a "scumbag?" Ed's character is one of the most nuanced, subtle, and sympathetic Asian fathers to have ever graced the screen. He loves his daughters absolutely, even though he feels as though he sometimes cannot connect. His relationship with bad-chick Katie is truly endearing -- more than anyone else in the family, they understand each other, even though she walks around with dildos in her pocket. He reads Wittgenstein (SP?).
Also, yes, sometimes Chinese females date non-Chinese men/women. They've been doing so for centuries. I don't think that the Lee was trying to make a political statement. But if you believe that every Chinese girl who casts an eye at someone who is not of their race does so because of media brain-washing, then you really are pathetic.
Mia Riverton (Mia Scarlett) is half Chinese, btw. Her command of the Mandarin language kicks most of the young Chinese-American community's butt.
I guess you know Georgia Lee personally.
The youngest daughter's relationship with the dad is "truly endearing"? I guess you consider a daughter catching her father trying to kill himself AND DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT good family fun.
So Mia speaks Mandarin. Since she's half Chinese and speaks it better than a full Chinese, that makes her a better person?
Lady, get a clue. You sound like an idiot.
If good family fun is what you're after, then I would suggest sticking to Disney's Mulan. Certainly stay away from the modern Chinese classics, like Chongking Express, To Live, or Blue Kite -- those films would be bound to upset you with their ironic and bitter, yet ultimately romantic worldviews.
Yes, language is important. I don't know whether that makes Riverton a better person, but it certainly allows her access and sympathy into the community that brought her here in the first place. I am sick of self-entitled Asian Americans who whinge about their position in society while they disrespect their parents and bark English instructions in Chinatown. They don't care that the waitress at Wo Hop was once a doctor in Beijing and is now being beaten by her husband. She is there to serve them noodle soup -- and god help her if she screws up the order.
Hm. No wonder I dig Ed Norton. At least he speaks Chinese.
Speaking the same language does not automatically allow access and sympahty into any community. I speak English, does that mean I "understand" the black experience?
I've seen all the movies you've mentioned and I can't believe you mentioned them in the same breath as this piece of trash.
Speaking the same language doesn't allow automatic access, but it helps. Just ask anyone with a passport. Your argument about language sounds dangerously like an Anglo-American-Colonial cliche, where anyone who doesn't speak English is politely invited to *beep* themselves.
So glad you found CK Express, Blue Kite, and To Live "good family fun." Perhaps something was lost in the subtitles.
Btw, it's spelled S-Y-M-P-A-T-H-Y, not sympahty.
I also realize that this comment strays from the topic of Red Doors itself, a movie that is full of wit and depth, created by people who understand both the Chinese language and culture. I also find it ironic that so many of these postings have been devoted to debating the qualities of one of the actresses, Kathy Shao-lin Lee, who, despite being radiantly beautiful, is criticized by Asian males because she does not have the frosted pink lips and vacant stare of their ideal.
On the contrary, you're the one equating speaking a language to "understanding" a culture. I'm the one saying that culture is more than language. Period.
You're straying from the point because you have nothing to hinge your argument on. I'm talking about Red Doors being a silly movie and you're teaching me how to spell, which just makes you a hypocrite.
With identity politics and personal biases aside, Red Doors is simply an inept movie. From the story to the cinematography, it was just a bad, bad film.
Edward Norton speaks Japanese, honey. Not Chinese.
I'm not certain what more you hoped I would glean from the link(s) you sent me beyond one person's opinion.
Look, this was Georgia's film and Georgia's vision. I don't understand the personal attacks on her film or her character--although personal opinions will always abound.
I DO still feel the same way as I stated before. I don't understand why you consider her a sell-out. If you disagree with her statement and even her movie--or its portrayal of Asian-Americans, you are certainly welcome to do so. Goodness, I've only seen clips and scenes from the movie, so I've yet to see its content in its entirety. I can say that I don't endorse everything in the movie. The lesbian theme certainly isn't something I would endorse. But to call her a sellout is to simply ignore the circumstances just prior to shooting, and we only have Georgia (and the other filmmakers') word for it.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
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Who can say? You can doubt the filmmakers' word or take them at their word. It's a matter of choice what one believes. I certainly have no reason to doubt them, and I've heard the explanation from three of them. Knowing Kathy, at least, as I do, I certainly have no reason to doubt them. In fact, I happen to know just how disappointed and disillusioned they are by those who claim foul on their part--by those in the Asian-American community, of which they are a part.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
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On the contrary, Kathy Shao-lin Lee is one of the lovliest women I've ever seen. If you think she's ugly, you must live in Bizzarro World, where everything is upside-down and reversed...good is bad, black is white--well, you get the idea.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
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Yeah, uh...like I said. Bizzarro! You're either blind and stupid or just plain blind. Or stupid! Actually, I shouldn't say that. If you don't think she's attractive, that's your perrogative.
But you are absolutely wrong to say I know she's ugly. It would be a great waste of my time and effort to state something I knew was false, and then take even more time and effort to defend something I knew was false. Wouldn't it? Be kinda silly, wouldn't it? I mean, what would be the point? Come on...think it through....
I'll restate what I said before, just to make my point: Kathy Shao-lin Lee is one of the most gorgeous women I've ever known. Or seen.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
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On the contrary. I'm a movie producer. I get headshots from actresses and models all the time. I am most definitely not blind, matey. But...if you disagree, I certainly don't wish to blow up your...perception. In fact, I hope you continue to enjoy your impairment for as long as you wish to own it.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
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Check out http://www.tekproductions.org or http://www.myspace.com/topworlder for more about me, if you like.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
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Thanks! I appreciate it. We're thiiiis close to having PROVING GROUND greenlighted, and I'm talking with actress ALEXA VEGA about assuming the role of Ellie in TOPWORLD vacated by Kathy Shao-lin Lee (when she became pregnant and had to bow out). Ironically, TOPWORLD was originally written for Ms. Vega a feww years ago, but I couldn't get past her agent. I have since reestablished contact with Alexa on MySpace, and she's very interested in TOPWORLD. - K
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
Oh, since I'm Asian American and know how to speak German, that automatically makes me knowledgeable in everything German? Some people say the most inane things on these boards that it never fails to bring a smile to my face. It allows me to revel in the fact that many people continue to walk through life being completely oblivious. Mia Riverton is half Chinese and speaks it so she can't be socially apathetic? I have news for you, honey; there are full blooded Asians that speak the language and have self-hate issues.
If you buy the excuse from Lee and her producers, than I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. We have daily reports from Asian male actors that are unable to find work in mainstream Hollywood because of rampant discrimination and stereotyping. You mean to tell me that they [producers] can't spend an extra hour searching for Asian American male actors? Please.
Eric Byler's "Charlotte Sometimes" caught a large amount of grief because, like Hollywood's tradition, shows white men living it up with Asian women while Asian men were regulated to unromantic roles as the "friend." Ever since then, he has cast a decent, not good, but decent portrayal of Asian men in "Americanese." This just proves that Asian Americans in media are just as socially unconscious as whites. What makes matters worse is that you'll be hardpressed to find an Asian or Asian American that doesn't talk about Hollywood's racist ways. Most likely, they'll talk about his topic only to other Asian Americans but when the time comes to ante up, they fold.
Absolutely. Pathetic.
It's a shame really. When given the chance to undo Hollywood's racist stereotypes and typecasting, they choose to follow them to cater to the largest demographic, whites.
If this is the state of Asian American film, I'd rather watch Hollywood blockbusters with explosions and meatheads. At least I don't expect white Hollywood to be racially aware so it has less of a sting when they do it.
There are some Asian Americans that aren't interested in acting white, catering to whites, or attempting to be honorary whites. Many Asian American men aren't oppressive to women nor are they responsible for foot binding that happened 400 years ago. Stop whining and making excuses for your own pitiful attempts to justify your tendency to brown-nose the white male population at the expense of the Asian male image. Additionally, stop labeling your film an "Asian American" film if it excludes half of the Asian American population. You should at least be politically correct and call it an "Asian American female" film.
I know the filmmakers. That alone makes what you're saying entirely moot--with all do respect. I find no reason to doubt their word.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
Why does it make my point moot if you don't mind me asking? Sorry, your "trump card" doesn't work.
Just the fact that you can't refute my points should give you reason to doubt their word. For example, take the point that there are constant discussions of Asian American male actors out of work but yet they could find...none?
Another sticking point that was mentioned was that even though the producers defended the 3 WM/AF pairings with the "excuse" that none of them wind up together, that's not the point. The point is that just the social imagery of this already stereotypical pairing in American media in itself is cause for concern.
They had the chance to really make a difference but like almost all other Asian produced films, but actively chose not to and then proceeded to act surprised when there was "whining" from a demographic that has been consistently given the raw deal in American media. There is no excuse for their, as well as your, apathy and ignorance unless you have a racist agenda. After given proof, no one can deny that Asian Americans, especially men, have horrid portrayals in American media. The evidence is simply overwhelming and undeniable. Period.
No, we don't need more Asian faces in American media. We need more positive and non-stereotypical Asian faces in American media.
I stand by Kathy and georgia and Mia and the other film makers. Since you feel as you have lengthily expressed, there doesn't seem to eb any point in continuing this discussion, yes? I therefore leave it and you in peace.
I appreciate your time.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
Well, no.
I haven't resigned myself to a conclusion. What I stated is that their "excuses" are very poor in quality and unbelievable. Additionally, you have not offered any insight into why your point holds water. I believe Steve Corbert invented a phrase for your line of thinking called "Truthiness."
It's what you want to truth to be rather than what the truth actually is. Your blind loyalty to your friends is admirable but annoying and far from what can be deemed as discussion worthy.
"How did you come to that conclusion?"
"Just because. Trust me."
"Proof?"
"No proof. Trust me."
You may be annoyed if you wish. I am at peace with what I have already said and find no reason at this time to placate you in this matter. If you believe their reasons to be poor, that's your perrogative. It does not compel me to try and sway you from your decision. Or anyone else's.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
That's fine.
However, don't expect others to sit idly by as racism is perpetrated against a particular demographic. You said your piece and I've said mine. It's hilarious that one can come onto these boards and complain about others when your argument does absolutely nothing to pacify those concerns with discussion.
I've done everything in my power to encourage others not to see this movie and I think I've done a pretty good job. If you can reach just one person...
Maybe you'll learn from this thread and avoid the same type of discrimination with your productions unlike the cast and crew of this one.
Oh, I certainly don't expect idle by-sitting, that's for sure. (",)
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
However, how you can't feign ignorance as to why many are complaining about this movie. I see Asian American actors as perpetuating racial stereotypes rather than fighting them. It's nothing to be proud of and they certainly don't deserve any praise that they might receive.
If they don't feel it's their duty to fight racism in Hollywood, I see no need for them to complain about it either.
And I would add that some people are just easily offended and looking for a fight. Just because a person sees racial stereotypes or the like doesn't mean they are intentional or even actual. To accuse an Asian-American filmmaker of intentionally making a film that typifies Asians and denying their claims to the contrary seems a bit mystifying to me. It's assuming an awful lot and it doesn't make much sense--to me.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
Some people are easily offended and they have full right to be. I'm not about to tell others what they shouldn't find offensive. I've already discussed the horrendous portrayal of Asian men in Hollywood and it makes perfect sense that this demographic would lash out against such a provocation. If anything, you're not taking it from the other side of the perspective. Rather than saying it's nothing we should get worked up over it, why don't you do a little review and imagine if white and black men were completely invisible or typecasted? I'm sure you'd hear how they're "offended."
You're right in saying that just because a person sees racial stereotypes is inherently guilty. However, it's when you put your stereotypes into action, such as movie casting, is when it IS intentional.
The original denial of their claims of anti-Asian sentiment was that the original Asian actors dropped out for other projects. However, many commented that we constantly hear about Asian male actors being out of work. The main criticism then fell on the cast and crew again for their failure to be a decent effort to replace the previous Asian men with other Asian men. The ball is now in your court, not mine. You, as someone is trying to defend their "claims to the contrary," simply offered a rebuttal akin to "trust me, they tried hard enough." As I stated before, sorry, not buying it since you don't offer any proof to your point.
I don't think it's a question of me offering proof. This is all about opinion and assumption and allusions to racial improprieties on a filmmaker's part--despite her equally vehement statements to the contrary.
If someone told me that my son at 1pm yesterday morning spoke to me in a disrepsectful manner, when I know for certain that (one) he did not and (two) they weren't even with me and my son at that time, on what grounds would they have to persist in their assertions. Their best position would be to simply accept what I say as truth, since I know for certain what I am talking about and they do not.
In my opinion, it's a similar (though not perfect, so please don't say "That's totally different!" or something similar) in the case of Red Doors and its producers. Rather than try to froce an issue, wouldn't it make more sense to simply take the filmmakers' word concerning their own product? I don't need to prove anything. They have delivered their statement. The only problem seems to be with OTHER PEOPLE, who weren't even involved with the project.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
Let me ask you this then...
Do you have firsthand knowledge behind the going-ons of this movie? Were you involved with the casting director and offered input into who should get the role? Are you in firsthand contact with the cast and crew of this movie? If so, I would give your point more credence but you would have to at least offer an identity as to whom you are. As far as I know, you're just a fan of this movie and just vehemently denying negative accusations just because you don't want the image of both the crew and movie to suffer any negative commentary.
Your example is fine and I get the idea. However, unless you were part of the project or know the people firsthand, I have little reason to believe you or the producers' commentary. It's an accusation based on assumption but let me clue you into something; people *will* lie in order to avoid criticism, especially on such a touchy subject. This movie has generated quite a buzz in several Asian American discussions in both internet forums as well as Asian college clubs such as mine.
I don't take anything at face value and I don't trust anyone's excuses unless there is hard evidence to support it. You simply don't offer it and I'll continue to dig for facts and criticize this movie for what it is, racial discrimination. Asian men are omitted from Hollywood and it's criticized, why should this be any different?
Yes, the complaints are from people that weren't involved with the project. No, no one should take anyone at their word on their own project. I wasn't involved with the planning of the Iraqi war but that doesn't mean I have to believe our country's leaders. See how that works?
If you were directly involved with the project or crew and the excuse they provided is indeed valid, at least identify yourself and your point will be accepted. However, if you weren't involved with he project at all and believe everyone's excuses at face value, your comments are just as void as mine since you don't know for sure either.
It's just a guess but it's seems very important to you that you are not proven wrong. I think you will go to almost any extent to avoid that. Also, you want the freedom to say what you please but none of the obligation or responsibility to have those statements questioned or proven. On top of that, you demand the freedom to question everyone else's statements and demand certain proof that only you approve.
Well, it's plain we're at an empasse, huh?
It's been a pleasure.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
Yes, we're at an impasse because you can't grasp the idea of human fallacy. Since you obviously can't answer any questions as to whether or not you were even involved with this project, you're hypothesizing as much as I am.
Since you weren't here when I made my decision, you can't question it because you weren't there! In case I made a mistake, I don't wish to receive criticism on my part so accept my explanation at face value! You can trust my excuses even though I have a reason to lie about it! Anyone that questions it is automatically uninformed or ignorant despite evidence to the contrary! Go me! Yes! I covered that up pretty well!
Insanity. Judging from your angle of approach, it's safe to say you're either white or an Asian American female. Big surprise.
You are absolutely right. You are sooooo right, I see no reason to continue this conversation anymore. Boy, you are so, so, so, SO right. I know I'm a changed man. My mind is EXPANDING as we speak--ooh, there it goes again! You have revolutionized my life. You should write a book, have a tv show, so right you are. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, your are, of course. My GOSH, how did it take me soooooo long to see that you are so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so....so, so right!!! In fact, I propose that in every dictionary in the the world, YOUR picture should be right beside the word "right. And...and may I say I look forward to your Second Coming, when the whole world will know that, man...you are RIGHT!
Okay? Does that do it for you? Can you let this go and move on with your life with these words?
By the way, I'm not white and I'm not female.
"He said he was greater than God. No one is."
I could care less about you but was merely pointing out why the other side is so angry. I'm not trying to convince your sorry ass but rather showing the other side. Either accept or shut the hell up.
Ay..ay..ay...people..people.... stop bickering. The biggest problem is that the movie has no point. At the end, you feel nothing. A movie is supposed to do that..make you feel...whatever. Angry, sad, loving, laughter, it's all a feeling.
This movie makes you feel nothing. The acting is marginal and as I said on other boards, it was a rushed movie. Believe me. I worked on it. I saw it coming from a mile away when I fell asleep by the boring scenes and dialogue. Jaqueline Kim, as beautiful as she is..jeez... boring actress. It's like she didn;t wanna be there, but she got paid well (well... in terms of an indie films). But Tzi Ma got paid well too, and he did a much better job with cluncky dialogue and scratch and sniff plot.
And yes, ironically, the youngest sister of Georgia Lee has done a terrific jon considering her acting career was non-existent ( well, it;s not like it's taking off...)
the bigger problem that I gather, was that Georgia got the money, rented a bunch of Italian movies ( or what ever they reccomend in film schools), thought about NOT going to graduate school and going to film school, ask her mom to help pay for school. While non of this is a bad thing, it does say that unfortunately the woman does not have much creative juices, despite of the fact that she is actually a decent human being.
Her experience is limited to Connecticut middle to upper class whites, mingled with well to do asians.
She would die if she spent 6 weeks in Chinatown in NY, with no mommy to pay for her channel bag.
I find it ironic that she wanted to "tell a story about asian american experience" when ultimately she told a boring movie. No big deal. It's not like the movie got her a CAA agent, even though she meticulously was trying to meet one ( Harvard does teach a great course in netwroking and management).
James Cameron is an *beep* but damn he can tell a story. He's just good at it. Simple.
Zzbamzz
Thanks for presenting your arguments. I haven't seen "Red Doors", but red flags started to go off when I watched the preview. I found several issues with it, and some of what you argued articulated said issues that made me uncomfortable.
Well, I think Kathy did a great job. I am very proud of her, since she seems to be able to accomplish anything she puts her mind to. I am not exactly sure how this post digressed as it did, but I am not exactly sure why just because these ladies are Asian-American, they somehow have to represent the entire Asian-American community. I'll be honest, it is not my favorite movie, but I am happy that the Lee sisters have been able to chase a shared passion for film! Way to go Ladies!
shareIt's not about representing your community. The gripe is that it further serves to ignore Asian men just like Hollywood has done in the past. As far as I see, if you're not part of the solution, you're also part of the oppressive system.
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