um, i went to the website and saw an asian family--dad, mom, three daughters...and three young WHITE men???!!! are none of the girls dating an asian man?
asian men have a hard enough time being seen as love interests in regular hollywood...now our own filmmakers are perpetuating this stereotype?
this isn't my site, but i'm a fan of it:
http://www.angryasianman.com/
Yeah, I think it's rather tragic and insulting Georgia Lee didn't decide to cast asian males. Not even one, it just seems bizarre that an asian-american director would totally avert any asian male love interests. I wonder what she was thinking.
shareSomeone asked about this during the QA session yesterday at the San Jose showing as part of the SF International Asian American Film Festival. If I understood her correctly Georgia Lee originally casted Asian guys for I think two of the roles, one being Sam's old flame and the other being Katie's rival. It was unfortunate that both of these guys had to cancel at the last minute and Mia Riverton had to find a replacement within 24 hours.
The Asian guy who was originally casted for Sam's old flame was a big singer in China, I think, and was pressured by Sony to finish his recording. I don't remember the other Asian guy's excuse for leaving.
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Why don't you watch the movie first before you make any judgements. One of the main leads is a lesbian who doesn't end up with any guys.
The director also said that no Asian actors showed up for the replacement auditions. What was she supposed to do, drag random guys off the street?
Yet she was able to find an Asian guy to be a random bar patron. How is it that hard to find an Asian male in any metropolitan city? I'm starting to understand the idea how Asian women just aren't interested in helping Asian males and would rather perpetuate the stereotype that they're desirable.
Bang up job. Keep up the good work.
"...would rather perpetuate the stereotype that they're desirable" should read "...would rather perpetuate the stereotype that they're *not* desirable."
Who needs white Hollywood to perpetuate the asexual Asian male when Asian women can do it for them?
Did it ever occur to you that:
1. Just because you can find an extra to be a random bar patron, it doesn't mean he can act, play a supporting role, and have chemistry with the rest of the cast, and generally do a good job in a more significant role?
2. Maybe the filmmakers were busy juggling all of the 10,000 things involved in making a good movie instead of trying to figure out how to turn around the stereotypes of Asian males? Do you think it's the job of every Asian American filmmaker to find some way to work Asian males into their films? Why don't you go make a movie and then we can talk.
I feel the stereotype and not-so-subtle social nuances of being an Asian American male as much as the next guy, but it doesn't make sense to blame the filmmakers for not working harder to turn it around.
Yes, I have seen the movie. It was excellent.
From the Georgia Lee interview on the Visual Communications website: http://www.vconline.org/screenings/reddoors.html
In case the link doesn't work:
"[VC]: Out of curiosity, why didn’t you cast any APA males as the romantic counterparts?
[GL]: I had originally offered two of the three male romantic roles to two APA male actors who are good friends of mine. Both are very talented and were perfect for the characters. They both had accepted the roles and were very excited to be part of the project. However, before shooting each one had to drop out at the last minute, forcing us to recast at the eleventh hour. They each had to drop out for separate and very different reasons and regretted being unable to participate in the film. In our ensuing casting calls, I cast the best actors that I saw for the parts (note: no APA males came to these auditions).
I feel that it is very important for me to emphasize that the original casting decision was not made because my friends were APA males but because they were talented actors that were right for those specific parts. These two individuals were cast because of their innate skills and fit for the roles which were written color-blind and based on character rather than racial background.
I have been hesitant to tell people about the casting process for obvious reasons. First of all, I wanted to protect the privacy of the process and those involved. The two APA male actors are both well-known names in our community and had their own private reasons for not being able to take part in the film. They were both very excited to be involved in the project and had extenuating circumstances that could not be resolved in time for our shoot. I felt that the responsible thing to do was to respect their privacy. In addition, I also wanted to protect the actors that did end up playing the roles in the film (APA or not APA). I did not want them to feel in any way that they were a scrappy second choice. We went through a full (albeit rushed) re-casting process with my casting director and found two equally talented and wonderful actors who ended up doing a brilliant job in the film.
I think that some believe that any artist or public figure from a traditionally marginalized group somehow bears the added responsibility of “representing” the community. I personally feel that it would be at best misguided and at worst, reductive to try and present some uniform positive “image” to mainstream media. That act in and of itself perpetuates the idea that people can be stereotyped. I think the most powerful thing an artist can do is to try and present characters and situations that are as complex and real as possible. If audiences can relate to the faces they see on screen as human beings, first and foremost (whether those faces are black, white, yellow, or brown and whether they are straight, gay, lesbian, transsexual, or bi-curious), we will have taken a step in the right direction of human understanding."
She was able to find more than enough asian woman but not one asian male? Was it that she couldn't find one or that she wasn't looking for one. Does it really surprise you though. When I first heard about the movie I didn't think there would be any either besides the dad. I knew for a fact no asian men would be the husband or bf. What can you say though look at all the movies made by an asian female, there is almost never an asian love interest. They hate asian guys.
shareThis is bullsh*t. Somehow black directors always ended up finding black male actors for female black actress...and somehow an ASian filmmaker has trouble finding asian male actors opposite asian female actors. Bunch of bollocks!!
shareMaybe it's not such a bad thing that there weren't any asian males in it. If there were asian males in it they would probably just be showed in a bad light anyways.
shareWhy do Asian filmmakers bring up the colorblind issue? They just "happened" to be white? Perhaps, but I have a question; why should Asian American films cater to whites when Hollywood doesn't return the favor? The Asian American film community or any other Asian in any type of media venue sickens me. Nothing despises me more than these clowns. I'd much rather have David Duke represent the Asian American community. Not only are these individuals catering to the lowest common denominator, racism, but pretend to be ignorant of racial issues as the last line of defense. Some even call critics of this observations of reverse racism to, ironically, shield themselves of the same exact accusations.
Sure, they just happened to be white. That might have worked if no one had access any form of mainstream media to realize the interracial disparity ratio in Hollywood. Hell, there isn't even a ratio. An Asian woman with a white male is so mainstream, it's not even considered interracial anymore.
Should Asian Americans go the extra mile and fix an obvious wrong? Absolutely. Who else is going to do it? Should we expect whites to magically see the error of their ways and correct the situation for us? I speak from experience. I was in charge of Asian American film representing my college and have personally raised thousands of dollars in just a few months to finance small Asian American themed films. Not only was making film a creative outlet but it also felt good, as small as it may be, to counter Hollywood's whitewashed movies. We didn't ignore whites either as they were part of the mainstream cast.
I'm extremely irate that Phil from AAM would endorse this piece of trash. Despicable. She needs the support of the Asian American community but, in turn, pisses on half of it? This is what makes my blood boil.
It's not the propensity for her being a sellout that represents us but rather the audacity. As far as I'm concerned, she can get whites to support this film because that's what she's catering to. I've watched the first release of this film and, if anything, I'll go to my former Asian college groups and denounce this garbage.
I'm a hapa with a white mother and Asian father and she has personally insulted me by participating in the same media system that ignores the very essence of my being. The producer, Mia Riverton, on the other hand, is represented perfectly.
If Asian males are to be represented at all, non-impotent and non-apologetic Asian males will have to do it themselves which the community has few of. If the media is to portray a positive mainstream portrayal, it would take an act of God. I really don't care for these excuses, be it "not wanting to be a rolemodel" or "we couldn't find Asian guys at all," but it shows the true colors of the Asian American community and can be summed up in one word, "pathetic."
Yet Georia Lee was able to find an Asian man to play a NERDY, GEEKY role as the second sister's UNdesirable date.
shareWow, so much anger in this thread.
I am a producer on this film. I am an Asian-American woman. I am happily married to an Asian-American man. I agree with the sentiment that the lack of Asian-American representation in media is a sad trend that needs to be rectified. It is one of the reasons why we made RED DOORS in the first place and the entire reason why we made RED DOORS independently.
What I disagree with is the assertion that any perceived racism in our film was due to a deliberate agenda on the part of the filmmakers. We did not make this film to cater to whites. Nor did we make this film to cater to the "Asian agenda." I made this film because when I first read Georgia's script, I laughed, I cried, and I was inspired to quit my day job to pursue a dream.
Here are the facts:
1. Lee-Hom Wang, a Taiwanese rock star, was originally cast in the role of Alex (the oldest daughter's high school flame) but he dropped out the week before his first scene was scheduled to shoot because Sony needed him back in Asia to record his new album.
2. Leonardo Nam, who starred in one of Georgia's short films, was originally cast in the role of Simon (the youngest daughter's nemesis/flirtation) but he dropped out three days before his first scene because he was offered - and took - a role in SISTERHOOD OF THE TRAVELING PANTS.
3. We sent out casting calls through the usual trade publications and through our casting director (who also cast Michael Kang's THE MOTEL and is casting Michael's current Korean-American feature) for both roles when the original actors dropped out. No Asian-American actors showed up at the auditions.
In hindsight, did we do everything under the sun to ensure that Asian-American males would be "properly" represented in our film? Probably not. But you know, we were first-time filmmakers making a film for $200,000. We didn't have the luxury to stop production and cherry-pick our actors. The sad truth is that if it weren't for a quirk of scheduling, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
Should we go the extra mile because white Hollywood won't? Absolutely. We based an entire film on an Asian-American family. We created an Asian-American lesbian. We created first generation Asian-Americans who don't speak with heavy accents. We acknowledge that there are lots of extra miles still out there. That's what second and third films are for.
The point of all this is not to be defensive but to be proactive. RED DOORS is not supposed to be "quintessentially" or "ubiquitously" Asian-American. It is one particular, semi-autobiographical story. We don't need individual stories that are "more PC" or "more empowering." What we need is more stories. Period.
Once the selection of Asian-American films becomes as diverse as the individuals that make up Asian-America, then we will have better representation. But this is not the burden of one film. It is the burden of an entire community to tell these stories. If I can make a film, you can. Anybody can.
If RED DOORS is not your cup of tea, so be it. We encourage you to check out BETTER LUCK TOMORROW, THE MOTEL, ROBOT STORIES, SAVING FACE, AMERICANESE, IN BETWEEN DAYS, and a host of other Asian-American films. Not one of them is "representative" of the Asian-American experience but that is because our experience transcends definition.
perhaps...
but it's naive and borderline ignorant to think that by changing the race of lead romantic roles, the racial dynamics of the movie aren't going to change.
take Hitch for example, orginally they were going to have a black woman as Will Smith's love interest, but the producers felt that going that route would only attract a black audience and that white people would've viewed it as just another "black" movie similar to Waiting to Exhale, Soul Food, etc etc.
...and I think that's what's going on here. While the script may have been the best script in the world, and a question of race never popped in the heads of the producers, on screen, race plays a major factor.
Even though you feel you may have accomplished the general goal of the movie, i think a lot of people now feel alienated. Asian guys view it as just another Joy Luck Club and asian women view it as another personal narrative by an asian american woman which doesn't include asian american men.
I know this wasn't intentional, but unless the plan is to make it widely known that this movie tried to cast asian men and to portray them positively, I'd guess a lot of the asian movie viewers aren't going to see it.
Everyone in Asian American cinema knows that Asian men have historically been kicked to the curb when it comes to visible roles in movies. Everyone in Asian American cinema knows that AF/WM is a sensitive issue with both AF and AM due to this exclusion. Everyone knows, especially in light of Better Luck Tomorrow, that Asian Americans want to see more Asian American men in cinema.
I'm tired of hearing excuses for not doing the right thing. It's very hard to believe that three women from Harvard couldn't figure out how offensive it is to exclude Asian American men and then claim diversity. Could it be Harvard’s requirements have become extremely lax? We read so much about how many Asian American actors are out of work; if you couldn't find any, it seems clear that you didn’t bother looking at all or you did have some ulterior racial motive. With people like you, who needs whites to do the excluding? You do it just fine!
I will say that it's hypocritical of you to market this as a work of diversity or Asian American storytelling when it's clear that the movie has zero young Asian men (except for maybe the lad in the trailer who gets rejected by the lesbian or the father). If I didn’t know better, it sounds like something a white male would make. The Asian men are either old or young so they’re not sexually competing with Asian men for Asian women. Market it all you want; it's a free country. Just don’t sell everyone short and tell people that it's good for diversity because intentional or not, you've obviously discriminatory against a demographic which has a history of being excluded.
And last I heard, neither Rick Yune nor Vic Chao was doing much.
PS: If you really cared about this issue, you'd actually address the posts in question rather than just cut/paste your generic response across several boards.
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Ms. Producer Lady,
Before you start patting yourself on the back for the boldness of "creating an Asian-American lesbian" and "first generation Asian-Americans who don't speak with heavy accents", you should rent some of the movies you're recommending. You guys didn't create diddly squat. It's telling how far back our community is when that's all you got in your arsenal as to why this movie is worth seeing.
I guess you guys also "created" the overachieving Asian American daughter and the old-fashioned Asian mother who speaks with an exaggerated (and badly done) accent and says "aiya" a lot. Two steps forward and three steps back.
Please. No new ground has been broken with this film and it's silly that you are trying to market it as such.
Some individual stories are simply not meant to be anything more than a blog entry.
AgentCrim,
I don't know if you're asian or not, all I can tell you is that I'm a white and I worked on that movie. The producer lady is an amateur and the girls had it easy, because they come from Wall Street and they've mustered their $200,000 with the help of that connection.
There's nothing wrong with that, except that they made a very bad movie. I know the heated subject of asian stereotypes is highly debated here, but outside of that grave mistake, there's nothing interesting about this movie because it's all cliched!
Of course Jane Chen, the producer, is going to argue differently. You can't tell her her baby is ugly, right?
But the fact remains that the movie was made in 2004 and was nowhere near as good as the other "asian american stories" coming out... hence why a small company picked up the movie.
The directing was lazy and so was the performances. Georgia Lee made a movie for her parents to enjoy and to pat herself on the honor of making a movie. Bring the cheerleaders, sound the hornets. Big deal!!
I think someone on this board said that Lee grew up in Connecticut. True. Wow, a hard life, heh? She is as much connected with the asian community as white boys want to be black rap stars. It reminds me of a joke: " A guy comes up to a white guy dressed like a rapper and asks him where he's from. The white wanna be rapper says: I'm from the streets man. Which streets?
Ugh.... Malibu!!"
That pretty much sums up the life experience of Lee, Cheng and the other half asian chick that plays the sister's lesbian lover. Oh...and by the way, she's a harvard grad. ooooo, so much for "it's a hard knock life" huh?
Hey freshfarm,
I am Asian, Chinese to be specific.
Regardless of my personal problems with the picture. As a movie, it really blew. I don't know how they got this afterschool special of a movie into the Angelika and I also don't know how they got so many good reviews. This movie is just so silly (the whole Mia Scarlett thing), cheap looking (the night at the opera) and amateurish (the dialogue).
While you were working on the movie, did you have any indication that Georgia Lee understands what a director is supposed to do? Because all the scenes have the dramatic weight of a feather.
You would think some filmmaker who's got $200,000 at her disposal and some common sense would seek out a script or a story worth telling rather than subject an audience to a boring autobiography about a rich Chinese family with no real problems other than the dog pooping in the house. Oh, I forgot, the father wants to kill himself but since none of the daughters seemed to care, why should I?
You're absolutely right, Agent Crim. Mia Scarlett was DYING to be in movies, but otherwise she a wanna be with no serious acting capabilities. And yes, the father wants to kill himself...who knows why.
The truth is that MANY of the first time directors rush to make a movie BECAUSE they have the money but they don't think ( nor do they listen) to try to make a good story.
georgia lee, jane chen and Mia Scarlett, are all upper class girls, trying to make a movie that supposedly "says something". As a white guy, I wondered through out the production, why didn't they cast an asian actor. So what if a star asian actor is not available. there are MANY good and talented asian actors out there and this movie wasn't going to be sold on "the stars attached". Most indies are not anyway.
Besides being white, I'm an immigrant myself. English is my second language, so why in the world wouldn't they have some funny moments with the mother trying to communicate with others in English?
I wish it was more of a question of: "The white man puts us down". Bu no. The BIGGEST problem is that Georgia Lee furthers the stereotypes of asians, without even knowing or for that matter, caring. And that is what's sad.
oh..and I forgot to tell you Agent Crim how how concise and on the nose you are with your comments. Hat's off!
shareVery well said! It's a shame that most of the negative comments being made are by people who have no expeirence with a film, outside of watching the finished product and aren't aware of the numerous hours spent going into it's production. (I'm only referring to the casting choices at the last minute - I haven't seen the film, so I can't rate the quality itself).
---
Indie Film Seeking Producers Like You!
http://www.15minsfame.org
Whoa, Lee Hom Wang? If he was in it, you would have had an international hit, considering how big he is now. He would have been the star attraction on the poster. Without him... well, you know the rest.
shareby janechen74 » Wed Aug 23 2006 23:17:28
IMDb member since March 2004
Wow, so much anger in this thread.Wang LeeHom is American as apple pie. Born in NY (USA). The guy speaks broken Chinese. share
I am a producer on this film. I am an Asian-American woman. I am happily married to an Asian-American man. I agree with the sentiment that the lack of Asian-American representation in media is a sad trend that needs to be rectified. It is one of the reasons why we made RED DOORS in the first place and the entire reason why we made RED DOORS independently.
What I disagree with is the assertion that any perceived racism in our film was due to a deliberate agenda on the part of the filmmakers. We did not make this film to cater to whites. Nor did we make this film to cater to the "Asian agenda." I made this film because when I first read Georgia's script, I laughed, I cried, and I was inspired to quit my day job to pursue a dream.
Here are the facts:
1. Lee-Hom Wang, a Taiwanese rock star, was originally cast in the role of Alex (the oldest daughter's high school flame) but he dropped out the week before his first scene was scheduled to shoot because Sony needed him back in Asia to record his new album.
2. Leonardo Nam, who starred in one of Georgia's short films, was originally cast in the role of Simon (the youngest daughter's nemesis/flirtation) but he dropped out three days before his first scene because he was offered - and took - a role in SISTERHOOD OF THE TRAVELING PANTS.
3. We sent out casting calls through the usual trade publications and through our casting director (who also cast Michael Kang's THE MOTEL and is casting Michael's current Korean-American feature) for both roles when the original actors dropped out. No Asian-American actors showed up at the auditions.
In hindsight, did we do everything under the sun to ensure that Asian-American males would be "properly" represented in our film? Probably not. But you know, we were first-time filmmakers making a film for $200,000. We didn't have the luxury to stop production and cherry-pick our actors. The sad truth is that if it weren't for a quirk of scheduling, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
Should we go the extra mile because white Hollywood won't? Absolutely. We based an entire film on an Asian-American family. We created an Asian-American lesbian. We created first generation Asian-Americans who don't speak with heavy accents. We acknowledge that there are lots of extra miles still out there. That's what second and third films are for.
The point of all this is not to be defensive but to be proactive. RED DOORS is not supposed to be "quintessentially" or "ubiquitously" Asian-American. It is one particular, semi-autobiographical story. We don't need individual stories that are "more PC" or "more empowering." What we need is more stories. Period.
Once the selection of Asian-American films becomes as diverse as the individuals that make up Asian-America, then we will have better representation. But this is not the burden of one film. It is the burden of an entire community to tell these stories. If I can make a film, you can. Anybody can.
If RED DOORS is not your cup of tea, so be it. We encourage you to check out BETTER LUCK TOMORROW, THE MOTEL, ROBOT STORIES, SAVING FACE, AMERICANESE, IN BETWEEN DAYS, and a host of other Asian-American films. Not one of them is "representative" of the Asian-American experience but that is because our experience transcends definition.
To my friend Peter, the OP who started this debate:
If this is your favorite site, you might wish to go and read his 9/2 defense of RED DOORS:
http://www.angryasianman.com/angry.html
Just saying, is all.
If the love interests were As-Am, anyone could STILL call it a bashing represetation, as all of the men are ultimately rejected ("Oh! Why did she dump the As-Am guy?").
Watch it first, then we'll have the debate.
Actually, no.
The administrator that runs that website simply cut and paste what someone else said. That "someone else" is also a friend of the director and crew of the movie so I'm willing to bet there is a bit of bias.
Try again.
Additionally, I've talked with several individuals that have complained about this movie and they've said that it's not the fact of whether or not the roles were negative, it's the fact that Asian men are almost completely invisible. If negative portrayals, or the current defense supporters such as yourself are pushing, why wouldn't there be such an outrage about the lone Asian guy that gets rejected by the lesbian daughter? I also want to point out that Asian men would even rather the love interests be black, Latino, or Arab. The image of yet another white man with an Asian female love interest is BORING, OLD, and almost to the point of racist.
It's the imagery, not the content of the role. Pay attention.
I've seen this movie so you can feel free to debate with me. I haven't paid to see it, thank god. Telling others that they can't comment on something because they haven't experienced is laughable. I don't need to have my legs sawed off in order to know it's extremely painful, do I?
As my college's largest Asian American group's president, I've done my part and personally discouraged an attempt to support the viewing of this film in NYC with a group effort. Also, I have stressed that individuals that are disgruntled with this film to not "view it and discuss it later" as they would already have your money. Pay to see the new Tony Jaa movie isntead. Maybe next time our own "Asian Americans" won't have their head completely up their ass when they slap part of their demographic in the face.
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I'm a white guy and even I find it odd that an asian director would cast all white men dating the sisters. Not even julie's lesbian lover was asian. And the parents didn't seem to care. Than again, I'd bet there attitude would've changed if Katie brought home a black guy. I dated an asian girl once, and she told me her parents preferred her to date asian guys, would accept white guys, but would disown her if she brought home a black/hispanic guy. So I think maybe the point of this movie, and maybe I'm wrong, is that asians are interchangeble with white people, as white people wouldn't move from a neighborhood if asians started moving in, and white people would accept asians and vice versa. I don't think any other minority is so accepted and intergrated (at least on the east coast where I live).
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I wouldn't say so much as interchangeable as more of wannabe. And no, Asian has as much of a hard time as other minority. White flight applies to Asian as well.
Now, the problem with this film, and why most AA community dislikes it, is because, in order of importance:
1. The producer of the films wants to claim it is an AA film, when it is just rehash all the old Asian stereotypes. Rebellious daughter, over strict father, daughter bring home white bfs..
2. It dose not empower AA community, nor does it bring up the issues facing AA community (except getting the point that strict Asian father/culture = bad)
3. It ignored the half the AA demography in its cast, and apparently the producer did not see the problem with that. So I guess AA = only the female half?
It wouldn't have been that much of a controversy if the producers just market it as Joy Luck Club 2. But they tried to get the AA community support and tried to claim it as an AA film, which just pissed off whole load of people, due to the 3 reasons above.
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well maybe next time you can try harder, this is what didn't make it work for me, 2 stars for this movie
shareHAHAHA... I just noticed that one of the white guys is the lead actor in The Covenant.
shareThey shouldn't have promoted this movie as an Asian American breakthrough, and be honest and simply said it was a next generation Joy Luck Club movie which their core demographic (Asiaphile White males and White-worshiping Asian females) would enjoy. It clearly wasn't made for any other people, and I doubt any other people saw this garbage film.
share[deleted]
Thanks for posting this. I'm not Asian, but the last thing I want to see is a movie about a family full of obsequious boot-licking Asian people who are in love with white folks. Thanks, but no thanks.
share