I get (at least more or less) the different story lines.
What I don't get: When Jackman relives the same situation twice, the second time he decides differently (follows Izzy instead of performing surgery on the monkey) ... but how come, he gets to relive the same situation a second time ?
Was there time travel involved ?
Or else how would you explain it ?
It depends on whom you talk to.
I personally believe there is no time travel at all, but rather 3 stories, each with a different point of view.
1. Dr. Tom - Tom and Izzy's combined POV
2. Conquistador - Izzy's POV
3. Bubble Tom - Tom's POV
A lot of people try to say that Dr. Tom lives hundreds of years, builds a spaceship, and bring the tree (grown from the seed he plants on Izzy's grave) to Xibalba... That theory would have to involve time travel because we see Xibalba go dark at the end while Tom is looking at it... which means Tom would live to be hundreds of years old, then travel in his bubble ship back through time thousands or millions of years to get to Xibalba before it dies. While we see it die in the present day, it is tens, hundreds, thousands or millions of light years away (we don't know bc it is not real) hence his need to travel thousands or millions of years into the past, then time if perfectly to enter Xibalba in his bubble ship at the moment it explodes.
this does not fit that well - IMHO - with the rest of the film.
I think the tri-fold POV structure makes much more sense.
And I think the time travel is a fallback excuse for people who don't see or can't grasp (or hate) the multi-layered narrative style
God does not build in straight lines.
You only read the posting title, but not the posting.
shareif you read my post, it negates the possibility of time travel, and thus answers your post, which concluded with "how else would you explain it."
Time travel does not fit with the actual narrative style, and thus, he did not live the same situation twice.
and since time travel did not happen, perhaps we are simply seeing an exploration in his mind of what would have happened had he made a different choice.
God does not build in straight lines.
You still haven't read and/or understood my OP (emphasis added for your convenience):
Jackman relives the same situation twice, the second time he decides differently (follows Izzy instead of performing surgery on the monkey) ... but how come, he gets to relive the same situation a second time ?You did not answer that in the slightest in your first reply.
Time travel does not fit with the actual narrative style, and thus, he did not live the same situation twice.Just because it doesn't fit your perceived style, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
perhaps we are simply seeing an exploration […]ok, so you don't know.
Jackman relives the same situation twice, the second time he decides differently (follows Izzy instead of performing surgery on the monkey) ... but how come, he gets to relive the same situation a second time ?
As the ceator of this thread, I respectfully ask everyone (including irishpisano) to refrain from discussion of the entire film structure and storylines, simply because there are already MORE than enough other threads that deal with that topic.
I really want to focus and narrow down the issue to the one SINGLE SITUATION in the movie, that's occuring TWICE. There is no need to involve the other timelines, because in the other timelines nothing happens twice! This makes the situation unique/special and thus must be discussed apart.
And it can be discussed independently of the whole film structure. If you feel unable to do so, irishpisano, then I respectfully ask you to please leave this thread and give others the chance to try. But you are very welcome to try for yourself if you are willing to really focus on this one situation.
Another reason for excluding discussion of the whole timeline film structure is the fact, that this discussion has been ongoing for years without any clear consensus (there are proponents of various explanations) and I neither prented to nor want to solve this issue here in this thread (because a consensus won't magically appear just by starting a new thread).
But aside from this feasibility argument, I truly believe that this smaller issue can be solved independently of involving the bigger issues at play here.
So please let's get back to the start:
There is 1 single situation in the movie which Jackman goes through twice (in each he decides differently leading to different outcomes).
There must be an explanation for this !
What is the explanation for this situation occuring twice ?
Eliminating evidence because it complicates or disagrees with your theory is not how you investigate something.
The entire film is 3 intertwined timelines (or 2) as PROVEN when meditating/levitating Bubble Tom appears in the presence of the Tomas...
you cannot ignore the plot structure when analyzing a plot point.
So let's look at the situation you're hellbent on isolating:
Does Dr. Tom go through the situation twice? Does his consciousness exist in a timeloop that allows him to relive moments and make different decisions - like Phil does in Groundhog Day? Is there evidence to support this (which means you'll have to look at the rest of the film, which you don't want to do)?
Is it possible that we are looking what an alternate possibility? that we are being shown what would have happened if Dr. Tom had made the other decision?
Is it possible that Dr. Tom has - after living out the ramifications of not following Izzy - explored, in his mind, a fantasy of what would have happened had he followed her?
The answer to this lies in the rest of the film.
If there is an answer.
But alas, you do not want to talk about the rest of the film.
Pity.
God does not build in straight lines.
There is no different timelines. The Queen of Spain time was in the Izzie's book that she is writing. Its a fictional story in the movie "world". The "present time" is like a flashback. Tom is remembering his experiences around the time his love (Izzie) died. The "Spaceship" is inside Tom's head when he is in his deathbed. The tree in the 'spaceship' came from the seedling that Tom planted on Izzie's grave. A lifetime is too short for a tree to grow to that size, so its Tom imagining the tree as a full grown tree.
Thats why Tom speaks to the tree is if its Izzie. The hairs of the tree is like Izzie's hairs behind her neck when he whispers to her. The 'spaceship' sequences are all a love letter to Izzie. Everything in there is about her, even the journey to Xibalba is something she was fascinated with. Tom is thinking about his love, moments before he dies.
All throughout Tom's life he had trouble accepting death and in his career he fought to cure people of death but it's inevitable so the movie is about him accepting the fact that people have to eventually die.
The director of the movie even said so himself, that the movie is about accepting the death of your loved ones and of yourself.
There is no complicated intertwined storylines that spans 2000 years or anything like that. The movie is filled with similies and metaphors
I agree that there are no complicated intertwined storylines that span 2000 years, and that it's mostly metaphors.....
what do you think about the triple POV concept? that the 1500s is izzie's pov, the bubble is tom's pov, and the modern-day is their combined story?
God does not build in straight lines.