MovieChat Forums > Brideshead Revisited (2008) Discussion > saw the movie a few weeks ago, now on mi...

saw the movie a few weeks ago, now on miniseries

posted 15 years ago by CallingKevin
17 replies | jump to latest

A few weeks ago I saw this movie for the first time. I had not read the book or seen the miniseries. I didn't know too much about the story before I went except a lot of it takes place at a beautiful English estate. I decided to go without any expectations at all. I'm a young (well... 25) gay man and fascinated with the English estates.

To be honest, and this will drive many on here crazy, I really enjoyed the movie! I was totally interested and immersed from beginning to end. I felt for the characters and the story. Of course I related to the relationship between Charles and Sebastian most since I'm gay (hence my disclosure above)- it was indeed a surprise. I really liked the movie.

I liked this movie so much that I decided to rent the miniseries on DVD from our local library and currently right in the middle of it. I like the miniseries as well. I can appreciate why many on this board feel that the movie is disappointing compared to the miniseries because there's a lot more information in the miniseries than the movie. To totally judge the two, however, I feel is a bit harsh (no offense, please). The miniseries has so many more hours to go into all the intricacies of the plot and character development which the movie simply couldn't. Of course, for a disclaimer, I'm not finished with the miniseries yet. I do find the movie can stand on it's own merit though. Some times in the series (which I wasn't used to the old fashioned 1980's filming techniques).. seemed long, drawn out, and almost... dare I say it... tedious compared to the movie. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the series at all! In fact, once I got used to it, I really am interested in it and it is fascinating! I only mean that the two mediums are quite different- regardless ofthe choices for interpretations of plot and characters. I feel that many simply fell in love with the miniseries (and rightfully so), and when the movie came back decades later, unfairly compared the two. No offense.

As for the book, I haven't touched it yet... perhaps after I finish the miniseries.

How people have reacted to this movie reminds me of a joke a commedian once said: She took her nieces and nephews to the latest Harry Potter movie. After leaving the theater they complained: "oooh, it was disappointing! They took soo much out of the movie! this and that didn't happen the way it was! They left this chapter out, and that chapter was different! It wasn't nearly as good as the book!!!" She looked at them and deadpanned: "Well... I guess that's what you get for readin'!"I didn't read any of the books and I thought the movie was GREAT!"

I don't mean to offend anyone. I just wanted to point out that I thought this movie was great. It made me interested in the miniseries, which I also really enjoy. I can understand why people aren't as receptive to this movie after cherishing the old miniseries for so long with all it's rich depth. Like I said, I'm only 25 and the miniseries is older than I am (I think... and it can show too). I'm not an intellectual, or an English Literature major, or a film critic... but I really liked this movie when I saw it.

just my own thoughts. thanks.

[–] lisaloveslinkinpark 15 years ago

I completely agree with you. Yes, the book and mini-series are close to flawless... but that does not mean that Brideshead the film can't be great in its own right. Of course the mini-series is going to better... they had 6x the amount of time that the film had. I think they did a great job of adapting it into a two hour script and I think some of the performances, mainly Ben Whishaw and Emma Thompson are fantastic! And the technical aspects like the art direction, costumes, production design, score and cinematography are just breathtaking.

I don't mind being the smartest man in the world. I just wish it wasn't this one.

[–] BlueRoses47 15 years ago

Thanks CallingKevin for your thoughts and opinions about the film and miniseries. I'm way, way older than you, and have always loved the BBC productions like this one over the years, but Brideshead is one that I haven't seen. This past year or two, through Netflix, I'm catching up with some of the ones I missed in the original airings years ago, so I was thinking of renting Bridehead soon....then I then heard it was being done in a film with Emma Thompson, who I like a lot.

I haven't read the book either, but usually like to read the original works of movies/series I like. That will come after I see one of these, the miniseries or the film.

I'm glad you enjoyed the film and series. I, too, love things that take place on English estates....especially in times past. So different from my life, and a great escape.

Thanks again for your views. It's always helpful to hear from others.

[–] maddie01 15 years ago

It's really funny, because I was also attracted to the movie by the beautiful landscapes and cinematography. I'm several years younger than you, CallingKevin, (btw lol) but I love an intriguing storyline as much as anybody and Brideshead seemed to have both a unique and an engaging one at that. I recently read the book and it is amazingly good if you don't mind the classic novel style and the sometimes difficult British slang (but there are places online where you can get info about that). So I definitely recommend you read the book. You'll get a whole new perspective, I promise...especially if you're one of those readers who likes to read between the lines because a lot of the content in the book (like the nature of Charles and Sebastian's relationship, for instance) is treated pretty ambiguously. But I guess that allows you to make your own conclusions, which is nice.

I also just bought the miniseries and am watching it for the first time. It really is flawless in my opinion, even though it does get a little less interesting when Julia takes centerstage. But that's to be expected since it happens about the same time that Sebastian exits Charles's life. And my absolute favorite part about the miniseries and the book is their relationship in general.

I still need to watch the 2008 film (I know! I should have by now, but unfortunately it wasn't playing within 45 minutes of me :( so it's great to hear that you liked it so much. Then again, having read the book and seen the miniseries first it's probable that I'll be biased. Can't wait to watch anyways!

Will Turner: You cheated!
Jack Sparrow: Pirate.

[–] judyswier 15 years ago

I just finished watching the 2008 film.

It doesn't deserve to have the same title as the novel. I expected the film to gloss over various plot points and to speed past others, after all, a two-hour film is far more limited than a 13 hour miniseries. It started off far better than I'd anticipated. Then Venice and the entire plot headed south. So Sebastian started drinking because Charles had the hots for Julia? Uhhhhhh, no.

The cinematography was lovely, as were the costumes. That's about all I can say about it. The plot was not the plot of the novel, no matter how you slice it.

[–] CallingKevin 15 years ago

The plot was not the plot of the novel, no matter how you slice it.

The original point I was making was that I went into the theater to see this movie without ever seeing the miniseries or reading the novel- or even hearing too much about the story line- and without any expectations the movie, plot, characters, etc., all really worked for me. When I came to this IMDB board I have read hundreds of posts saying the exact same thing you have- that the movie wasn't the miniseries and horrible... or that the movie wasn't the novel and was horrible. I posted saying I found the movie to be very moving regardless of all that. I find it a little bit ironic that after I explained how I thought perhaps some peolpe were unfairly criticizing and judging the movie since they are so used to the miniseries or books in my original post I found still another post who then compared the plot to the novel and the movie "heading south" because of it. No offense Judy, I just find it a bit funny. Thanks for your thoughts though, I can understand your point of view.

I remember in one of my Literature classes in college having to read Breakfast at Tiffany's and reading about Capote's ideas about that novella in class, only to later view the famous movie for the first time later and being sooo shocked at how completely different the plot and characters were! I was disappointed with the movie version having known the book so well. Of course, the movie is now a classic, but I wonder if IMDB existed back in 1961 I would find hundreds of posts ripping the movie apart because it wasn't like the novella.- just a thought.

[–] siobhan-rouse 15 years ago

This film has really bombed in Britain (supposedly its natural market). Few cinemas chose to show it, and those that did had it for around a fortnight.

[–] judyswier 15 years ago

No offense taken. I AM criticizing the film (unfairly or not) because it claims to be based upon the novel.

If it were an original screenplay it would not have been judged so harshly.

This is a beloved novel and an even more beloved miniseries (because it is sublime in its execution and impeccably loyal to the novel). I've loved both for 30 years and it's as much a part of me as my limbs. Of course I'm going to feel protective of its plot and integrity. What confuses me is how Evelyn Waugh's family wasn't as protective. Perhaps they needed the cash. The whole thing smacks of a sell-out.

The film may work as a film. I'll never know because I had a strong bias and a strong knowledge of the novel.... and the film totally missed the boat on even the most basic plot points. I cannot un-know what I know about Evelyn Waugh's work in order to give the film a fair shake as "merely a film".

[–] lisaloveslinkinpark 15 years ago

Here's my point of view on everything...

I first saw the 2008 Brideshead Revisited in theaters. I absolutely loved it. I was immediately engulfed in the story and was swept away by the impressive cinematography, score, costumes, direction, script and performances. After a summer of violent loud blockbusters, this was exactly what I needed... a beautiful, engrossing, intelligent and well-made film.

I loved the film SO much that I knew I had to read the book and watch the mini-series. I read the book... and noticed right away how different the book and the film were, not drastically different, there were just a lot more details and situations in the book that didn't take place in the film, as is every book-film adaptation. I love the book, it's one of my favorties now.

While I was reading the book, I rented the mini-series. What can I say? Just... wow. Beautiful. Flawless. Perfect. The performances blew me away and it was so faithful to the book I might as well have just seen the mini-series and claimed that I read the book. It was THAT faithful.

Now, once I've said all that, I still believe that Brideshead Revisited, the 2008 film, is a fantastic film. Yes, SOME plot points are different in the film, but I still think it keeps the integrity and feel of Brideshead Revisited. At its core, religion is the most important aspect of the story and I thought they kept that very well in the film.

Okay, everyone's BIGGEST problem: The love triangle between Sebastian, Charles and Julia. I have a few arguments.

IF you're going to make an adaptation of a work, WHY on earth would you make it EXACTLY the same as a beloved, flaweless mini-series? Julian Jarrold knew how perfect the mini-series was, so he probably read and loved the book, loved the mini-series and thought, "I love the story so much, why don't I adapt it? The subtle love triangle between the three main characters has always fascinated me, why don't I make it more obvious in the film? It has always been implied that Sebastian was gay... why don't I make it obvious in a way that the book and mini-series couldn't?"

Also, realistically, if you only have 2 hours to tell the story, you need to show the audience very quickly why Sebastian drinks and becomes more of a drunk as the story progresses. What's a quick way to get him to drink more in less than an hour? Why doesn't he see Charles and Julia kiss? Bingo. It works. I'm sure if they had 12 hours to film it, it would have been a slow process, like the book and mini-series, but they knew they had to compromise. The film would be terrible if the first hour was focused on Charles and Sebastian's relationship and then the second hour was focused on Charles and Julia's relationship. That works for a book and a mini-series, but not a film. So how do they fix that? They subtlely show Charles and Julia's relationship while Charles and Sebastian's relationship is still going on.

Yes, it's changing a flawless book, but for a film, things need to be changed.

They all read the book... Matthew Goode, Ben Whishaw, Hayley Atwell... they all know and have spoken about how different some plot points in the film are compared to the book. But they know that the film has to be slightly different. It's not like everyone involved were ignorant and blind to how perfect the book/mini-series are and they just thought, "Hey, let's make this for the hell of it to piss people off." No, they did it because they all loved the story and as long as the spirit of Brideshead remained the same, they were fine with it.

They only had a $20 million budget and what they did with that is just extraordinary. It looks as if they had $100 million dollars! Everyone in the cast/crew just seemed to be dedicated and they worked really hard. Whishaw, Atwell and Thompson went to church together to get into character... Goode read books on atheism.

In short, it could've been a worse adaptation. Changing some plot points should not discredit all of the other fantastic aspects of that film, and trust me, there are a lot.

I don't mind being the smartest man in the world. I just wish it wasn't this one.

[–] HettyW 15 years ago

I'm astonished that anyone would think that the novel and TV series merely implied that Sebastian was gay. There is never the slightest doubt about that or about the fact that Charles and Sebastian are sexually involved. Charles comments on their relationship in his narration: "Its naughtiness was high in the catalogue of grave sins." For 1945 this was a very clear, if subtle, reference to sex.

The trouble with having Charles and Sebastian's relationship end when Charles falls in love with Julia is that it suggests that Sebastian's alcoholism is a product of his being jilted by Charles. This totally undermines one of the main themes of the novel. The reason for Sebastian's alcoholism is his inability to reconcile his homosexual nature with his strict Catholic upbringing. He is being torn apart by guilt. In the preface to the novel Evelyn Waugh states that its theme is: "the operation of divine grace on a group of diverse but closely connected characters". Waugh himself was a Catholic convert. All of the main characters are struggling with their faith in one way or another. The irreligious Lord Marchmain embraces the faith on his death bed. Charles himself has converted by the end of the novel.

This is the theme of the novel, not some ludicrous menage a trois between Charles, Sebastian and Julia. In the film Lady Marchmain is transfigured from a devout matriarch fretting over the souls of her family into an unsympathetic monster, apparently tormenting Sebastian in his bedroom. Far from being a film about the "operation of divine grace" it becomes an anti-Catholic tract. Now I have no objection to this in itself but it has nothing to do with the novel.

Finally, given that the young man who began this thread is gay, its treatment of the undoubtedly gay relationship between Sebastian and Charles is utterly retrograde. What Evelyn Waugh was describing in his novel was a loving sexual relationship between two men, a relationship without any ulterior motives. What seems to be depicted in the film is the unrequited love of Sebastian for a Charles Ryder on the make. In the film Charles seems to be more fascinated by the glamour of Brideshead than he is with Sebastian. There are a number of scenes that work quite well: the wine drinking scene at Brideshead and the bathing scene in Venice among them, but these are very quickly undermined when Charles starts pursuing Julia.

[–] siobhan-rouse 15 years ago

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I think you are mistaken in trying fit this story into 21st Century gay culture.

The first third of the story is about Evelyn Waugh's own memories of his student days (and his intense friendships with a number of young men). While Waugh never regretted these relationships, he did grow out of them, and went on to marry twice (to women !). One theme of the novel is that homosexual relationships are just a phase that some people pass through. As the character Cara says, these can be "charming - so long as they don't go on too long".

[–] HettyW 15 years ago

Cara is under the misapprehension that Sebastian and Charles are involved in a platonic romantic friendship and tries to warn Charles that "poor" Sebastian's feelings for him may be of a more intense character than he imagines. Lord Marchmain is more clear-eyed. When later in the novel he learns that Charles and Julia are a couple, he comments: "He seems to have a penchant for my children."

[–] snu_grad 15 years ago

I agree, judyswier. That's why I hesitated to see this in the first place. I finally watched it last night and enjoyed it some, but I also thought it barely scraped the surface. It moved too quickly and in a strange direction.

I suppose it's not fair to compare a movie to a mini-series, but everyone who watched the film should also see the mini (you can get it at Netflix) and immerse themselves in its slow, leisurely beauty - not to mention, Jeremy Irons' wonderful narration.

[–] CallingKevin 15 years ago

I just saw a completely different movie: "The Other Boleyn Girl" - about Henry VIII and Ann Boleyn (and her sister Mary). I have taken several British history courses in University and have already known the story very well. I also really fell in love with the Showtime series "The Tudors"- which does a great job at exploring the story (though it isn't exactly accurate all the time).

When I saw "The Other Boleyn Girl"- I kept thinking: "This really is disappointing!" "Why did they cast that particular person?" "They are telling the story way too quick!" "They left out a great bit of the story here!" et cetera.

Afterward, I turned to my partner and asked what he thought of it. His reply was: "I thought it was great! It was interesting, it really told the story well, it was fast paced, the acting was great, the music, the costumes, everything about it- the drama! It was great!" I couldn't believe he said that! I thought it 'barely scraped the surface' to use a phrase borrowed from another poster. I thought it "moved too quick- and took strange directions" with the story of Henry VIII. Major characters (like Wolsey or Cromwell) were barely even mentioned!

I debated with my partner a bit, and he didn't mind the artistic liberties taken. He actually prefered the fast paced, quick way they told the story to heighten the drama and emotion. He prefered the minor characters and subplots being cut out for the sake of the film.

It wasn't until that night when I figured out why many on here are so disappointed with the 2008 movie "Brideshead Revisited." It is similiar in many many ways. Those who are soo used to the miniseries or read the novel simply can't see the movie being an accurate reproduction of Brideshead. It reminded me of what the screenwriter, Peter Morgan said of his screenplay for "The Other Boleyn Girl"- [paraphrasing] "Those close to the story might only want to see the differences not the similiarities." This can be true for the Brideshead movie version as well.

My partner and I watched the entire miniseries months after falling in love with the movie. I liked both versions equally well. My partner, on the other hand, simply hated the miniseries. Another poster called Sebastian in the miniseries "Adorable and interesting"- where my partner felt the miniseries version of Sebastian paled in comparison to Ben Whishaw's performance. (I agree with him on this point- sorry.) My partner thought the miniseries was dull... too slow... too boring... way too old fashioned. and "mediocre by comparision to the movie!"

I guess "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

[–] Beaubelle 15 years ago

I'm with you, Kevin. I was a bit shocked when I read the book: I'm Catholic, and when I converted, I heard more than one person say that this book was influential in strengthening their faith. Well, good luck to them, but had I read this book first, I might have had a second or third thought about my decision to convert (lol)!!!!!!* I lost patience with the mini-series (but I intend to tackle it again someday!), so I was glum when this movie showed up from my Netflix queue. But I loved it!!!!!! They really did well at hitting the high points, and frankly, the film did much more justice to the depth of feelings between Sebastian and Charles. Charles's love for Julia is secondary to the love for Sebastian in the book; it comes much later, and to me, Julia seems almost like a substitute for her brother.

My criticism of the movie is the rigmarole about Charles's desire for the house. In the book, Charles paints Brideshead during every visit at Lady Marchmain's behest but has no passionate attachment to the place as a place. However, I do think the house thing is an economical way of hinting at his lust for the life that the Flyte family leads, their position in the community, and yes, even perhaps their unassailable faith.

*Follow-up: However, like Gary Cooper, I have to say it was the best decision I've ever made!

[–] joyfarrah 14 years ago

My criticism of the movie is the rigmarole about Charles's desire for the house. In the book, Charles paints Brideshead during every visit at Lady Marchmain's behest but has no passionate attachment to the place as a place. However, I do think the house thing is an economical way of hinting at his lust for the life that the Flyte family leads, their position in the community, and yes, even perhaps their unassailable faith.

----

There is IMO an element of "wanting the house", in Charles and in his realationship with Julia... but he feels a bit guilty about as an outsider coveting the property.... as if he is cheating Bridey... which he is. It is not a major element in his relationship with Julia, but it is there and it is a rather unpleasant bit of him.... Julia appeases his guilt by saying that Briedey woudl be happier in a small house... that he has no great love for the place... and she may be right... but she's also unpleasant in her greed for the house.....

However I think it is significant that teh novel ends with Charles NOT getting Brideshead. It is left ot Julia, over Bridey's head, but Charles can't marry her... so the only way he can be at brideshead again is as a soldier..

[–] rlsmcrain 15 years ago

I agree with you, CallingKevin, that this movie stands on it's own. I read the book many moons ago (and am very fond of it) and also saw the mini-series. I wondered whether or not I would like the movie, but I found that I did. I really liked the portrayals of Julia and Sebastian.

[–] CallingKevin 15 years ago

I just finished the entire miniseries. When I started this particular thread, I was only half way through the miniseries, but now I'm done watching. I really loved it! I was totally caught up in the miniseries once I got used to it. Now that it's over, I feel a bit sad that I don't have a new episode to look forward to.

I then bought the movie version to compare- and I have to be honest: I still love the movie version. If hard pressed, I wouldn't be able to choose which I preferred. I liked both equally well.

I guess I might feel different had I first seen the miniseries when it first aired in the 1980's- or had I read and fell in love with the book first. Perhaps I'm not the type of person that would be seriously offended at the few changes in the movie version. Or, perhaps I can understand a bit as to why the screenplay was changed and modified from the original and makes it a bit less offensible to me. In any case, I still very much loved the movie version as well.