MovieChat Forums > Brideshead Revisited (2008) Discussion > Question for those who have read the boo...

Question for those who have read the book


I do love this book, but one thing I have always been unclear on is where and why Charles converts? I'm pretty sure at the end when he says something like, "a newly learned prayer" and when he goes into the chapel, that he is a converted Catholic, but where in all his fervent denial did he begin to believe in God? Was it when Lord Marchmain crossed himself on his deathbed or were there subtle hints before that?

I remember two things very clearly: I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior.

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He doesn't convert and I've read the book twice or not that I interpret anyhow. You might say he tolerates the catholicism thing but he most certainly does not as far as I read it.

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Never mind. I've got my answer, but I'm pretty sure that he does convert. He doesn't "tolerate the Catholicism thing" because if that were the case he wouldn't go in the chapel to begin with. This is one of my favorite novelse and although it's subtle, it's pretty clear at the end that Charles has converted to Catholicism.

I remember two things very clearly: I am a great sinner and Christ is a great Savior.

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I think when we look at the life Ryder as he lived it in the novel he always seemed to have had a deep well of aching emptiness. I'd think he was on quest he probably wasn't even conscious of but only getting hints very now and then that exposed that raw nerve to consciousness. Wine, women, big houses, nice furniture, money, art and good food could really do it for some people but apparently not for Ryder. (Things we'd like to see: Ryder smiling..;-)..) There are some things of this world or perhaps another that satisfy more than ravishing Bordeauxs. Waugh I think got that right.

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.... it is in the book, and in the mini series, but not in this dumb movie.

Recalling the visit to Venice, from 1944, Charles says something like, I have come to accept claims which in 1923 I never gave much thought to. He recalls that there must have been something similar in his mother- something that made her volunteer to be a nurse in WWI, and ultimately give her life, nursing soldiers in Bosnia.

There is so much more to this story than this idiotic movie portrays.







"I saved Latin. What did you ever do?"

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Charles doesn't convert to Catholicism. That must be an over-interpretation of the novel.

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I think the comment above can be classified as "invincible ignorance".

The person does not want to believe a thing, perhaps has an emotional attachment to not believing, and therefore, in spite of incontrovertible evidence that Charles converts, persists in her ignorance.

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Please provide us all with the chapter where Charles converts.

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This is by Evelyn Waugh in a memo about his novel BR being made into a film: "The Flyte family is seen through the eyes of Charles Ryder, an atheist, to whom at first their religion is incomprehensible and quite unimportant. It is only bit by bit throughout the action that he realises how closely they are held by it, and the book ends with Charles himself becoming a Catholic."

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But it is still not in his book.

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Elisabet, I've read the book twice -- just finished it last week -- and like you I didn't see the clues to Charles' conversion to Catholicism (like Waugh's). Because I'm leading a discussion on this book next month, I've been reading sites online and over and over again critics have talked about his conversion. What? But the novel CAN be read that way, that Charles was caught and tugged by the twitch on the thread.

This is from one of the online sites:

Surprise! Charles is now a Catholic. Did you notice? If not, don’t worry, because we only get two small clues that Charles has converted by the time he’s in the army in the 1940s. The first hint actually comes in the prologue, when an army man named Hooper tells Charles of their new lodgings at Brideshead: "There's a sort of R.C. church attached. I looked in and there was a kind of service going on – just a padre and one old man. I felt very awkward. More in your line than mine." "R.C." means "Roman Catholic," and Hooper’s comment that it’s "more in [Charles’s] line than [his]" is the clue we’re talking about. (We know, it’s subtle, but it’s there.)

The second comes in the epilogue, and is part of this big ending we’re trying to talk about here. Charles enters the chapel and "sa[ys] a prayer, an ancient, newly learned form of words." The "newly learned" bit is our second clue and confirms that Charles has in fact recently converted. This is the twitch upon the thread we’ve been waiting for. We know that Charles was raised in religion ("I was taken to church weekly as a child" he earlier confessed), so his newfound Catholicism is actually a return to God.

Despite appearances, this conversion doesn’t come out of the clear blue sky. It has its roots in Lord Marchmain’s death scene, when Charles watches the old man and "suddenly [feels] the longing for a sign, if only of courtesy, if only for the sake of the woman [he] love[s], who [kneels] […] praying […] for a sign." To Charles, "it seem[s] so small a thing that was asked, the bare acknowledgment of a present, a nod in the crowd." This is where Charles first drops his anti-religion stance and begins to suspect the presence of a God.

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Interesting texts from the other site -- thank you!

Naturally I saw those "clues" as well. But the first one I interpreted as Charles being seen as an intellectual, interested in spiritual questions by his army colleagues. And for the second one, you CAN say a prayer being Protestant, or Muslim, or Buddhist or whatever, can you not?

I think this discussion is based in what you WANT to read into a text, and then the various interpretations follow. So I don't think it's meaningful to try to convince everybody that a conversion has taken place.

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I'm an ex-Catholic; so I saw the role of religion as how it seemed to oppress each of the main characters. Then I read the comments from Catholic writers. It'll be interesting to see how our book group interprets it.

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Yes, that is how I interpret the book as well, without being an ex-Catholic.

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