I have a few honest questions:
What makes you want to watch them?
Do you watch them alone or with company?
Do you feel guilty for watching them?
I've only ever seen one and even though you can argue that its not real I still felt ashamed that i chose to watch the movie as my company watched in disgust. I also felt like I shouldnt be watching this movie and I also felt like the cops were gonna bust the door down any minute knowing that I was watching it.
[deleted]
Didnt say that I dont like them - just curious about the reasons why people watch them and what they take away from them
share[deleted]
I agree there is a certain trigger that tells you to watch it just to see what the hype is all about, the same part of your brain that tells you to smell the expired bottle of milk in your fridge even though its rancid.
For me theres a certain line of realism in these movies that can take the most die hard horror fans out of their comfort zones. Films such as this one can play on you a bit and for me personally the reverse psychology sets in and I begin to ask myself if we're just led to believe its not real.
I know theres never really been any proof that snuff films exist, but the most shocking thing i've ever seen was footage that we had to watch in media/film studies in school. From memory the video was called "what the news leaves out" or something to that effect and it featured scenes of linch mobs of kids in africa murdering another kid who'd supposedly been possessed. I guess because its news footage its not considered snuff. Needless to say it still affects me some 8 years later.
[deleted]
It is an interesting subject, my belief is that they do exist in some form, yes there is a fine line between the definition of what makes a snuff film a snuff film. Im sure there is a market for it, theres alot of things on film that I dont understand that people get into, certain things that go hand in hand with some sub genres of the porn industry that I cant even imagine how anyone could be "into" it. But everyone has different tastes and different interest and im sure there are plenty of people out there that would take satisfaction in seeing real murders taken place on camera.
share[deleted]
[deleted]
I agree - so where do you think the line should be drawn. Does it end with hollywood horror, or movies that perhaps are fiction but done in the documentary format and pretending to be real life?
share[deleted]
Well said - and you're right you can never underestimate the temptation to be shocked. As you touched on before in regards to the the roman era and gladiatorial fighting to the death - Im sure we all have the curiosity in us, In a sence it can sometimes make ourselves feel safe knowing that "its happening to them and not us". And when you think about it the misfortune of others sparks alot of interest - Reality tv, true crime stories, jackass etc etc rate quite well. The latter inspiring alot of copycats. Which brings me to my next question: Do maniacs create tv/movies or do tv/movies create maniacs?
share[deleted]
I believe that there are copycats out there, to a certain degree - But in terms of people copying murders on film, generally the film is already part based on fact so you could always argue that the murder was inspired by the original inspiration for the film. Its a "who came first, the chicken or the egg situation"
But certain boundaries would obviously break the cycle with most people. Most of us know the difference between right and wrong, and most of us have the "off" switch and think before we act.
It grinds me when music, movies and games are blamed by the media for certain crimes.
[deleted]
Where does all end? - The same place it started!!! Nothing in August Underground is really that different to all extreme horror. The realism portrayed has been matched in films like Don't Answer The Phone, Don't Go in the House etc way before this was made. I don't see August Underground as a natural progression of violence that is then going to lead to real death/actual murder-porn, it's juts another angle on the same thing the Italians we're doing in the 70's with Giallo films and then periodically by various film makers. If you watch Last House on the Left nowadays it seems a little tame, but at the time it had the same effect of feeling like a snuff movie.
The issue with snuff existing for real is basically dependant on your definition of it. The true definition of snuff would be a group of people hunting down a victim and murdering them on camera with the sole purpose of financial gain. A murder to order if you like. This to my mind excludes all real death footage and things like serial killers who have filmed the exploits for their own gratfication. To date, there are no known incidents of filmed murder for this purpose.
Which ever way you look at it, I thought the film was ok and I watch this stuff for the same reason I watch Iron Man...entertainment.
the line is crossed when actual actors die
until then, people that can't decipher real from fake should stick to their spoon-fed tripe
My definition here:
Snuff as far as I can ascertain is the actual setting up and filming of a murder with the sole intention of copying and distributing for profit to a target audience.
What you spoke of is not 'Snuff' by definition, the African torture you spoke of is close but still not the 'Real McCoy' as it were - They are unfortunate acts of violence caught on camera, it's not nice stuff, but it's not snuff.
I picked by bum . . . Now my finger smells.
If you go on the 8 mm/Hardcore boards, there are extensive definitions about what does and doesn't constitute snuff.
But to go with the classical definition (the one used by the publisher of Screw magazine who offered $1,000,000 for the delievery of any commercial snuff film), it has to be a film where the actor/actress is killed onscreen for sexual arousal, and is sold for a profit.
Without the sexual connotation, nothing is snuff. Death without sex = Faces of Death
Snuff is also made with the intent of being distributed
shareCorpus_Vile, you don't have to appologise for your answer being long. You gave a very interesting and readable report. I was very attracted to this thread because I've been asking those questions to myself and to others many times. In my particular case, I'm a loving, sensitive and caring person who loathes violence and cruelty. But in some dark corner of myself I'm curious about it, so I want to see these kind of films. I never actually see them in the end because I read the spoilers first and then get bored and turn them off -so silly of me. But the true reason I read the spoilers first is to be ready to what's going to happen so it doesn't affect me big time. It DOES affect me though, but still, I keep on watching. I think all people in the world, no matter how good we are, have a morbid, sadistic mind which temporarily governs us when we see these kind of films. And some of us are ashamed and feel guilty, but of course those are hypocritical feelings since somehow we still enjoy watching.
I hope I was clear, since English is not my native language I'm not so sure.
[deleted]
I only watch these movies for the extreme effects. See what its all about. Nothing really bothers me because i know that its only a movie. When they actually can make a movie that looks REAL, then probably i will be effected by it.
I also watch these type of movies because i want to see the most disturbing ones.
http://www.twitter.com/lagcatsBRO <- follow for movie discussions, I'm the infamous lagcats, AMA.
samandjo1 - I think I LOVE you, your response was was one the best things I've read on IMDB for a long time, great analogy!
I agree there is a certain trigger that tells you to watch it just to see what the hype is all about, the same part of your brain that tells you to smell the expired bottle of milk in your fridge even though its rancid.
Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.
you have milk in bottles?
put away them fiery biscuits.
There is a website called ync chanel on the net. It has genuine videos of horrible deaths by accldent murder,suicide and execution. When I first seen this site it disturbed me but 5 years later I feel fine and view this site as nothing bad about it. The site has been running for years and I am suprised it never got shut down.
shareCuriosity makes me watch,and I watch alone as I dont really know anyone who I could watch this type of film with.
I dont feel guilty...its not real,its a film,though I did feel a bit liked I needed a shower afterwards,lol.x
What makes you want to watch them?
++ I like movies that leave me feeling scuzzy afterwards, also, the top notch special FX.
Do you watch them alone or with company?
++ I show the AU movies to anyone who thinks they are ballsy enough to watch them after my warning. Mostly they've gotten great responses.
Do you feel guilty for watching them?
++ No, because I wouldn't ever do any of the things depicted.
Someone is in danger of falling off that high horse.
shareI FEEL INCREDIBLY AWESOME AND MAGNIFICIENT FOR WATCHING THESE FILMS! Gives me a lot of street cred.
"I might as well be blind!"
Morbid curiousity makes me want to watch them. The idea of viewing a realistic depiction of something I will most likely (hopefully) never see in real life is just fascinating.
I tend to watch these movies with my wife. We get bored with Hollywood horror, so these movies are great for making us squirm.
I never feel guilty for watching these. Even as disturbing as they are, they're actually quite brilliant in the execution. Making things look this real is not easy. It takes a great deal of work to make something look this easy.
What makes you want to watch them?
I watch them because I like to watch a wide variety of movies. I hate mainstream movies, so I go off and watch a bunch of random movies like this. I like to be able to see all different kinds of ideas people get and how they show it to us in film.
Do you watch them alone or with company?
I watch them alone, because I watch all the movies I watch alone (sounds kinda creepy). My mum thinks they're 'sick', my brother is... a noob. My dad watches them, but I stay with my mum. I just like being alone.. in the dark.. watching people die (lol).
Do you feel guilty for watching them?
Err, no? Why would I feel guilty? It's just a movie. Someone telling a story.
Mr Flibble's very cross.
Did you mean "It takes a great deal of work to make something look this REALISTIC?".....sorry rwburnham, I'm just being a bit anal! :o)
David
Personally I am a fan of the Toe Tag crew. They successfully did what they meant to do with the August Underground trilogy: Shock, disgust, and degrade. The FX in these films are INCREDIBLY realistic. The plot...Well, lacking but actually quite funny if you open your mind to "Morbid humor". It's all about how you go into viewing these films. You ever hear the saying, "Don't take things too seriously, or you'll never get out alive", well it's true in many cases. I'm sort of fascinated by morbid things and I have a bit of an obsession with death in general, doesn't mean I'm going to go out and shoot up a supermarket or rape prostitutes, I like to think that I'm actually a pretty nice person. I've only seen each of these films once because unfortunutely they're banned in Canada which makes it difficult for me to get my hands on my own copies of them. I watched them with my boyfriend as he is also a big fan of morbid things...And no, I never once felt guilty for watching them. It's all in good fun! :-)
share"What makes you want to watch them?
I like to be shocked and watch movies that manage to bring up strong emotions(positive or negative both are good).
"Do you watch them alone or with company?"
Usually alone. I watched Ichi The Killer with a friend though and she thought it was just as hilarious as I thought it was.
"Do you feel guilty for watching them?
No why would I? It's just a movie.
Did you ever notice that people who believe in creationism look really un-evolved? - Bill Hicks
Interesting Post.The reason I'm reading this thread is because a co-worker and I were discussing our favorite horror films.
I was discussing Argento and Fulci and some of the extreme Italian films (Cannibal,et al).I brought up Toe Tag's films and mentioned that I had not yet gotten up the nerve to check them out.
I love horror....love horror....love horror.I'm still searching my inner soul to see if I'm ready for the August Underground trilogy.
I have seen "Scrapbook".I don't know how that film would compare to Toe Tag's films.
Of what I've seen recently,I must say that "Inside" knocked my socks off.I also enjoyed "Frontiers" "Eden Lake" "Dying Breed"
For those of you who know and love Vogel and Toe Tag do you think I'm ready to rock and roll with "AU"??!!
Basking in the sunshine of this bygone afternoon
Scrapbook wasn't as extreme as, say, August Underground: Mordum. It's pretty similar to good ol' August Underground in subject matter if I recall correctly. Even if you aren't "ready" for August Underground you should check them out. The more sensitive to extreme films you are, the better it works.
shareAs far as to my knowledge YES SNUFF the TRUE definition of SNUFF DOES infact exist; now i have not seen this film with my own eyes but i DID watch SNUFF: A DOCUMENTARY OF KILLING ON CAMERA (any horror film of these types of films or interested in the existence of snuff NEEDS to check this doco out!)
& In this doco there were 2 instances of TRUE stories told to the viewer about 1. 3 Russian guys who set up a website of people purchasing videos of not just REAL SNUFF but of ... how do i put this I'll do it bluntly: EXTREME sexual abuse to underage and INFANT rape (S&M) to the point of DEATH! (these 3 Russian *beep* heads had a sting performed by the British intelligence agency M5 or m15 or something like that also i believe there were 2 or 3 Americans also involved.
The Second story was told (by the producer i think it was of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre) and in it he was met by these 3 Philippine "gentlemen" whom said they had a tape he wished to view to him for distribution which depicted (what he thought to be an extreme BSDM type pornographic film where a guy was *beep* this girl doggy style and then took out i think it was a plastic bag to my recollection she then was finding it hard to breath and the guy pulled her neck up and then the camera zoomed into this EXTREMELY TIGHT shot of her neck and this guy then proceeded to pull out a knife and stick this girl in the jugular and pulled it across! Now bare in mind this film was apparently shot in the SEVENTIES!! so has the guy did state it would be PRETTY hard to pull of that kind of quality of hardcore special effects in that era ALSO there were no cutting of frames or camera movements he stated (as most films do in kill scenes).
Now after hearing this guy get almost physically sick recalling these acts and feel emotionally drained to the point of sadness and disgust YOU view his statements and tell me you don't believe in snuff!
As my final words the TRULY SICKEST most disturbing "video" i have watched that effected me the most would have to be hands down the SEVERAL decapitations of the US soldiers filmed in a montage style because it was REAL that DID make me feel uncomfortable and this is a person who loves faces of death, traces of death and i also hop on sites such as BESTGORE.com and ROTTEN.com
If I HAD to pick the most disturbing cinematic film it would go to: THE HUMAN CENTIPEDE watched it yesterday whew! harsh stuff as Robert Ebert stated: this film transcends BEYOND horror into a tragedy.
I have yet to see August Underground buy have heard about it; if i can get my hands on it i definitely will give it a viewing!
*BUMP*
shareNO, I didn't believe him at all. The Russian case that you are talking about involved an offer to make a snuff film, but to my knowledge the only actual footage collected was chilp porn (not that child porn isn't more than despicable enough). His story makes no sense. He didn't go to the authorities. He never discussed this experience with anyone. These philipino guys were somehow involved in stuff like this, but when he passed and indicated his revulsion they just let him walk out of the room. Meanwhile, despite the fact that these supposed philipino gentlemen were so careless, they never got caught, and there is no independent corroboration for this story.
What did I think when I saw him? I thought he was a guy that was named as a producer on a pretty piss poor and badly made documentary who decided to tell a couple of tall tales in the hope of boosting sales of his half assed movie.