Did anyone else get the impression that the film concludes that there is no God, or at least if there is, we can't depend on him? I felt like the end showed that no matter how strong your faith is, it will not save you from the world.
"But why is the rum gone?"
Hallo,
no - I think that's not the right conclusion. Though God is present, sometimes in life he is just silent - for different reasons. On the one hand he gave men a free will and on the other hand perhaps he wants to say with that: "Just follow your own conscience! I gave you a conscience to decide about good and evil..."
But in one case you are right: During the Nazi era many Christians have been broken by this long silence of God. Must have been a hard time, especially when your own chuch was playing "Judas"...
Greetings
Alex
No, the impression that I had was just the opposite - it was the sadistic Dachau commandant who insisted there was no God. The movie strongly recommends "faith" to deal with the vagaries of the world - I did not read that specifically as "Christian faith" but what I would call the "unerring voice of conscience".
shareInasmuch as there's a very high probability that a personal god as described by the Bible, the Qu'ran or the Tora does not exist one might consider this movie one more example that man is man's devil. It's his decision how he treats his fellow human beings and nature as a whole. Faith (in the monotheistic sense of the abrahamic religions) certainly is no guarantee for humane behaviour in any respect as history amply shows.
Of course this biografically colored movie touches on the darker sides of institutional religion (the Vatican's policy towards nazi germany) but even more that faith CAN be a support for a humanitarian frame of mind, even in its fallability.
And besides, in this movie, one senses the intervowen nature of faith and dogma, conviction and ideology, elements at the heart of all extremist thinking that so harshly shape all aspects of history on par only with economic issues.
So, I'm convinced that a critical mind combined with ethical behaviour which in its simplest form boils down to "Don't do to others what you don't want to be done to you." is the better chance to take mankind towards a peaceful and bright future than any belief that requires the suspension of the critical mind and lays some kind of morality into the hands of an elusive or - to take up the title of this thread - ABSENT god.
Whatever your conviction: Peace to you all and conflicts by words only.
To engage the subject of any type of faith in reference to the Nazi era most definitely brings up the issue of the existence of God; however, I feel the focus of the film is not on whether or not a god exists, but rather, how much personal integrity is worth and how far the Nazis were willing to go to create choiceless choices. For Kremer to capitulate would mean sacrificing his beliefs. I never get the sense that this is a viable option for Kremer. The fact is, he is presented with only a few options, all of them have dire consequences (whether those be for himself, his family and friends, or his fellow priests). I think it is important to realize that, regardless of the existence of a god, all people are capable of dehumanizing others to such a disgusting point that we always need to be vigilent for similar instances.
shareI agree with the "absence of god" sentiment, but for different reasons. A priest does not do god's work by serving humanity and save hundreds of thousands of lives. Instead, he chooses to protect the pride of his church and the pope, which are false idols. This priest chose his faith in an earthy organization. It's unfortunate that he was one of the survivors after having the opportunity to save so many but selfishly deciding to follow the dictates of the catholic cult. In a way, he was no better than the nazis who committed the insane acts at the concentration pits (there was nothing "camp" about these places). At the end of the movie it tells how many clerics died in the pits, that number could have been saved by the church, but they decided to turn a blind eye to protect themselves. God was never a presence at all in this story. It was a battle between catholic leaders and Hitler. Unfortunately, either choice that was made was a losing one.
shareI just saw this film today and I totally disagree. As a practicing Catholic who has studied my faith and my Church's history, this film really demonstrated to me the existence of evil (and of the Evil One, subsequently). For Kremer to have acquiesed to the Nazi demands means falling into temptation by openly supporting a demonic and despotic regime, thus betraying his conscience and putting the salvation of his immortal soul in danger. Remember how they were talking about Judas?
Judas--like many of his contemporaries--was expecting a temporal Messiah who would drive the Romans out of Israel and proclaim himself king. But instead Jesus said that his kingdom was "not of this world." He was talking about eternity. For that He died and rose again.
For Kremer to agree to the Nazis would be to put his faith on the temporal order of this world rather than on the eternal one. After all, the number one purpose of the Catholic Church is not so much saving people's lives (all of us are going to die someday), but rather the salvation of people's immortal souls.
I agree, rj.
I'm sorry Chaplin, and OP, but this is a very Catholic movie, whatever Schlondorff's beliefs are, and God is very much present.
I just saw a great interview with Martin Scorsese, probably the greatest Catholic film maker, and he said something so profound, so wonderfully non-chalant, "We're put in this world to suffer."
The interviewer: "Do you really believe that?"
Scorsese: "Oh yeah. When you learn to accept that, actually, it makes everything a lot easier."
rj is correct in saying that the immortal soul is put before the physical pain of the body. If Kremer were to succumb to the Nazis, and allow them to be in charge of the Church of Germany, the pride of the Church would indeed be damaged, to the point of no turning back. After the Nazis lose the war, the Church would also lose the war, and would no longer have any authority as a spiritual guide. It probably would have fallen apart. The price of the fallen Church would be greater than the price of physical pain and death. As mentioned in the movie, the Pope himself almost destroyed the Church in his slight alliance with Hitler.
Whether you believe that or not, it's the Catholic mentality, and if you're Catholic, it's a group effort- it's your responsibility to accept martyrdom, for the sake of the morality of humanity, as the ultimate role in life. It's similar to why you're not supposed to negotiate with terrorists. You have to succeed on your own terms, or else you'll be struggling for tiny victories here and there, as opposed to a real control.
In the end, Kremer truly took the role of Judas, as opposed to Gebhart's perverse interpretation of the role- he accepted the guilt of the death of his fellow priests for a larger spiritual plan.
It's a warrior mentality, really. The Catholics are spiritual warriors from the day they're baptized. And the war takes a lot of soldiers. But war is necessary and everyone has to pick a side, and be loyal to it to the best of their ability.
Also, I think that the very ending implies a sense of hope, and redemption, when he sacrifices his food and shares it with his inmates.
share