I never said I wanted to influence people's right to have freedom of choice. What exactly do you mean by that? Is it a bad thing to try and change people's opinions on something I consider oppressive? The argument here is not really with this film but using this film as an example of socially conditioned attitudes. I am just trying to get people to question what the media feeds them because I believe that fear and capitalist consumption go hand in hand. It is in the interest of the media to keep people unhappy. If people wanted for nothing, no-one would buy gendered magazines, trendy trainers, cheese strings, the latest mobiles, etc. But is belief a choice? Do I not believe in God out of choice? If I chose to become a Christian, would I suddenly believe in God? You say freedom of choice — but are we really free to choose when social conditioning is so powerful? If you believe that we all wanted an Ipod before anyone knew what they were, is that your choice or what capitalism makes us believe?
Jamie is absolutely not in the minority. I felt the nudity was completely gratuitous and sexist. Politically, I'm as liberal as they come, so it's definitely not a case of me being puritanical in any way. The nudity was simply not tasteful.
Keep deluding yourself. I've read your posts/retorts and they lack any semblance of intelligence. I'm sure your normal reading material is something like "Maxim", so you would consider the nudes in this film "artistic"...
Come on now you two... no need to get into childish slagging matches. Being aggressive never won over anybody's opinion. We shouldn't demonise people for being sucked in by the patriarchal media. Patriarchy is a central to capitalism so it's not surprising that so many people see nothing wrong with this film.
True. Unfortunately, society seems to saddle women with this sort of garbage. I came across an interesting quote...
"part of the job of being a female is to put on shows of wantonness . . . even if it has nothing to do with what you want," Levy said in an interview. "Young women are trying to look and behave like those images, as if they were porn stars. As if being able to incite lust is women's work. That's just your first job, inciting lust."
He saw the female body as a beautiful thing. In the supermarket, he wasn't stripping them and drawing them for his own sexual pleasure; he wanted to draw and show them as a piece of art. He didn't say himself that he was unsure if it was right or wrong. If he had started raping them, then yes it would have been distasteful and sexist, but he didn't. Quite the opposite.
Do you find naked pictures of women drawn by men; for instance pictures by Titian, in art galleries sexist? Is it that he only drew Women, not men?
Theres a bit of a difference between Italian Renaissance paintings and sketches of women who look like they've stepped off the cover of FHM. Also I don't believe Titian pulled up women's tops and skirts without their consent while they were unaware and unable to move.
Monkey-blah is spot on re: Titian; Lol-ee-ta is, er, naive. In the meantime, it speaks volumes, jamie, that your 'critique' of capitalism is the now familiar variation on 'anti-capitalism' that would have Marx turning in his grave. Thanks for reducing us all to automatons, to mere conduits of consumerism, whose minds are wholly manipulated by 'the meeja', except for the chosen few like yourself, naturally. (And though a film featuring naked women in a supermarket was guaranteed to upset your delicate sensibilities, it does give you plenty of scope to judge the film morally instead of aesthetically.) Your prejudices are nevertheless still old enough to have been demolished by the great Marxist George Lukács in the 1930s, who understood that capitalism is not a conspiracy but a system built on the exchange value of our labour power, and that its ruling ideas do not come ready-made as an ideology with which to cosh our sensibilities, but are rather the ad hoc product of contradictory social relations (whose progressive dynamism Marx sought to liberate from its reactionary limits). Your barely concealed contempt for the 'sexist' masses is only a reflection of your own ennui and alienation from your fellow citizens, at a time when the capitalist elite's own profound self-doubt (in the absence of the class struggle that once gave it coherence) has been generalised throughout society as a culture of fear and doom-mongering about our possible futures.
Or, to put it another way, stop whining and read this:
As James Heartfield reminds us, in contrast to today’s 'anti-capitalists' Marx thought that the emerging consumerism was capitalism’s redeeming feature:
"He searches for means to spur them on to consumption, to give his wares new charms, to inspire them with new needs by constant chatter etc. It is precisely this side of the relation of capital and labour which is an essential civilising moment, and on which the historic justification, but also the contemporary power of capital rests."
(Marx, Grundrisse)
In the spirit of Marx I say, Three cheers for supermarkets! As for the film, how dare a film that touches on the artist's idealisation of female beauty feature gorgeous women with no clothes on!!! etc. What utter twaddle - it's not even remotely sexist, but is instead a compelling, beautiful and strangely moving narrative.
The lion and the calf shall lie down together, but the calf won't get much sleep.
Good posts. People who combine all these various ideas into a big conspiracy theory (which would be so incredibly difficult to maintain it's not funny) should also read the Rebel Sell, the best non-fiction book I have ever encountered.
I'm actually interested in the topic of the thread which is on the differences between the short and the feature... Which 18 minutes in the feature are the short... or namely where does the short begin?
~If you say "I had everything under control" one more time I'm going to slap you with my guitar.~