I hate our people

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I hadn't checked this site in several days. Thought most everone had gone on to
another site by now. Glad to see you are still around.

Tyty, don't give up that change can never occur. Hate and fear may make things
happen, but they won't change the underlying conditions that cause so much
misery. Do what THX suggested~ learn more. I know I have really opened my
eyes due to the comments I have read on all of the posts on ITW.

Then send an email to any elected official you have any influence on. We still
can vote and they have to know it. I saw on the news this morning that
Indian mascots with offensive sounding names will no longer be allowed
by the NCAA in post season games in 2006. We can change things, it's just
very slow and frustrating.

Also, I was glad to see several people were interested in teaching positions
on the reservations.

Well said, THX. Education is the key.

Years ago I had the opportunity to spend a year teaching on a reservation. When I came, I was afraid. Fear of the unknown. But by the time I left, I had fallen in love with the people. I wasn't a good teacher but I have some marvelous memories of individuals I met. After traveling and spending time in various places, even though I am a caucasian, I've come to feel that white men are perhaps the people most in need of an enlightened education. We are all human beings and wouldn't it be nice if people would just treat others with respect and in the way they themselves would like to be treated. It might also be worth mentioning that the value of a people shouldn't have to be based on how much material goods they possess, but on the greatness of their heart. I've seen this time and time again, as for example down in rural Mexico, and in the far north of Canada where Inuit people were extremely kind to me, a stranger in need of assistance. Yet in other cases when in time of need I hoped for some advice or help or moral support from whites, they were too busy with their own things to bother doing anything nice for me. That's too typical. They haven't yet learned that material goods bring a shallow, hollow kind of pleasure, not true happiness which I think can't happen without a clear conscience.

Thank you, THX, I wholeheartedly agree with you. You can't change history but you can make darn sure you don't repeat it. My oldest son is part Sioux by way of his father and grandmother and I feel it is so very important for him to know where he came from and that he know his heritage on both sides. Since watching this series with him, he has immersed himself in books, began asking questions of his grandparents and father and has a better understanding of what and who he is. Most importantly, he has chosen to take steps to what he can do to try and make a difference TODAY. It is his hope that he can someday return to South Dakota and contribute to his Indian family. Steven Spielberg is to be commended for the bold step he took in making this series. He has touched this family and we will be forever grateful.

hi bucky ,i have to say that this is the fourth time that i have watched into the west,every time i watch it,its hard not to cry.i know this movie only shows a little bit of the hard ship and cruelty that of the past.i am 38 years old and it takes a lot for me to cry but to see and hear the hard ship that the native americans had to put up with,well it just gets to me.

Yeah- I have noticed the gov't tends to gloss over what it doesn't want us to know about (those things that don't help our 'America is great' ideal.) I love my country but we should learn from the bad stuff as well as the good.

Indeed my friend .. don't hate .. but it's hard not to .. what our government did to the Indians is one of the most shameful things in our history .. right up there with slavery .. One thing that I have learned is the Indians did everything they could do to stand by the treaties .. it was the US Government who broke them .. I am reading the book " Bury Me at Wounded Knee " this series goes right along with that book .. I learned there is a movie of the book also .. don't know if I could watch it , it's bad enough to read it .. it has broken my hearts many times in reading it .. Every country has bad things that happen .. and just as you have said .. " learn from it " .. peace .

of course, redmaple it is not your fault what happened back in time. the thing is, though, that the injustice is still not over. many american indian communities still suffer from historic law making, broken treaties and so on.

"you didn't do it, I didn't do it, people that were taught, brought up and complelely believed natives werent humans did it, no use to hate yourself....... if we all thought that way about what our ancestors did in the past, we all would completely hate ourselves! "

Excellent point! I think we all have ancestors who did things we'd be ashamed of if we knew what they were involved in. What matters isn't what our ancestors did but what WE do from this point forward. It's the only thing we have control of and at this point in time the only thing that will make a difference. It's natural to feel guilt and shame when you find out what happened in the past. However guilt only serves a useful purpose when it motivates you to avoid that course and from here on out do the right thing. Once it's served that purpose it's time to let guilt go.

Excellent post joleofmichigan I completely agree with you

I don't find your post all that offensive but you need to hear why.

I believe that you did do some amount of research to come to your current understanding of what went on back then, but your material and your interpretations were grossly misguided.

I'm glad that you no longer feel guilt for being white, as you had nothing to do with the genocide that took place and feeling guilt towards your own culture is something that I would not want to experience......but you'd best believe that the "whites" did commit the worst atrocities not just in the U.S. and North America but they make a fairly convincing bid for the world title with what happened to our people. Estimates (which sadly is all we'll ever have) put the number as high as 95% of our population was wiped out due to warfare, disease and famine that was put upon us by the "settlers". The one point I'm willing to bend on here is disease 'cause hey, *beep* happens, but even then I will only bend so far as there are documented accounts of possesions of the sick being given to native tribes with hopes of spreading the disease. Famine was a direct result of overhunting done by the white man and warfare, well we've all heard the horror stories.

I also don't like how you've taken one of the most sacred rituals (o-kee-pa, only I've only ever known it by another name) in our traditions and put such a negative spin on it ("morbid fantasies") and then used it to make yourself feel better about what white people did to our people. You're continuing to degrade our culture with that statement, and for that you should be ashamed.

I can't really comment on your third statement as I have little to no experience with the topic, but I do find it to be quite ignorant and insensitive to the African American plight.

Please continue to do research and dive deeper into these matters before writing them off as you have.
You can start with two book's that I've read and found them to be extremely well written, using actual documentation gathered from the days of when this was actually going on. The books are;

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee Brown and,
A Little Matter of Genocide: Holocaust and Denial in the Americas 1492 to Present by Ward Churchill

Thanks and feel free to reply.

We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

joleofmichigan,

whow, first i have to take some deep breath after reading your statement! Are you for real. you are the best example of white ignorance, you are the reason that i am sometimes ashamed of my skincolor ( i am white, too).

first, when the europeans landed on the american coast, they did not encounter primitive cultures. the cultures had a perfect understanding of their surroundings, which topped the understanding of the europeans in many cases. you critique the cultural practices of the american indians with even great ignorance. only because their customs do not fit within the tight limits of your western trained mind does not mean that they are babaric. the tribes of the americas acted as they did because it fit into their relationship with nature. we westerners lost the understanding and relationship with nature, and this will be our downfall.

people like you continue the colonization. people like you are the problem because as long as such thinking exists there will never be equality within the United States.

I am so mad and sad to read your uneducated statement!

I don't think that you realize that there were two different cultures here, who had no knowledge of each other to this point. Therefore you cannot simply rely on European outlooks, as they do not understand the culture (most of the time). Yes, the Europeans did view some of the Native culture as "morbid fantasies," but how do you think the Natives felt about European practices? All I'm trying to say is try looking at it from outside of your normal cultural perspective, and view it from Native shoes. This was the source of many of the problems between the Natives and the whites. This is especially so with the English, who only saw the Natives as being in the way of their progress. The French were a little better in this respect, learning the culture and sometimes being incorporated into it. However, the French were certainly no saints.

Also, your thoughts on slavery, I would argue that it started out of the lack of available labor or slaves in the new world. The Indians died quickly from disease, as the whites also did. Meanwhile the Africans were from the same latitude and therebye could handle the weather and disease much better, at least they thought. I would say that cultural superiority played a minor role in the beginning, and grew after the importation to the new world in order to hold them down. However, the lack of labor was the major initial impetus. No matter why the institution of slavery was established it certainly was a dark point in US history, which forever changed the history of the US.

"technologically, governmentally superior culture."

Yes, what would us savages have done without the enlightenment of white christianity to teach us the evil of our ways. How would we ever have survived without the rifle, the train, and alcohol, Technology was integral in the mindless slaughter of the buffalo by these superior cultures.

How would we have ever survived without the disease riddled superior culture that came and eradicated us.

The self righteousness of white society and christianity never ceases to amaze me. It hasn't stopped either. There's no point speaking to most people about any of this because they've been convinced that christianity is the one and only true faith. Read Russel Means book, "Where white men fear to tread" and you'll see that it didn't end in the 19th or even the 20th century.

Nobody is going to convince Americans or Canadians or any white society that anyone living in a non-christian society is anything but savages who just need to see the light.

Hate yourself all you want, it's not going to change anything. Do something. Make a change. That will be productive.

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but why were the 800 settlers killed?! they were killed because they wanted to take over the homeland of the Native Americans. they killed the white settlers in defense for their own families. you are right, mostly there are two side to everything, but to be honest. i don't think these two sides are equal. the white people came to take over the land. the native americans defendet it. i think there is a difference.

Okay there professor...and I believe you are a professor about as much as I believe you lived this Kevin Costner fantasy you describe, among us savages.

Before you open your mouth and spew out more of your uneducated facts, keep in mind that your knowledge comes from an educational system that still refuses to acknowledge most of what it did to my people. In short, white schools do not teach the truth about us or what was done to us.

The Santee Sioux uprising that you have no facts about, was the result of US Government agents stealing the Santee's treaty annuity money, which resulted in widespread starvation and death on the Santee reservation.
These same agents of the US govt, were also stealing and then selling all the supplies from shipments bound for the reservation, to the settlers in Mankato.
President Lincoln then ordered the execution of 38 Santee men who were picked at random from the reservation, never given any kind of trial or hearing, and were hanged in Mankato in front of the very people who had been living off of the Santee's money and supplies and caused the whole uprising in the first place. Lincoln never even inquired as to the reason for the uprising before he ordered the executions.

Take Thanksgiving for instance. The governor of the new colony at Plymouth proclaimed a feast of thanks for his militia after they had just returned from butchering an entire village of unarmed Wampanoag men, women and children AND he encouraged other colonies to do likewise. That is the feast you still celebrate today, as a national holiday.

The concessions at the National Park where Mount Rushmore is, right up into the 90's were still selling postcards that showed the massacre at Wounded Knee, and cavalrymen standing around piled up bodies of murdered Indians, smiling for the camera. Postcards of dead Indians! Imagine the reaction if someone sold postcards from Aushwitz or Dachau???

George Washington's "famous" crossing of the Delaware was only possible because he had a Seneca woman seated in the bow of the boat, guiding him across. Also, his armies would have frozen to death and starved had it not been for the Seneca feeding and clothing them during the winter. Washington also made a name for himself attacking Indian villages and burning their houses down, then killing the fleeing women and children mercilessly.

Thomas Jefferson wrote into the Declaration of Independence, "the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfareis an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes, and conditions"

Then, how about "The Trail of Tears?" Mr. Professor?

The Cherokee Nation was invaded and broken by the US Govt and forced at riflepoint to march out of their homeland. Randy Golden wrote about this: " In May, 1838, the forcible eviction of the Cherokee Nation began. Government troops under the command of Winfield Scott, at times supported by the brutal Georgia Guard, moved across the state taking the helpless Cherokee from their homes. Within two weeks every Cherokee in North Georgia, Tennessee, and Alabama had been captured, killed, overlooked or fled. Holding areas contained the Cherokee until they could be moved to one of the specially constructed forts further north."

4000 Cherokee men, women and children died on that forced march of 1000 miles from Rattlesnake Springs Tennesee, to Oklahoma under the supervision of the US army.

I have only scratched the surface here, Mr. Know-it-all. What was done to my people was unforgivable and unfortunately its people like you who trivialize it by saying such idiotic things like, "Well, you would still be living in tipi's and wearing skins if it weren't for us"

Yes, we would; and what a wonderful place this would still be.

"1862 - As many as 800 settlers killed in uprising of Santee Sioux. also only 7 NA's were wounded NO ONE KILLED
so next time you open your mouth try and do a little research before you say something."


Actually, the casualties for the Dakota Conflict of 1862 numbered approximately 500 settlers killed and 60 Dakota. An additional 38 Dakota men were hanged at Mankato in December, plus others lynched and killed by angry settlers.