MovieChat Forums > East Broadway Discussion > I viewed the film... and regret it!

I viewed the film... and regret it!


So I saw "Falling for Grace" this weekend in San Francisco. I was drawn to see it by a couple of people near the theater who were encouraging people to view the film. After a brief conversation with them, my wife and I decided to wait around a while in the area and give the film a try.

This really was one of the most saccharine, predictable, stereotype feeding films I have seen in quite some time. Aside from being spectacularly predictable, in the way films of this genre ("chick flicks") are, I thought it was also insulting to Asian women and women in general.

How is this film insulting to Asian women?. Grace (the character) is a successful, educated, socially adept woman. As a child, she dreams of being a blond, white princess- remember, that's what she writes in the "school project" her father shows her late in the film. She loathes her real name "Yip", as it is too chinese. She has to take care of her parents, who are too chinese - she needs to translate for them when opening a bank account. She grows up, and attends a society function, where she gets the opportunity to pretend to be a wealthy Hong Kong socialite. So then, this educated, articulate woman finds that she is not complete. What "completes" her? An attached attorney. By the way if her character does not know that he's attached, perhaps she is not as intelligent as I thought. When a man tells a woman "my situation is a little complicated..", he's attached. I won't mention the additional racial undercurrent here..

What does the screenwriter/director/protagonist really expect us to take away after seeing her film? Is the point that a woman is not quite complete unless her prince finds her, or that the "holy grail" of an Asian woman is a white male? Is it that 2 people establishing a relationship based on lies is ok since it's fulfilling the childhood dreams of a little girl who hates herself?



"I never saved anything for the swim back."

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Did you not notice, or did you simply choose not to report, that Grace's Asian co-worker ends up with an Asian man?

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***You must be old and wrinkled to have that type of reaction. - Liana***

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[deleted]

Yes, I noticed Janie (played by Cho) connects with an Asian man.

Let's see how this character plays out in the film. Early in the film, he is portrayed as someone interested in Grace. He sheepishly asks her if she wants to go see a theater production with him, after asking Janie if she thinks Grace would go out with him, whether he should ask her in person or phone her(to which Janie mutters that he ought to ask in person since it's harder for her to say no in person). When he does ask her, she of course says no (Janie has already called Grace to warn her), since she's already going to meet Andrew for dinner. After his rejection, he asks Janie (Cho). Cho, of course says yes.

Let's be real here. Janie is not only a secondary character, she is written as subordinate to Grace in every way. She's heavier than Grace. Not that it's a bad thing to be heavy, but the way their relationship is set up, it is. The analogy being Ethel to Lucy. Janie is also portrayed as less attractive than Grace, although I personally find it the opposite. She and her Asian guy don't really choose to connect (like Grace and Andrew), they just end up with each other.

The fact that the man that Janie ends up with is wealthy and educated, is parenthetical to the storyline.

Clearly the relationship you cite is completely different from Grace's.


"I never saved anything for the swim back."

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So your contention is that he is portrayed as an unworthy partner, and -- as a symbol of Asian men -- signifies the unworthiness of Asian men as partners? Is that about the size of it? Of course he does turn out to be extremely wealthy as well as handsome, but never mind. What all this boils down to, as usual, is the notion that Fay Ann Lee, as a woman of Chinese descent, has no business getting a crush on John F. Kennedy, Jr. Caucasian American women can get in line if they want to, but Asian women, no.

Alas, it's a fact of life that Asian women, black women, white women and and quite a few men who never thought they'd be stirred by anybody who shaves his chin had a crush on John John and still do. This is a fact well understood by most people, which is why the Asians I saw the movie with at Tribeca absolutely loved it, and why the students in Beijing that Lee showed it to loved it as well. Only when you superimpose on the actual film a political agenda including the item that films by Asian directors need to validate Asian men as love objects and power figures do you get this kind of nonsense.

I'm no stranger, as a gay man, to self-appointed moral intelligentsia among minority groups. Lesbian feminists with a hate on dildoes, gay male activists who think every poor actor in Hollywood ought to be dragged out of the closet, lesbian separatists who want other lesbians to stop volunteering at AIDS hostels, gay men who want the movement to cut off transexuals from its agenda and shove them out to sea, gay people of color who attack other gay people of color for sleeping with white gays or having them as friends, gay Republicans screaming at the "left wing agenda" of the Human Rights Campaign, gay activists who demand that movies and television never show homosexual men attracted to straight men -- these are types I'm familiar with.

They hate QUEER AS FOLK because the lesbians aren't prominent enough, or because not all the characters are settled down, or because somebody uses drugs occasionally, or because it has an urban setting, or because the core group is white. They hate BIG EDEN because the lead male has a crush on a straight friend. They attack THE BROKEN HEARTS CLUB because there's only one black guy in it. They attack THE L WORD because the women aren't butch enough. They hate THE BOYS IN THE BAND because the guys are unhappy. They attack THE FLUFFER, TRICK, THE VELOCITY OF GARY and a host of other films because they show gay men being too interested in sex.

And with respect to miscegenation themes, it's hardly just a few Asians with a chip on their shoulder and a propensity for selective and agenda-driven pseudo-exegesis. For every artist with a personal history to extrapolate from, a story he's passionate about telling, a talent for getting it told, a drive to get it disseminated, and finally -- the goods -- there are a hundred thousand know-it-all armchair critics with a political template the thing doesn't happen to fit, a desire to dragoon artists into conformity with a New Consciousness, a boycott petition in one hand and a bullhorn in the other. It's interesting that the Asians (and others) who actually make films aren't generally the people who scream about other people's work. It isn't the people who make the films you actually approve of who denounce the films you don't. It's usually the people who have never gotten closer to writing a script than making a grocery list, or any closer to a movie camera than an Instamatic.

The occasional exception is somebody like Spike Lee, who wants to personally dominate black filmmaking and wants scarce capital diverted from everybody else's work to his own. Most people who understand how art is made, and how difficult it is to make it To Order are more tolerant of stories they want to see fewer of, and less prone to demand that everybody else get to work on stories that they do. If there's a story they want told, they simply tell it. Because they can. The rest of us either enjoy films for what they are, to the extent that we can, or complain, complain, complain of what they are not. Never mind, Ninotchka, that Asian woman filmmakers are already as rare as hen's teeth -- discourage them, if they run afoul of your 5 year plan. The latest mass trials have been a great success; there are going to be fewer but better Russians.

Whatever. It's a romantic comedy. I found it romantic and touching, and it made me laugh. Sue me. And Lee. Oh hell, sue the world.



e**You must be old and wrinkled to have that type of reaction. - Liana***

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Ducdebrabant, I think your post might just be the best post on any site I have EVER seen. Needless to say, good points and I agree completely.

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Oh, my. Thank you very much.

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***You must be old and wrinkled to have that type of reaction. - Liana***

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I think what he's saying is that white men are always portrayed as being the object of flawless affection and Asian men deserve to be shown in the same light. It's not that the gripe is the deviation of Asian men being portrayed in this fashion but rather it's never shown in this fashion.

People these days are so dishonest with yourself. When was the last time an American production portrayed Asian men in this fashion while also giving white men the second servings? The only one I've seen was Shanghai Kiss where a white man plays the sidekick to the Asian man.

You need balance in the world; in essence, yin-yang. The fact that this is even an issue is because there is no balance at all.

It's a legit gripe and people have a right to be suspecious. I remember a Asian female director, who's name escapes me for the minute, who stated Asian men don't trust white men and to a certain extent, Asian women, because they believe these two groups are merely setting Asian men up to fail.

This is why the original poster is suspecious of the Asian man who hooked up with the woman who is considered substandard. Keep in mind that if one has a history of perpetuating stereotypes which white controlled Hollywood has been guilty of, people are less apt to trust you. I don't blame them.

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Amen. Amen. AMEN.

Now what do you say to that ducdebabrant? Eh?! Freedom of speech my arse, you blind guide. This Fanny Mae (or whatever her name is) woman is making me sickened to my stomach. I want to puke on her flat face.

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I think what he's saying is that white men are always portrayed as being the object of flawless affection and Asian men deserve to be shown in the same light. It's not that the gripe is the deviation of Asian men being portrayed in this fashion but rather it's never shown in this fashion.
If that were all he were saying, we'd never have argued. What he is in fact saying is that white men are always portrayed as being the object of flawless affection and Asian men deserve to be shown in the same light, and therefore this is a bad film and Fay Ann Lee is a bad person.

What I say (and not only to him) is that there is indeed a problem with the portrayal of Asian men in western media, that Fay Ann Lee is not responsible for that either in whole or in part, that this is in fact a good film, and that anybody who hasn't seen it ought to shut up. What I hear back is, how can I say Fay Ann Lee isn't a bad person, or that this is a good film, or that anybody who hasn't seen it isn't just as good an authority as anyone who has? Don't I realize that white men are always portrayed as being the object of flawless affection and Asian men deserve to be shown in the same light? And round and round we go.

Oh, there are occasional changes in the routine. Somebody occasionally does try to explain to me something I already understand and don't dispute. Occasionally somebody else announces something to the effect that he'd like to "puke in the director's flat face." Except for these occasional variations, the discourse is in a continuous loop. I have read a great deal of such nonsense by now... and regret it.

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***You must be old and wrinkled to have that type of reaction. - Liana***

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[I think what he's saying is that white men are always portrayed as being the object of flawless affection and Asian men deserve to be shown in the same light. It's not that the gripe is the deviation of Asian men being portrayed in this fashion but rather it's never shown in this fashion.

People these days are so dishonest with yourself. When was the last time an American production portrayed Asian men in this fashion while also giving white men the second servings? The only one I've seen was Shanghai Kiss where a white man plays the sidekick to the Asian man. ]

Thank you!

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Haha. Very funny. You mentioned "Asian" co-worker didn't you? Ever wonder why that co-worker wasn't played by a slim blonde? You m---f------- egghead?

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You are obviously not obsessed with Gale Harold, like me. I saw him last year in New York in Suddenly Last Summer with Blythe Danner. I traveled from Houston, just to see the show. I waited outside the theater, and he came out and signed autographs. He was quiet and didn't want to take photographs, but very pleasant and appreciative of the fans. I atill have the brand new pen I handed him to sign autographs in my shadow box with the ticket and signed program, so our DNA is forever sealed together. I knew there was a reason I didn't give my husband a hard time for going to strip clubs......His name is Gale Harold, and he is pure sex. I expected him to climb in one of the waiting limos, but he just put on his black baseball cap and walked down the street. It took every part of my being not to run after him, but I mandaged to pull it together in the end. :)

He is SO hot.

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He would have outrun you anyway. People have tried it.

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***You must be old and wrinkled to have that type of reaction. - Liana***

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Oh lordy, your post offered nothing to this thread and you are in need of serious help. A pen forever linking your DNA with an actor who wouldn't know you from Eve? Please tell me that hot mess was tongue-in-cheek because if it wasn't, there is no wonder your husband feels the need to have strippers on his lap. His little woman is a wackjob in desperate need of a reality check.

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I presume you've never crushed on a celebrity, since you claim the right to throw a stone. I personally think that's a little sad, but hey, that's me. Fanlove for Gale Harold has just as much business on a board for a Gale Harold movie as pseudo-exegesis on Marxist lines by people who haven't seen the picture. And the line about DNA was obviously tongue in cheek, and I'll bet you knew it, too.

The Republican Plan: repeal all reform; collect payoffs; go yachting (but not in the Gulf).

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[So I saw "Falling for Grace" this weekend in San Francisco. I was drawn to see it by a couple of people near the theater who were encouraging people to view the film. After a brief conversation with them, my wife and I decided to wait around a while in the area and give the film a try.

This really was one of the most saccharine, predictable, stereotype feeding films I have seen in quite some time. Aside from being spectacularly predictable, in the way films of this genre ("chick flicks") are, I thought it was also insulting to Asian women and women in general.

How is this film insulting to Asian women?. Grace (the character) is a successful, educated, socially adept woman. As a child, she dreams of being a blond, white princess- remember, that's what she writes in the "school project" her father shows her late in the film. She loathes her real name "Yip", as it is too chinese. She has to take care of her parents, who are too chinese - she needs to translate for them when opening a bank account. She grows up, and attends a society function, where she gets the opportunity to pretend to be a wealthy Hong Kong socialite. So then, this educated, articulate woman finds that she is not complete. What "completes" her? An attached attorney. By the way if her character does not know that he's attached, perhaps she is not as intelligent as I thought. When a man tells a woman "my situation is a little complicated..", he's attached. I won't mention the additional racial undercurrent here..

What does the screenwriter/director/protagonist really expect us to take away after seeing her film? Is the point that a woman is not quite complete unless her prince finds her, or that the "holy grail" of an Asian woman is a white male? Is it that 2 people establishing a relationship based on lies is ok since it's fulfilling the childhood dreams of a little girl who hates herself? ]

Thank you, for being an outspoken Asian American OFFENDED by this Uncle Tom, White worshipping, piece of crap film.

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Well, we regret YOU aka LOSER, being in our world so why don't you JUST LEAVE, ala go play in traffic!

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This is definitely not a "white-worshipping" movie.

It's a Gale Harold-worshipping movie.

I'm pretty sure most Asians can relate to that. I just found a new fansite for him in Indonesia:

http://mygale.110mb.com/

Yum. I've been known to react exactly the same way to Tony Leung; some things transcend race (even if some people never will).

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duc, before you just brush off these criticisms, you aren't examining things from a minority point of view. When TV, film, and commercials constantly show WM/AF pairings, at the exclusion of the other half of Asian America, it really is interesting that Asian men haven't gotten violent like White or Black men would have (or, in the case of White males, *have* done in the past).

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Well if they ever do, I hope they'll exercise a little discrimination in their choice of whose car to set on fire, or window to break. I don't think Fay Ann Lee should on the list.

The Republican Plan: repeal all reform; collect payoffs; go yachting (but not in the Gulf).

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The child character in this movie wishes she was White looked White, and the movie at the end does not reconcile this self hate she has! Her dreams came true when she finally found her White Knight she always dreamed of growing up brainwashed by Western media

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Grace (the character) is a successful, educated, socially adept woman. As a child, she dreams of being a blond, white princess- remember, that's what she writes in the "school project" her father shows her late in the film. She loathes her real name "Yip", as it is too chinese. She has to take care of her parents, who are too chinese - she needs to translate for them when opening a bank account.


I can understand how certain things said or presented in the movie can seem insulting to asian women, but I kind of disagree. I think it all depends on the experiences a person has, and the cultural lens they are viewing the film in.

I'm a first generation Asian American, and to be honest I find some of these things to shine true to certain feelings I might have even had as a child. It's through my experiences in the cultural setting I grew up in, that allows me to see this more as humorous. I think you should keep in mind the background or the experiences the writer/director might have had and how this may influence certain aspects of the movie.

Everyone views things through different lenses and I can understand how this can come off as not politically correct by any means, but lets get real. Sometimes there are girls out there who can relate or see this through the same cultural experiences. Sometimes it's hard to understand something if you didn't have similar experiences.

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"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is research." OR: "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target."
In any case, the “flick” discussed here was almost as interesting as the “comments”.

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it was a pretty bad movie, but I think it had quite a few funny/interesting moments to keep me from turning it off. The guy was pretty cute...that helped a lot, even though his hair was silly. I thought Grace was too old for the part.

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