MovieChat Forums > Die fetten Jahre sind vorbei (2004) Discussion > Why did all the hippies give up hope?

Why did all the hippies give up hope?


The guy they kidnapped in the movie, said that he used to be as idealistic and involved with social action and justice when we was the same age as Jan. But then he gave up, and started living an everday 'normal' life, getting a job, married, kids, acquiring more and more wealth, etc.

The hippies and other heroes of the counter culture of the 60's and all other youth of that generation are now known as Baby Boomers. The generation that is greatly responsible for this free market economic system we're mired in and encouraged capitalism and mass consumerism and the supeficial lifestyles we lead. Haardenberg, whom they kidnapped is an embodiment of a sterotypical, succesful baby boomer.


My question is ; Why did he become like that? And by extention what happened to all the ideals and activism of hope and equality which defined who they were at one point?

This is all my opinion and having just seen the movie last night (which I admire very much btw -7.5/10)I am puzzled at this. Im a young Gen Y'er, and would love to get some feedback from a Baby Boomer, Capitalist/ Soicalist/ Hippie/ whatever social idealogy or generation you belong to.


I would love to get involved with a discussion about this, and would welcome any comment about this. Im not here to argue, but to learn more and be involved in a intelligent and civil dialogue.

I'm sure the Edukators would be proud.

Cheers.


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*Idealist

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Because they didn't have a real solution. They just protested, smoked weed, used psychotropic drugs, made love and thats all. There was an ideology behind everything, but for most of them, hippie movement was just an interesting thing to do at that moment, and later the interesting thing shifted and they started to work, to have a family and to earn money. Of course there were some frustrations when they were shifting from hippies to conformists.

If you want to stick to your ideas, you have to have a strong philosophical basis, resign yourself from the wealth, dare to live in isolation etc. For many it was just not worth it. Others stick to the ideas-way of life and were seen as freaks and outsiders. And I think that some of them slightly transformed-improved their ideas for more practical purposes and realized them - I think thats the best way.

The ones which gave up their hopes were sheeps. At first they followed hippie movement leaders (because that was the hot thing), and later they shifted to conformist living and started folowing the stereotypes because this was the safe way and the herd was goind that direction.

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Hello Kugelis :)

Your thoughtful and insightful response is much appreciated. Thank you :)
It is a bit disheartening what you just said. That most people who 'believed'in all those ideals were just believers for the sake of it, and because it was trendy at the time. Because those ideas are somewhat noble and are moralistically how I would view the world and how it should be. So much for ideals I suppose.

Would you mind if I ask where your informed opinion on it come from? Just out of curiosity. As in were you involved in the movement, an anthropologist, an avid reader, a social observer, etc?

I would love to know. Thanks again for your time writing on this topic.

I'm 24 years old. But I feel older and I dont feel like I fully go along with the world as it is. Just so you know where I'm coming from :)

Cheers.

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Hi, my opinion comes from lots of different sources. I have my own nonconformistic ideas, I read a lot, I watch a lot of movies, I like to observe people and understand the human nature etc...

Check out these:
"The human animal" (study on human nature) - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0149471/
"Empty Houses" (silent protest) - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0423866/
"Taxi driver" (social outsider) - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/

and also
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061343/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0169547/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247196/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115678/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115751/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062794/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118789/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0402906/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097165/

all those movies have the same nonconformistic theme. do you need more titles?

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I think Hagenberg's response pretty much summed it up perfectly. You get married, you have kids, you get tired of cars that don't run, roofs that leak, crappy jobs, etc. I'm 66 yrs old. I was a whole-hearted participant in the Summer of Love in SF. I never lost my ideals, but I sure wasn't able to live the life I had imagined when I was smoking a lot of dope and practicing free love. It's become quite fashionable to dump on the hippies because we eventually cut our hair and got jobs. Many of us weren't hypocrites. We were just naive.

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[deleted]

How do you think the draft got abolished?

How do you think women's rights and liberties expanded?


What are you calling "the hippie movement"? You seem to think of some subset of a movement (the relatively few who did nothing but drugs) as the movement itself.

There would almost certainly have been no 'hippie movement' without the Vietnam War. You don't get a slogan "Make Love Not War" without having a war that revolts people so strongly they embrace its opposite.

And the hippie movement -- which was anti-war and anti-establishment, and pro-freedom and pro-experimentation – was a key component of the popular show of force that ultimately led to the end of that war as well as of the draft that fed it. Hippies were often the younger siblings of draftees off getting killed in Vietnam, reviled by how a government could destroy their family for what has now come to be called an 'optional war'. Which led them also to feel deceived by a government who had, our entire childhoods, drilled into us daily (literally, with 'duck and cover' bomb drills) that communism was so evil that fear of it alone was a stated rationale for having torn up their families to fight it in Vietnam. As it became clear we were supporting puppet dictators, the rage and outrage and disillusion and grief that led people, especially young people with lost friends and brothers and husbands, into the streets and to protest, it grew into more than anti-war -- and thus anti-establishment in general (for all the lies that had been exposed) and pro-freedom, which got translated into all kinds of freedoms that were also defiances of rules -- rules that had led ultimately to old men coercing other families' young boys into war and violence and death. Many hippies were even returnees from Vietnam, survivors forever haunted by PTSD and seeking escape by any means possible - some more in protest, some more in drugs.

I could similarly elaborate on the interconnections of the hippie movement with the expansion of women's rights that advanced in the 1970s...

Yes, as in any movement, some people adopted the slogans or the drugs or the sex without the beliefs behind it, but if you think that was even remotely a majority of the movement, you either weren't alive then or you weren't paying attention. You have a grossly reductionistic view.

And to someone else above in this thread who acknowledges they weren't alive, it wasn't hippies who became baby boomers, it was baby boomers (a sizeable percentage of us) who became hippies - a term that belongs on a continuum (of degrees of manifest 'hippieness'). Mostly it was being increasingly appalled by the war and its raging toll of lives that fostered an anti-war movement that merged into an intense 'anti-establishment' movement that challenged the status quo and fought for self-determination, in all things.

"No convictions? No change? Never gained traction? Stood for nothing except Dionysian principles?" That's propaganda somebody has fed you.

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I will add here to what I just wrote in reply to "souched" (??) at the end of this thread, so please read that post as well, i won't repeat those ideas here ...

What I would add to you concerns your notion that somehow the Baby Boomers (who have been known as the Baby Boom Generation since they were born, not just "now") are "greatly responsible for the economic system we're mired in" -- Yes, we're definitely mired in an economic system, but one that was already entrenched long and well before Baby Boomers entered the work force, much less ran it. Baby Boomers have only been in positions of ostensible power in this economy for the past 20 years and, even then, only in some sectors and some positions. Yes, we had the first Baby Boomer President as of 1992 and ever since, but one of the awful truths of what this era has exposed is that CEOs run the government far more than the government runs CEOs. The lack of public financing of elections is the single biggest culprit - a cause that many Baby Boomers have fought to change – in how money buys our politics. And that preceded and eventually disillusioned many a Baby Boomer and once-upon-a-time hippie among us. Fighting for change and seeing that politicians of all stripes are eventually bought off by those who finance their campaigns with the rarest of exceptions is a key (not exclusive but key) factor in what led many to turn back instead to idealism on a local or small or homefront scale because fighting for real change on the societal level -- even though much change did happen but only a fraction of what was hoped for and envisioned -- began to feel to many like beating one's head against a brick wall.

But for every Baby Boomer who then got seduced, as Hardenburg rationalizes in the film, into doing whatever it took to find financial security and then sucked into materialism for its own sake, there is at least one (and i'd bet more than one) Baby Boomer who has maintained their idealism but most have channeled it into quiet work lives - in teaching or grassroots movements or into habits of recycling (I meant to add to my prior post that the environmental movement, as well as the anti-war and women's rights movements were significantly fed by hippie/boomer idealism - there was no such thing as recycling or widespread ecological awareness until this generation became active in its cause) and conservation, and intending (successfully or not) to raise a next generation. (And I wouldn't generalize about the outcomes of those rechannelings - in your generation as well as mine, there are plenty of new idealists as well as those who've bought into the notion they have to be millionaires by 30.) The media, alas, all bought out by corporate and materialistic forces these days, paint in broad strokes that feed simplistic images of whole movements.

Some Boomers like myself still struggle to hold idealism in the face of ever-more deception, of seeing leaders offer hope for change and then also "drink the koolaid" and succumb to the forces of capitalist elections (i.e., he [sic] who garners the most $$ -- and thus owes the most to his creditors -- wins).

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cetaylor-

The hippie culture did nothing to change the status quo, they just altered it's superficial structure.

We still live in a world where:

There is a growing class divide.
Poverty is rampant.
Militarism has only increased.
Inflation continually increases it's rate and pace.
Public debt increases.
Obama recently crafted the largest arms deal in U.S. history.
We are bombing poor countries.
The middle class is disappearing.


I should know at least something about hippiedom. I was raised by hippies, spent time among what could be called contemporary hippies, and have read extensively on matters such as LSD and the hippie subculture.

I know it is a broad term, but the different people that fall under the 'hippie' umbrella all demonstrate common traits and behaviors that are allegedly 'counter-culture' but in the end they are just another form of mass consumer.

"How do you think the draft got abolished?

How do you think women's rights and liberties expanded?"

Honestly I think these issues are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Sure, the draft got abolished. Did that do anything to eliminate militarism? No. We still bomb, build bases, and occupy. So the draft is simply a domestic issue that they use to appease people here at home, a smoke screen distraction to keep us happy and complacent while the push to global domination is continued.

Women's rights? Right to what? Before women's rights, women were dependent on men for their welfare. Now, women are dependent on the state (which translates to men with guns) for welfare. The basis has not changed, only the appearance. Women get welfare, child support. Hardly what I would call 'women's independence'.

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When you hit 30 and realize you make much more money than you can spend, you realize that:

a) You didn't see the big picture when you were younger, and you find yourself doing stuff you never wanted to do(sacrificing time with family to make enough money to support them, letting go of friends who didn't change as you did, stop smoking weed and drinking every day, etc)
b) You worked your ass off, and now think you don't have to share what you earned
c) Your friends who are still poor, spent all their lives complaining about the system, while you were pulling the extra hours... And the taxes, oh my god, what they are doing with your taxes...

They say that if you were never a commie as a youngster, you have no heart, but if you're old and still a commie you have no brain.

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Having been a part of that era in San Francisco I believe the Manson "family" contributed to this, as did the end of the Vietnam war. It is interesting to note, what the young people were doing in the film in rich people's homes was first done by the Manson family before the terrible murders. They called it, "creepy crawls".

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