MovieChat Forums > Munich (2006) Discussion > the ancient Olympics make you understand...

the ancient Olympics make you understand how evil the Munich attack was

posted 8 years ago by RustyShacklefurd
46 replies | jump to latest

To fully understand just how horrible the terrorist attack on Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics really was you have to look at the ancient Olympics. In ancient Greece a truce would be announced during the Olympic games to ensure that the host city-state wasn’t attacked and to ensure that athletes and spectators could travel safely to the Games and peacefully return to their respective city-states. Greek city-states wouldn’t start wars during the Olympics and ongoing wars between them would be paused.

Though the modern Olympics haven’t been able to pause ongoing wars, for their first 76 years they were at least able to keep athletes and spectators safe from the violence of ongoing conflicts. That all changed in 1972. That was the only time in all of history that Olympic athletes were murdered at the Games. Since 1896 there have been many wars and conflicts. Many of them were far worse than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In many other conflicts far more people suffered much more greatly than in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Yet the Palestinians were the first and only group of people to believe that their conflict was so important that they had to interrupt the peaceful tranquility of the Olympics with bloodshed. No other group of people has ever had the audacity to believe that their conflict or their suffering justified bringing violence to the Olympics. By attacking athletes at the Olympics the Black September terrorists were effectively claiming that their cause was uniquely special and different from other causes in the world. By committing this attack the Black September terrorists were effectively claiming that their cause was the most important cause in the world. It would have to be the most important cause in the world in order to be the only one that justified violence at the Olympics. The Munich attack was ultimately a display of enormous narcissism.

The Palestinians will forever be stained as the only people in whose name violence was committed at the Olympics.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

You don't want terrorism? Don't steal other people's land.

[–] Anorensic 8 years ago

Terrorism will still exist...Terrorism will always find reason to continue existing....Kudos to Israel on it's excellent response to terrorism.

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wat are you lookin' at punk...

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

You are pathetic, the Palestinians are the victims and they have a right to defend themselves. Israel is the terrorist and always has been.

[–] The_Dougster 8 years ago

You are pathetic, the Palestinians are the victims and they have a right to defend themselves. Israel is the terrorist and always has been.

I'd send this misguided soul a rebuttal but the little wuss has apparently put me on ignore. Seems he/she can't handle minor details like facts or accuracy.

[–] Anorensic 8 years ago

If Palestinians are the victims, then they should find non-violent ways to fight just like Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King...Terrorism is not the answer and will only harden Israel's position, while any freedom Palestine receives by violence will have little meaning to the Palestinians as they will always be used as a tool by powers who are only interested in waging proxy wars for their own profit.

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wat are you lookin' at punk...

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

lol that is the most pathetic, moronic thing I've ever heard. They have their country stolen from them, they've been occupied by the Jews since 1940 and you expect them not to use violence?? Fúck off, they have a right to defend themselves.

[–] Xenopharb (617) 4 years ago

I have to ask if you feel the same about Karelia, Prussia, Silesia, Pomerania, Balochistan, Azer Iran, Kurdistan, Christians in Istanbul, and a few hundred native tribes in the Americas. While I believe the Palestinians are an occupied people, I don't believe one can say that building a mosque on top of a Jewish temple gives them any more claim to the land than the Jews.

[–] Markunator 8 years ago

Massacring innocent athletes at the Olympics is not "defending yourself"!

Give me the ball.
- Baseball Bat Man, The Raid 2

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

Yes it is.

[–] Markunator 8 years ago

No, it isn't, troll.

Give me the ball.
- Baseball Bat Man, The Raid 2

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

LetThemEatCake01,

The Israeli athletes at the Olympics weren't hurting anyone so the Palestinian terrorists massacring them obviously can't count as them defending themselves.

[–] Druff (1447) 7 months ago

The Palestinians are victims of the Ottoman Empire's 'Arab Housing Authority' which in the 1880s started restricting Jewish immigration into Palestine and inflating Arab immigration, deliberately for the purpose of shunting as many Arabs as possible into the area to serve as unwitting pawns against the Zionist movement which was quickly gaining steam back then.

The land was never "stolen" from the people who currently call themselves Palestinians. The entire region has been under the control of imperial colonizers for 2000 years. First, the Romans who kicked the Jews out of Judea (Land of the Jews) and renamed it "Palestina" in the first place. Eventually the Roman Empire petered out and was replaced by the Ottoman Empire, the Turks. There was very little going on in the area called Palestine. There were still Jews living there, small scattered clusters of them who never left. There were more Arabs, but they never formed anything significant in Palestine. It never became a "nation" as such. There is nothing to define any sort of a Palestinian identity. No Palestinian culture per se. It stayed that way for hundreds of years, and then the Ottoman Empire went to war with Europe aka WWI. France and the UK kicked the crap out of them and ended up having control of the entire Middle East region. They re-drew most of the borders at will and created a bunch of brand new countries out of thin air. Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain, Pakistan, Sudan, Kuwait, Yemen, Qatar. And eventually Israel. All of those nations are for Arabs, except one. Yes, some Palestinian Arabs were displaced, but big fucking deal. That's what happens when one side loses a war. For example, Germany attacked Poland in 1938, WWII happened, and in 1944 Germany got their ass kicked and lost the war. Suddenly Poland had hundreds of square miles of brand new territory that had a few days earlier been part of Germany. The Germans living there became refugees and had to gtfo and find new homes elsewhere. They packed up and left and that was the end of it. Those German refugees and their descendants didn't spend the next 80 years screaming and crying and committing terrorist atrocities against Poland, because they're normal rational human beings who understand how the real world works, and not violent lizard brained animals.

The whole Israel/Palestine issue is completely covered in bullshit that has become politically incorrect taboo to acknowledge. It's about Muslim Arabs absolutely refusing to allow the existence of a Jewish state in their midst, period. Why? Because their founder Muhammad thought it would be easy to convert Jews to Islam but he was wrong. Islam has harbored intense murderous hatred for Jews ever since. It's one of the most basic and intrinsic parts of Islamic doctrine, but we're not allowed to talk about it because "islamophobic bigotry!"

[–] TimeTunnel (4608) 4 months ago

Very interesting post and I agree with most parts.
Just two minor corrections:

"Germany attacked Poland in 1938, WWII happened, and in 1944 Germany got their ass kicked and lost the war."
Germany (along with the Soviet Union) attacked Poland in 1939 and Germany surrendered in 1945.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

LetThemEatCake01,

You completely missed the point of what I said. Terrorism is one thing but terrorism at the Olympics is simply beyond the pale. It goes against everything for which the Olympics have stood for thousands of years. Besides the Palestinians, no other group has ever committed terrorism in the name of any other cause at the Olympics. Lots of people have had their land stolen. Only one group has ever committed terrorism at the Olympics. Do you really believe that the Palestinian cause is so uniquely special as to be the only one that deserves to have terrorism committed in its name at the Olympics?

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

Why does it matter?? They got their land stolen and the powers at be turned the blind eye. Why do you demonize them? They have the right to defend themselves anyway they can.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

LetThemEatCake01,

I explained why it matters in the first post. Why don't you actually read that post and engage with what I have to say instead of ignoring my argument?

Do you not understand that the Olympics are a sacred occasion of international peace and brotherhood? Do you not understand that the peace and tranquility of the Olympics is bigger and more important than the numerous petty conflicts that constantly litter this world? Do you believe that every terrorist group in the world should be killing athletes at the Olympics?

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

The occupation in Palestine is not a petty conflict. The Jews came in and literally stole an entire country. There is nothing petty about it, and your argument is baseless because the terrorist attacks were the retaliation of an extreme horrific injustice and violation of human rights.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

LetThemEatCake01,

First off, you're still ignoring my main point, which is about the Olympics. The point of this thread is not to discuss terrorism in general but specifically terrorism at the Olympics. Can you please stay on topic?

There's nothing baseless about my argument. I haven't said anything in this thread about why there is Palestinian terrorism. All terrorism in the world is retaliation for something or other. The whole point of the Olympics is that it's supposed to be a refuge from terrorism. What about that is so hard to see? There has to be times and places in the world where every conflict needs to be paused. The Olympic Games is one of those times and places. Are you or are you not willing to acknowledge the sacredness of the Olympics? Why can't you see that even if you excuse terrorism you should not excuse terrorism at the Olympics?

In the grand scale of things, the Israeli-Arab conflict certainly is relatively petty. Barely 100,000 people have been killed in the conflict. And that's over the course of 70 years. That's very petty compared to the Syrian Civil War, in which hundreds of thousands have been killed over the past 5 years. There are literally dozens of other conflicts in the past 70 years that have killed more people than the Israeli-Arab conflict has. Some of the conflicts in that time have killed millions. There are literally dozens of instances in the past 70 years in which pieces of land have been stolen, many of them far larger than Palestine. On the international scale, the Israeli-Arab conflict is undeniably petty. Stop acting like the Palestinian cause is somehow fundamentally different than dozens of other causes around the world. It clearly isn't.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

LetThemEatCake01,

So your response to my questions is to insult me. If you didn't take this topic seriously then you should have never posted in this thread. Please stop pretending that you care about the Palestinians.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

I care about the Palestinians but you should stop pretending you care about human rights.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

No, you don't really care about the Palestinians. You just claim to care about them because you hate Jews. Your derogatory comment about Jews proves that.

This thread is about the topic of terrorism at the Olympics. If you didn't have anything to say about that topic then you shouldn't have posted at all in this thread.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

I do care about the Palestinians and I discussed the topic, if you want extra condemnation for this act you won't get it. The Olympics don't even acknowledge the massacre, because they know it happened because you stole a country. Sorry.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

After what you said about Jews absolutely nothing you say could prove that you really care about the Palestinians. Repeating over and over again that you do care about the Palestinians does absolutely nothing to change that. If you really did care about the Palestinians you would immediately apologize for your disgusting comment about Jews. If you really cared about the Palestinians you would have refrained from making that comment because you would easily recognize that your disgusting comment about Jews would prevent anyone from taking seriously your expressions of concern about the Palestinians.

You did not in any way discuss the topic of this thread. The topic was the Olympics and terrorism. You never even said the word 'Olympics' until your most recent post. You never addressed anything I said about the long history of peace at the Olympics or the Olympic tradition of brotherhood that transcends political conflicts.

The Olympics certainly did acknowledge the massacre. After the attack, competition was suspended and there was a memorial service in the Olympic Stadium attended by 80,000 spectators and 3,000 athletes. Many felt that that wasn't sufficient but it was clearly acknowledged.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

The Jews want the attack to be remembered every single year and it's never happened thank God lol. I do care about Palestine but let's say I don't, what's your point? That the entire stealing of a country is ok?? You are disgusting.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

Like I said, telling me over and over and over again that you care about the Palestinians doesn't in any way prove that you really do care about them. Your comment about Jews proves you're just an antisemite.

I have made my point in this thread crystal clear. You simply choose to ignore it. The point is that no matter how bad you believe a country is there still must be lines that cannot be crossed in dealing with the problem posed by that country. You could say that because Israel stole Palestine all Israelis should be murdered. Or that all Israelis should be raped. Or that all Israelis should be tortured. Or that all Israelis should have their left arm cut off. But even you would recognize that any of those things would be wrong. Even you would recognize that there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed.

My point is that killing Israeli athletes at the Olympics is clearly one of those lines that shouldn't be crossed. My point is that no athletes from *ANY* country should be killed at the Olympics. THAT is the topic of this thread and you have done everything except for discussing that actual topic.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

Stealing other people's country and livelihoods like the Jews did is a line that should never be crossed, and that's that.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

First off, land disputes are far too common in the world to claim that stealing land is a line that should never be crossed. In contrast, there's only been one terrorist attack at the Olympics in all of history. Second, the dispute between Israelis and Palestinians has already started. Once it started, everyone should agree that there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed to resolve the dispute. Killing athletes at the Olympics is one of those lines.

China has occupied Tibet since 1950 and has violently killed hundreds of thousands of Tibetans since then. Do you believe that Chinese athletes deserve to be killed at the Olympics by Tibetan terrorists?

Russia has occupied Chechnya since 1999. Do you believe that Russian athletes deserve to be killed at the Olympics by Chechnyan terrorists?

Between half a million and a million Tutsis were slaughtered by Hutus in Rwanda in 1994. Do you believe that Hutu athletes deserve to be killed at the Olympics by Tutsi terrorists?

The Soviet Union starved to death millions of Ukrainians in the 1930s. Do you believe that Russian athletes deserve to be killed at the Olympics by Ukrainian terrorists?

Nazi Germany killed 6 million Jews during the Holocaust. Do you believe that German athletes deserve to be killed at the Olympics by Jewish terrorists?

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

So your argument is, other people did it so it's ok?? Well, people stopped doing that because it's wrong, only the Jews continue to do it. Germany went through hell after WWII for all they did. You need to fúck off, the Jews steal an entire country for themselves and you expect no consequence?? The Olympics was retaliation, and it was justified. Don't want to be killed? Don't steal other people's land.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

First off, how can you claim I'm wrong when you didn't even read my entire post? I just proved that the Jews are not the only people that continue to steal land. I pointed out that Communist China has stolen Tibet and that Russia is stealing eastern Ukraine. Now the question is do you believe that Chinese and Russian athletes deserve to be killed at the Olympics for it?

Second, my argument is not that anything Israel has done is okay. My argument is that it's not okay for Palestinians to respond by killing Israeli athletes at the Olympics. That's something that the rest of the world agrees with when it comes to the athletes of other countries, even other groups of people who have had their land stolen. What exactly is it about this very simple concept that is so exceedingly difficult for you to understand?

Do you have any clue how to argue against someone else's arguments without creating straw men? Don't tell me to *beep* off after you've done nothing but avoid my actual arguments, avoid inconvenient facts I bring up, be exceedingly dumb and dishonest, and bash Jews.

[–] LetThemEatCake01 8 years ago

I don't read your entire posts because they are the words of a mentally challenged imbecile.

Israel has no right to exist. Israel is an illegal colony and the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves any way they see fit, including terrorist attacks at the Olympics. And you are going on ignore because I am bored now.

[–] RustyShacklefurd 8 years ago

First off, if you don't read my entire post then how can you know I'm wrong about anything and how can you effectively rebut my argument if you don't even know what it is?

Second, you're the one who claims that Israel's existence is a worse tragedy than the Holocaust. You're the mentally challenged imbecile. Please stop projecting your problems onto me.

Third, you can claim all you want that Israel shouldn't exist but that still ignores the fact that the problem with Israel should not be resolved at the Olympics. I asked you whether the athletes of other countries that have stolen land deserve to be killed at the Olympics and you cowardly avoided answering that question. It's clear you know you're wrong about Israeli athletes deserving to be killed at the Olympics because you're completely unwilling to even try to make a logical argument in favor of your claim.

[–] rotterdam-87278 7 years ago

Ok well I'm not Jewish, I sympathise with the Palestinian people, I truly do. Though it's a LOT more complicated than Israel stealing their land. You could say I sympathise with both sides of the debate, to some degree.

However, this is not the time nor the place. This is a discussion relating to the fact that the Olympic games are not and never should be the correct time and place for such a debate to spill over into violence. It should be sacrosanct, because in a world so chock full of heinous criminality we need some stability, a safe space if you will. To keep us human, perhaps just to remind us that we are.

That was the OP's point I think. The murder of innocent civilians is always a horrendous thing, just like you they only get one and once it's gone, it is gone for good. However in this case it feels even more unjust, because of the setting. Which side of the war you fall on is utterly irrelevant, this kind of action cannot be condoned. By anyone.

[–] RickGee (258) 4 years ago

There was never a Palestine as a country of Palestinians. Palestinians came from multiple countries.

[–] 7 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rscottcarlson 7 years ago

I love watching people be idiots, fighting on the internet. It's very entertaining.

[–] Druff (1447) 4 years ago

Personally I don't find it particularly entertaining to listen to people defend Palestine and in the process make it so painfully obvious that they know NOTHING about the history of the region or the people who have lived there.

[–] degree7 (821) 4 years ago

Better than defending an ethno-racist-apartheid state that is illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza, while committing ethnic cleansing against the indigenous inhabitants. Attempting to defend Zionists just shows what an idiot someone is.

[–] Druff (1447) 4 years ago

Hey check it out guys, there's one of them now ^^^

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

^That

[–] Artisan (3464) 4 years ago

And since then the Olympics have become more and more politicized.

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

Not sure why but the Palestinians get a lot of sympathy despite their worldwide terrorist campaign. I think 9-11 showed the world what radical Islam was really about.

[–] dirkdiggler (118) 4 years ago

Palestine had nothing to do with 9/11, lol

[–] brux (14666) 4 years ago

Oh, is that what I said, or does that just show your trolling nature destroying your reading comprehension in live action?

[–] dirkdiggler (118) 4 years ago

Your attempt to conflate the two is just showing your stupidity in slow motion.

[–] MoviesStillSuck (254) 4 months ago

The Palestinians strike me as incredibly selfish and inhumane, so this really shouldn’t surprise most people.