MovieChat Forums > The Magic of Ordinary Days (2005) Discussion > Forgiving Herself ...

Forgiving Herself ...

posted 19 years ago by MissLucinda
16 replies | jump to latest

Livvy: Once you told me that this is a beginning. But how do you know, Ray? How do you know it's the beginning of something good?

Ray: I know. Because someday, you're bound to forgive yourself.

I've read the book a couple of times since the movie and will no doubt read it again and again. There's something that bothers me and I am trying to figure out what Ray really meant when he said that Livvy was bound to forgive herself someday. Forgive herself for what? Her past indiscretion with Edward?

Of course, Livvy wished she had never let herself be swept away by Edward. However, what bothered her the most was that she wouldn't be able to live her life as she had planned it. Throughout much of the book, she plans how she can at least finish her degree and teach and go on local digs. A child would prevent her from going to Egypt but she didn't want to give up on all her dreams completely.

So, I don't think it was a matter of forgiving herself or not.

In the book, it was clear that Livvy was not attracted to Ray. In fact, she would remind herself of his faults. However, Livvy didn't want to lead Ray on as Edward had lead her on. When Livvy would tell Ray he was a good man .... but she was not the right woman for him ... it was not because she had low self-esteem or felt unworthy because of the Edward incident. It was because Ray was the total opposite of Edward and there wasn't a mutual attraction.

So what did Livvy need to forgive of herself?

[–] futrlib 19 years ago

I think by the end of the book there was an attraction between them, not like the movie though. Livy fought so hard from feeling emotion after her mother and Edward. She finally gives in and allows herself to care for people and be cared for. In the book she does focus on his bad points, she does however allow herself to have feeling for him, its just not the lustful passion she had with Edward.

She is forgiving herself for the mistakes she has made. From leaving school and not going back, to her mother, the jelousy of her sisters, her affair with Edward, leaving her family, putting Ray into a marrage she didnt want to be in... it goes on. Basically it could be more of not blaming herself for everything that happened.

Just my thoughts.

[–] toving 19 years ago

What I took that to mean went back to her nightmare when she wanted to know how she could give her life away - to someone she didn't know - now I'm taking that to be Edward. That's what she needs to forgive herself for. You can also see her come to that realization in the movie when she's telling Flore basically not to make the mistake that she made because she was so lonely when her mother died.
While the book takes a little different approach - I think it gets to the same thing - she needs to forgive herself before she will really be able to move on with a new life for herself and Ray -

[–] castlestreet 19 years ago

I agree with toving that what Ray meant by "someday you're bound to forgive yourself" is Edward -- getting pregnant by Edward, trusting someone who let her down, doing something that led to giving up her career plans, embarrassing her family. Ray understood better than Livy herself that she was being really hard on herself.

I don't think, going back to the first post, that she was not attracted to Ray. In the beginning she wasn't, but one thing that makes the book a nice complement to the movie is that the book shows how Livy gradually grows from feeling completely indifferent about Ray to being conflicted (likes him but struggles with how they don't have shared interests) to being completely attracted to and in love with him. Toward the end of the book there are several different passages where Livy wants to hold Ray or kiss him before they actually do.

[–] MissLucinda 19 years ago

Thanks everyone for your comments!

I believe that Livvy would finally realize that *this* was the beginning of something good when she recognized the silver lining around an otherwise dark cloud. This is very similar to what Ray went through when he said that Daniel got to travel to Hawaii ... something he always wanted to do. Neither Ray nor Livvy could change the past as much as they wish they could. When Livvy realized that Ray was a silver lining, then she could embrace the goodness of her situation.

Livvy's real turning point was when she realized that Rose and Lorelei had deceived her into helping the German POWs escape. I think she felt she had the most in common with them: educated, career goals, forced away from their homes. To realize her friends had lied to her, her sisters had lied to her in telling her that their father asked about her, her father didn't live up to his committment to his wife by being absent during her illness, Edward ...

And then there is Ray who would never lie to her or leave her. How could she not love him?

I think it was interesting in the book when Livvy kept mentioning that Ray never covered his bald spot. To me that was symbolic. He had no wish to deceive .. he had nothing to hide.

[–] arod4ever 19 years ago

I wondered for a while how her inability to forgive herself could be the main stumbling block to accepting life with Ray, but then realized that Livy had been SO close to completing a master's degree - a major accomplishment in those days and I'm sure she over and over again was kicking herself for the mistake that caused her to throw it all away. But at some point we all tend to let go when we realize that regret won't change things back and we become more open to accepting what we are left with. In the DVD extras, the narrator wraps up with a quote that is along the lines of "make the best of what life gives you and find joy in the magic of ordinary days." I guess that says it all.

One other comment I wanted to make regarding the thanksgiving hand-holding -- when Ray and Livy stop by the camp beforehand to give the pie to her friends, Livy looks at Ray with this sort of pleased amazement when she hears Ray making an attempt to talk to Rose (asking her about California). One more attempt on his part to please her and I guess she appreciates it....

[–] rosemar 19 years ago

I never really thought about Livy feeling betrayed by Rose and Flori. But she must have! They put her in a terrible spot and she used her brain to get herself (and her friends) out of it. I often wonder what she would tell Ray about the incident. After the initial baby commotion wore off, wouldn't he ask "what were you burning in the yard when I got home?" She must have felt horrible bringing the POW to Ray's home (yes hers too, but the home he recieved from his parents and grandparents) and giving him the opportunity to take the truck - as well as Ray's clothes. It all worked out well in the end, but it had potential to blow up in her face.

[–] arod4ever 19 years ago

He must have asked her where the truck is for sure. I think that is the great thing about some of the Hallmark shows --- you do need to fill in the blanks on so many things. It does seem like Walter took Ray's suit and my guess is he doesn't have many (do you suppose the police got it back for him -- knowing how he feels about the Germans, he may have refused to wear it.)

[–] rosemar 19 years ago

Yes, how true! The truck! Where's the truck? You've got some 'splainin' to do!

I believe Walter did take Ray's only suit - the one they were married in. Not that up to that point it was a point of any sentimentality to Livy. Although I didn't think it was his best look - maybe he needed a new one anyway :) I imagine the police got it back but who'd want it, right? Can you imagine how he felt having had a German POW in his house with his very pregnant wife?; in his room, looking through his closet? Thank goodness it was only a movie - oh, forgive me - did I say "only a movie"? Shame on me :)

[–] MissLucinda 19 years ago

Didn't the sheriff bring Ray home when he found out Livvy was going to deliver? Or was that the doctor?

[–] rosemar 19 years ago

Ray arrived home with Hank - remember, Ray didn't know about the baby coming until she told him "getting ready for our baby". Then he picks her up and carries her into the house while yelling to Hank "our baby's coming!" and Hank replies "I'll go get Martha!". Since Livy had to go say goodbye or whatever it turned out to be, to the girls, Livy had the truck and Ray was with Hank. The doctor must have arrived after Ray and the police must have arrived afterwards to return the truck. I wonder why Livy set out on a snowy freezing day with such an empty tank of gas. Of course it worked out perfectly for the story because the POW was stranded and caught as a result, but what if she had continued on with Rose, Flori and Walter and got stuck with them?

[–] MissLucinda 19 years ago

Thanks for the reminder! I'm still kicking myself for not recording the movie ... but I had no idea I would want to watch it over and over again and even discuss it on a message board. Will have to buy the tape!!

I was under the impression that the sheriff must have gotten word to Ray somehow to get home ... otherwise why would Ray have been home so early with Hank?

I don't think Livy was planning on driving too far in the truck. Weren't they already driving when Florie asked if they could go to the butterfly spot near New Mexico? That was the first clue that something was amiss.

In the book especially, I was taken aback by how much Livy drove the truck even though Ray told her they were supposed to limit pleasure driving. It seems Livy was always driving to the internment camp or to go find butterflies.

I don't know what would have happened if the truck had not been almost empty that day. No more truck, I guess.

[–] jjr3929 19 years ago

I do not recall Ray's telling her about limiting travel in the truck.

I do recall someone's (the pastor's ?)saying that farmers have as much gasoline as they want. Food for the troops was as important as weapons.

I especially liked Livy's telephone call:

"This is Livy Singleton, Ray Singleton's wife," her first acknowledgement that, yes, she is HIS wife.

Miss Lucinda -- how do you exist without the DVD?

I, too, was surprised that she drove all over the place. I am guessing in those days, with the war raging, that a truck ride was not much of a threat.

Another part that surprised me -- with the prisoners of war in the area and the attitude toward the Japanese workers -- why did Ray leave his door wide open when he went to meet Livy?

Please be certain to visit skeetrfan's new site for "therapy."

[–] vicky_lc2001-1 10 years ago

He had a bald spot in the book? Was he much older and plainer looking in the book? Because Skeet Ulrich is the opppsite of that.

[–] drippan-1 10 years ago

Forgive herself for what? Her past indiscretion with Edward?

Ray gave us the answer to this:

Livy: I made a mistake.

Ray: Which mistake would that be? Being with him or marrying me?

These two mistakes are opposite of each other. Being with Edward and becoming pregnant was seen as a mistake after the fact. When she married Ray, she felt it was a mistake before the fact and went through with it anyways.

She has to forgive herself for being with Edward and forgive herself of treating a good man poorly. IMO, the second is the hardest to forgive yourself for.

[–] Rpdsf 9 years ago

I believe you hit the mark. I completely agree.

[–] Rpdsf 9 years ago

Some people here read too much into it and it's not that complicated so I think you hit the mark. I completely agree.