Oh My God! We lost the Baby!


...so what did they do with Baby Carrie? Why is there so much landscape in Kansas? The book said that there was nothing but grass as far as the eye could see, with the nearby stream sunken below the prairie, that couldn't been seen from the grassland.

If this had been a Disney animated version (with Mickey and Minnie Mouse as Laura's folks?), the character of the neighbor Edwards would have been played by Donald Duck.


I've had a wonderful evening - but this wasn't it.
-Groucho Marx

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I know... this version is disappointing in so many aspects.

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It's not like they can go back to the empty plains of Kansas where they settled. They shoot the movie where they can, silly. As far as Carrie goes, I honestly didn't even miss her. She doesn't exactly have a speaking role in the books at this point.

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[deleted]

Check board--Bringing New Life to Old Series

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Perhaps because, as far as I remember the *actual* history of the Ingalls' lives, Carrie wasn't born until they moved to Kansas.

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"Caroline Celestia Ingalls born Wednesday,
August 3rd, 1870, Montgomery Co., Kansas"

(cited after: William Anderson. Laura Ingalls Wilder - A Biography. HarperCollins, New York, 1992, page 38)

I hope that helps.

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[deleted]

I also missed baby Carrie....and to me, it doesn't matter the timeline of the *actual* Wilder family...they were making an adaptation of the books, and in the books, baby carrie was there from book one! Another thing I've always noticed, they NEVER get the right breed of dog to play Jack...he's supposed to be a brindle bull dog!....on the whole, I enjoyed it, and plan on watching the rest...

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I was wondering where the baby was too but like a previous post said maybe she wasn't born until they got to Kansas (I haven't read the books for YEARS) another thing I didn't like was it seemed like they got to Kansas too quickly I mean it is a 4 part movie and they got to Kansas in what an hour to an hour and a half? (I didn't pay much attention to the clock) Lastly in the beginning before they left for Kansas was Caroline wearing earrings? It looked like she was and that was something I wouldn't really expect from a pretty poor school teacher out in the middle of nowhere.

-Shannon

"You offend reason sir...I SHOULD LIKE TO OFFEND IT WITH YOU!"

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This is only a guess, but maybe a brindle bulldog doesn't train well for camera. Plus they've got two young children on set. How well does a bulldog do with strange children? Sorry, I really don't know the breed. It just seems that these adaptations always seem to choose one of those super-obedient, super-friendly dogs. I imagine there's a reason.

It does seem however, that Little House adaptations want to reflect who we are now (or whatever time period they're filmed in). The Michael Landon series basically reflected a 70's and 80's sensibility. The show covered themes such as obesity, drug addiction, racial prejudice, women's rights, etc. in ways that the 70's and 80's saw these issues instead of how the 1880's and 90's saw them. People spoke in very contemporary ways, had a modern sense of humor, and basically acted like people on Diff'rent Strokes and Eight is Enough except that they wore semi-period clothing and didn't have electrical appliances. The Beyond the Prairie special also seemed to amp up the romance in the courtship between Laura and Almanzo, the factor that is least emphasized in the books. And this series is no exception. The children seemed to be pulled off a soccer field in suburban America. Caroline is pretty and girlish. Charles has none of the character that Laura gives him in the books. He's the pioneer everyman. Laura's picture of her parents shows them as a contrast in temperment. She is plain, serious, pragmatic, educated and deeply religious. He's handsome, lively, curious, and self-taught. Maybe none of the adaptations would do well if they stayed true to the flavor of the book series. Would people turn off the tube as soon as they heard a "Jumping Jehosophat" or "By Jinks"? Maybe they would. I know someone who left a movie theater when Amy March proclaims, "Butter is such divinity!" in the film version of Little Women. So I don't hold out much hope for a really faithful adaptation to come out anytime soon.

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Kids on the set should not be a reason to use another breed of dog. Bulldogs had the viciousness bred out of them back in the 1800s after bullbaiting and other forms of dogfighting were banned in England in 1835. Bulldogs today are quite docile. Lots of people still think that bulldogs are mean, though. OK, Uga did bite that Auburn player a few years back, but that was an exception. The vast majority of bulldogs are downright sweet! and that includes Uga most of the time.

I don't know how trainable bulldogs are. I don't think they're stupid, but they may tend to be a tad stubborn. Today's bulldogs aren't quite as agile as they were in the 1800s. They have somewhat shorter legs and blockier bodies.

Brindle, btw, is just a coat color of bulldogs. Brindles have hairs that are ticked or striped with red or brown and black. I'm not sure, but I think Handsome Dan, Yale's mascot, might be a brindle-and-white bulldog.

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Fair enough. Next theory: bulldogs don't look good on camera? Not cute or friendly or sweet-looking enough. The dog has to have a personality. It's nearly a character.

Real-live case. Bill Clinton got Buddy the chocolate lab around a time when the Clinton image was stressing loyalty and friendless and broad appeal. Labs also photograph very well. But they didn't get a yellow lab because they photograph too well, potentially upstaging the president. Not kidding.

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Um...you do realize you just whined that they should have left in Carrie even though it's not true to what actually happened, and then in the same breath complained that the dog was the wrong breed, right?

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Who said I was whining, all I'm saying is I thought the books were accurate (which I guess they're not) and that the dog WAS of thw rong breed! Is there something wrong with that??

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I found it to be a way more faithful adaptation and at least these people seem real and I remember all these events (unlike just making up cheesy "everything is wonderful" stories>). I'll take it above and beyond anything that's been dished up before. Jeez. Cut some slack.

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You are right, Carrie wasn't born until they were living in Kansas. Watchers need to realize that the book Little House in the Big Woods takes place in two different time periods of Laura's life (before they moved to Kansas and before they moved the Walnut Grove, MN). However, Laura never mentions playing an organ in the middle of a river either, and if you've driven down to Kansas you'd know you do not seen scenery that was pictured in the show. There are many aspects that needed a bit of touch-ups (like where the heck are their bonnets? As I do believe that is a big part of the stories showing how Laura was way different than Mary; she didn't mind getting freckles because she wanted to see the world). Plus, isn't Laura a bit more blond than brunette? I've also heard complaints from fans that remark on Pa's brown eyes (they were really blue). But, all in all, I think they did a decent job. I could have used a bit more dialogue and some refinement on the music. Be sure to check walnutgrove.org (you can email them questions about the real Laura, the NBC series and the new ABC series)

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I agree. And the only reason why she 1) included Carrie in this story, and 2) stated that she was older than she really was, was because she wanted to keep a chronological order in her stories, so that the readers shouldn't have to read "Little House on the Prairie", which was the third book (if you include "Farmer Boy" as the second book) before "Little House in the Big Woods" which was Laura's first published book. Laura once said, "All I have told is true, but not the whole truth." An other thing that is worth thinking about is that Laura herself was too young to remember the trip to Kansas. What she told us in the book is based on what Ma, Pa and Mary told her later on in Laura's life, and on a lot of research (according to WIkipedia). Another thing worth mentioning is that in "Little House in the Big Woods" Laura says she's 6 years old, but in real life she was only 3.

Quote (from Wikipedia - Little House in the big Woods)
According to a letter from her daughter, Rose, to biographer William Anderson, the publisher had Laura change her age in the book because it seemed unrealistic for a three-year-old to have specific memories such as she wrote about. This is also why Laura portrayed herself as 6-7 years old in Little House on the Prairie, to be consistent with her already established chronology.
End quote.

And don't get me wrong. I love her books, I've read all of Laura's books (except for "Farmer Boy" which is in progress) and the extra one, "Old Town in the Green Groves", and I absolutely LOVE every single one of them, even if I've never been out of Europe. I also like the TV series from the 1970s/80s and this mini-series from 2005 (which has aired a couple of times in Norway).

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I can barely remember the books (my dad and I used to read them together when I was little) but it doesn't seem the same at all. Plus, why skip Little House in the Big Woods? I have to rebuy them and read them again.

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Laura Ingalls Wilder wrote about true things, but she changed a few things. Carrie wasn't born in the big woods. She was born on the prairie on the day that pa spent with Laura and Mary collecting rocks.
I do hope that this mini series is closer to the books than the old series.

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I like the mini series, but they aren't true to the books, heck the books aren't even that true to Laura Ingalls Wilder's real life. When Laura was a baby, I'm guessing about six or seven months old, Pa and Ma moved to Kansas from Wisconsin, but moved back to Wisconsin when the Government forced them out. In the books it say Laura was seven or eight years old, but she wasn't. When she was seven or eight, they did move back to the Kansas prairie, but it was a little different than before. Carrie, was born in Wisconsin after they moved back. They moved to Kansas the second time when Carrie was a baby. Then they moved to Minnesota when Laura was about ten and Carrie six or seven. Ma and Pa had a son named Charles Frederick, who died when he was ten months old. Grace was born a little while later in Minnesota. When Grace was a baby/toddler, then they moved to what is now South Dakota. Ma and Pa Ingalls lived there until they died. Mary went blind in Minnesota, but never married. Laura married Almanzo and had Rose, when Rose was seven they moved to Mansfield Missouri, where both Laura and Almanzo died in the early 1940's or so. Laura also had a son in South Dakota, but he died before he could be named. Rose went on to become a world traveller and married Gillette Lane and they had a son who also died. She never had anymore children after that. She and Lane divorced and Rose never remarried. She passed away in, I believe, the late 1960's, I could be wrong, but I think that's right. Okay, now my history lesson is done...

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Hello, I am 13 years old and I have read almost all of the little house books. This movie was a good one, but I find it didnt follow any of the books! Laura never saw any Indians, the dog was wrong, where was carrie, the whole family never caugh a fever and many other strange things. one of my friends said that the older TV shows, came before the books, and that they are not real. Im confused!

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Your friend is wrong about the series coming before the books. Her final book was published in 1971 post humously. The series began in 1974 and ran until 1983.

Its not like the Little House series and movie are the only things that dont follow the book. There are plenty of movies that only use one or two parts from a book or using only the main plot line and not the details... Great Example being the Harry Potter movies... And even the LOTR movies are missing little details... Like Tom Bombadill...

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And Laura did see many Indians while they lived in Indian territory. We found that part of the miniseries to be rather close to accurate.

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> I find it didnt follow any of the books! Laura never saw any Indians, the dog
> was wrong, where was carrie, the whole family never caugh a fever and many
> other strange things. one of my friends said that the older TV shows, came
> before the books, and that they are not real. Im confused!

If you have read "almost" all the books, you may have missed this one. Laura did see Indians, but only when they came to the cabin and when they left the area. She never went to the Indian camps when anyone was there. The dog was wrong; they never do Jack correctly. Incidentally, Jack was not a "bulldog" like the waddling dog you see at dog shows. He would be more correctly an American bulldog, like "Chance" in the HOMEWARD BOUND films. A purebred bulldog would never be able to endure what he did. Yes, they left Carrie out. Mrs. Scott was not like that. There was no siege in the Scotts' cabin (that seemed to come out of CADDIE WOODLAWN!). The family DID catch a fever. It was malaria, which was common in those days in the river bottoms, but they called it "fever'n'ague" (ague because you shook so hard due to the chills). They were cured by a Dr. Charles Tan, who was African American.

The television series basically used the names of the characters and took place in the town of Walnut Grove, near which the Ingalls lived in the book ON THE BANKS OF PLUM CREEK. There was no Albert Ingalls, James and Cassandra, Mr. Edwards never lived in Walnut Grove, got married, or adopted any kids. Mary went to a school for the blind for seven years and never was married.

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The malaria issue - pretty evident how they were ALL slapping mosquitos for a good 30 seconds of air time right before the fever hit.....

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Um...didn't she write the books? Yes....So I think she would have depicted her own life accurately!

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To All Posters:

You might want to check out this site. http://webpages.marshall.edu/~irby1/laura/frames.html
Laura made a few changes in the writing of her books.

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Dear Annielion!
Sorry to say, but Your message is absolutely and pure rubbish!!!

You wrote: "When Laura was a baby, I'm guessing about six or seven months old, Pa and Ma moved to Kansas from Wisconsin..."
Comment: The Ingalls' moved from Wisconsin to Kansas when Laura was about two years.

You wrote: "Carrie, was born in Wisconsin after they moved back."
Comment: Carrie was born in Kansas.

You wrote: "When she was seven or eight, they did move back to the Kansas prairie, but it was a little different than before."
Comment: No they did not. They never came back to Kansas, actually not any closer to Kansas than Dakota!

You wrote: "They moved to Kansas the second time when Carrie was a baby. Then they moved to Minnesota when Laura was about ten and Carrie six or seven."
Comment: Still they did not! They went straight to Walnut Grove, Minnesota after they left Wisconsin for the second time. Laura is now seven, and Carrie three.

You wrote: "Grace was born a little while later in Minnesota."
Comment: No she did not. Grace was born in Burr Oak, Iowa, after they left Walnut Grove, Minnesota for the first time. Now Laura is ten.

You wrote: "both Laura and Almanzo died in the early 1940's or so."
Comment: Once again: NO NO NO!!! Almanzo died 1949, and Laura 1957!

...the worst history lesson ever heard!!! Why don't you check out these maps: www.kolumbus.fi/pienitalopreerialla/talotjamatkat/muutot.htm. The first map shows Laura's travels before, and the second map shows Laura's travels after getting married.


baba
/Finland
www.kolumbus.fi/pienitalopreerialla

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That's really informative Annielion, thanks, I'm really interested in hearing the real story of the Ingalls family. But I have heard a lot of people say that Carrie was born in the Kansas little house, on the day that Mary and Laura went to the old Indian camp with Pa and collected beads. Where did you hear that she was born in Wisconsin?

Also, I have bever heard before that they lived in Kansas twice before settling on Plum Creek for a few years. Don't get me wrong, I'm not contradicting you, but I'd really like to know where you found all this out from so I can build a better picture of their lives in my head. Can you help me out?

http://www.fanfiction.net/~kaeti

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annielion, you are so way off with your history.

thanks baba smith for providing the correct info!

Pre-Rumrunner

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