This movie is 8.6 ???!?!?!?

blah blah blah

Yeh jeena bhi koi jeena hai lallu!

Well here comes another sorry sould from the south. Dude, people in this board are used to people like you. GO through all the threads and you will get an answer.

This whole numbers game is a worthless exercise. Even the films you mention are hardly on a par. North by Northwest, Goodfellas and Dr Strangelove are enjoyable films and justly famous but they are very lightweight efforts compared with Citizen Kane (or, say, the Apu Trilogy, Seven Samourai, Le Charme Discret de la Bourgeoisie, Aguirre Der Zorn Gottes....)

Rang de Basanti is a good film but obviously it is not destined to be a great classic of the cinema. Nevertheless it is probably as good as any other film one is likely to see in 2006 and rather better than the other Hindi films I have seen this year or indeed than any other Indian films I have seen this year. US and English films I have almost given up on entirely and the French crop of films has not been very promising so far. Films from elsewhere in the world tend to reach me rather more slowly...

In general, however, I am inclined to agree about modern Hindi films. Unlike most contributors, I have not a drop of Indian blood and therefore am in no sense parti pris. But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that southern Indian films nowadays (taking them overall) have more vigour and originality and that (again in general) they have more realistic content, more genuine social context and address more real social issues. On the other hand I am not sure it is the north-south divide that is important but rather the divide between Bollywood and regional film-making throughout India.

The reason I think is not hard to find. Hindi films are dominated by a small circle of powerful producers; they seem to ape the style and content of American films more and more each year (recent offerings for instance by the Bhatt bothers or Gopal Varma) and are fairly blatantly increasingly playing for a core audience based not in India but in the United States (albeit of Indian origin). They are also tending to conform increasingly to a sort of kitsch caricature that has become the 'image' (and hence the selling-point) of Indian films in the West (and NRIs are as guilty in this respect as anyone else).

As a great lover of Indian cinema (my shelves bulge with Hindi classics from the fifties and sixties or from the 'new cinema' period of the seventies and eighties) I find this very sad to observe. I think it is a very very sorry lookout for Hindi films and, as Tamil and Malayalam films (and those in other regional languages - not necessarily southern) become more widely known and better distributed, Bollywood risks looking by comparison as stale and predictable and remote from real life as Hollywood itself.

Damn right.

If a bollywood movie has no ITEM SONG and has few SERIOUS dialogs then...

1.It qualifies for Oscar automatically.

2.Its not a masala film but a "for classes".

3.Must be in imdb top 250 or atleast 100.

4.It shud swap all Indian movie awards that year if there is no another film nominated which casts Shahrukh,Amitabh,Rani,Abhishek,Preity Zinta which is probably derected by some Johar or Chopra.

Sanjeev, I'll take some of ur sentences and we'll try to debate on them

1) "And i found it really dumb that this movie, doesn't get technical about anything at any point"

Whats ur point?


2) "I can't believe that you guys think that this movie is at par with Goodfellas and Momento and Citizen Kane and Dr. Strangelove and North by Northwest."

What's so hard to believe? That this movie is rated so high. I'm not a fan of Star Wars or LOTR but they are rated so high. I'm a huge David Lynch fan, but Mullholland Dr. (my and my cult's fav. all time film) is barely 249 here.
Also, At IMDB, Usual Suspects is better than Rashomon, Indiana Jones is better than Lawrence of Arabia etc. and do u think Vertigo is the best Hitchcock film- better than even Psycho, so my advice- deal with it as its a matter of personal choice.

BTW, its 'Memento' not 'Momento'- have u seen Nolan's film or r u just mentioning it for the sake of it


3) "Q: So whats a 'Great' Hindi Movie ?
A: Any hindi movie that deviates from the norm. "

Is it ur opinion or sarcasm? I'd prefer if it is the latter coz. I hated 'Being Cyrus' but some people loved it as sometimes, the most fashionable thing to do is to embrace a different film 'just becoz.' its that- 'different'. But I agree, a different story also needs to be told well and shouldn't merit concessions coz. its offbeat
So, in that sense, RDB isn't JUST a great story- it works on four levels-

a) groung breaking editing- the way past and present are woven is impeccable though I admit not as good as 'Memento' what with the latter's non chronological way of story teling as also seen later in '21 grams'
b) music- first film in a long time where songs (albeit great but straightforward) are not 'ad libbed' by the actors thereby keeping the 'realism' intact
c) climax- I think its always better to have an unconventional ending which people either love or hate (ala 'Mullholland Drive', 'The Third Man', 'Rashomon', 'Fire Walk with me', 'Psycho', 'The way we were', 'Requiem for a dream', 'Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind', etc ) than a conventional ending
d) cinematography- best in a long time but not frivolously indulgent as in 'One Hour Photo', 'Taal', 'Cape Fear' etc.
e) cast- less no. of stars helped in conveying the message unobtrusively

RDB's a 7.5/10 for me but I can understand when it gets 8.6 and I stand corrected on the higher side, not lower side of my score. For my money, RDB's better than Black coz. of the reason mentioned by others already (regarding the originality of the work)


4) "Maybe its because the Bollywood movie industry never really tried to expand its horizons"

Assumption: Bollywood means Mumbai film industry and not mainstream films only
Are u sure? Have u seen the new wave cinema of Shyam Benegal, Govind Nihalani, Sai Paranjpe and the works of Gulzar, in the 70s and 80s


5) "But I do have seen some really good non-stereotypical movies from the south."

The buck doesn't stop there. I believe men like Satyajit Ray, Mrinal Sen, Ritwik Ghatak were not bad, were they? They made what I call India's version of classic noir' . The bunch was perhaps as talented as Singeetham, Mani Ratnam, Adoor Gopalkrishnan, etc. ? (Sorry I haven't seen more from south)


6)"But that means more hindi movies in the Top 250 ?!? :O Guess you could say that I'm torn."

Why r u torn? R u ashamed at being an Indian? If u r, we r ashamed of u and ur like. Wouldn't u like to see a Pushpak, Apu Trilogy, Anand, Do Bigha Zameen, Sholay, Ijaazat, Manthan or even an RDB in the top 250? (Coz. they all deserve a place there)


PS: All said and done, Kamal Hassan was south's biggest gift to Bollywood

sorry for being offtopic but who was Sukhdev in RDB... I think I missed him...

well i think its a great movie.its has its strenghts as well (minor) flaws.
i didnt agreed wid d ending.neways its d best movie i hav seen this year, but my all time fav movie is DIL CHAHTA HAI. a classic 9.5 / 10 as nobody is perfect

When you think of Hindi movies, you usually compare them with other Hindi movies and not with those from Hollywood. In terms of Bollywood films, Rang De Basanti was brilliant and deserves that 8.6. It's not about any movie that deviates from the norm, because in that case, films like Chandni Bar and Aks (admit it, they were "different") would've been appreciated a lot more at IMDb.

And I'm pretty confident that South Indian movies cannot top Bollywood, especially in terms of quality. It's not only about a good plot or good actors.. everything counts here. Gimme a South Indian movie with such an outstanding camera work and editing, such a striking cinematography, such talented actors, all intertwined with an intriguing and original plot... gimme a movie with all of that and then I might as well belive you. 'Til then, deal with the fact that RDB is an 8.6 and deserves it.

BTW, it's Memento and not Momento. And apparently Citizen Kane is a big deal.. but to be honest it's too overrated. And if you dig that then I can't say much for your "great" movie taste.