MovieChat Forums > L'empire des loups (2005) Discussion > Please enlighten me - various questions ...

Please enlighten me - various questions about the plot


Okay... so many "sub-stories" haven'T been explained enough in the movie, maybe you understood them better than me and can explain it to me.

1. when anna was imprisoned first, the secretary told the inspector she was talking about "4 moons".
Question 1: What are the 4 moons, and what role do the play in the movie?
Question 2: if they have no significance, why did they even mention it?

2. Jean Reno has the same necklace as that skinny turkish killer. Are the members of the same organization? Reno isn't turkish at all, so why would he be in that organization?

3. Why did they even add the whole mind-erasing story to the movie? Does it have any meaning or is it just to make the movie longer?

4. What part do the drugs take in the movie?

5. Why does the turkish killer kill the other turkish workers, when he actually knows how anna looks like (the secretary had no problem in recognizing her face, and that was prior to that mind-influencing thing).

6. Why does anna (an illegal turkish immigrant) understand french (or whichever language) and speak fluently?

7. What part does the leader of the organization have? Is it ever explained? What happened in Annas childhood?

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Based on my own interpretation of the crappy plot - let me try to answer your questions:

1. Obviously the 4 moons seem to be associated to the "empire des loups" gang - though what it means is not explained at all in the movie.

2. Reno is not turkish, but considering that he has dark mediterranean looks, I supposed it could be assumed that his character is. Alternatively, we could simply assume that he has worked so long as a police officer on turkish related matters that he might have infiltrated the gang at some point or another.

3. That is a great question... Obviously they either started with the mind erasing bit and didnt know how to finish off the movie - or the other way round. Regardless this is bad patchwork. I havent read the original book but obviously the author is guilty of the same mistake.

4. Same answer as 3

5. Well in this case the plastic surgery seems to have taken place in anna's life well beyond the events in the movie. I dont recall any suggestion that the killer recognised her before they realised that she had changed her face.

6. Very powerful mind influencing drugs? (please give me some of those before my next exam) or just an excuse to justify the fact that this is a french movie in the first place? more bad writing here.

7. Big gang lord who trained her to become the hard-woman that she is.

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Please read the book. It's a great book and
explains everything. It ha sbeen a while I read it
so I forgot the details.

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The 4 moons explained.
Did anyone notice the open necklace? They only showed it for an instant but it had 4 dots around a star. Moons?

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You can find answer to your questions in the book. The film is an insult to a great work of fiction. Still, I'll give you the answers but if you are planning to read to book then dont proceed:

1- 4 moons represent the Turkish mafia who call themselves Golden Crescent. 3 moons represent the moons on the traditional Turkish flag -not the present-, the 4th moon, boss Ismail Kutsi adds as their symbol representing the Golden Crescent. Sema, having lost her memory, visualizes the 4 moons in her dreams, a memory of her past.

2- Worst thing about the film is that it takes a "noir" ending and turns it into a Hollywood kind of crap. In the book, Schiffer -J.Reno in the film- is a shady character, and you have no idea about his true color until the end. Schiffer is Golden Crescent's man in France, he has close relations with Turks, that's probably how he got the job.

3- Mind erasing is a separete story in the book which later eventually connects with the other. The only connection between two stories is Sema, the main character.

4- Sema is actually a drug courier for the Golden Crescent, in her last job, a major job that consists Uzbeks, Russians and Turks, she decides to feck the organization and runs away with the package. Ismail Kutsi sends after her his men, Grey Wolves.

5- Sema goes through estetic surgery, her new face isn't known by the Turkish mafia until they reach the surgent responsible for her operation, that's how they find out about her new face. After not being able to find her, they probably assumed she must went through surgery and started looking for surgents -doing illegal business- in paris.

6- Sema knows french because of her job as a drug courier, she is the mafia's contact in france.

7- Ismail Kutsi, leader of Golden Crescent, is an ultra-nationalist, an idealist and a businessman. He journeys throughout Turkey and takes poor village children under his custody. Of course he gets them trained in the way he wishes them to be, as brainwashed warriors ready to serve him and the national cause. Sema is one of those village children.


Mother Asia

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^^^all that makes it sound like that movie could have been really good. ohh well.

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Jean Christophe Grange writted the screenplay himself... so you´re a bit contradictory in your point don´t you think? Is the work of the same auteur

I do agree with you in the last part of the point 2.

But you see my friend who hasn´t read the book understood the hole points as you mentioned them by just seeing the movie... Conclusion: People who don´t understand this movie without previously read the book are dumb-ass

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I see that you understand the movie. And I really need some summary. Could you please answer a few more questions? ;) I really don't understand:
-why did they remove anna's memory? It's another thread but i still don't get it
-And what about those murders? Grey Wolves commited them to find Anna? Why did they massacre the victims?
-Was Schiffer sent to find anna?
-Why did they went to Turkey? What for?
-What about this crazy "killer-artist" at the end of the movie? He was murdering women to make them look like that face statue?

SkyPawel

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Ok

- They didn't remove Anna's memory. She already lost it when the French police found her. She was then illegaly used by French Defence Ministry for a dark experiment. Which is to implant false memories in someone's mind, they would then use such indivduals for infiltrating criminal groups or terrorist organizations. Note that since Anna already lost her memory when she was found, the French knew nothing about who she is neither.

- Grey Wolves didn't commit the murder, their leader Azer Akarca did. Not for any particular reason, he is a sadist obsessed with the Nemrut statues (http://www.allaboutturkey.com/highres/photos/nemrut.jpg), his "artistic" inspiration for mutilating the faces of his victims.

-In the book Schiffer is a dark ex-cop. Later in the story it is revealed he is actually Golden Crescent's (Turkish mafia) contact in France. He cooperates with Sema (later Anna after she lost her memory) in a major drug delivery to France. When Sema runs away with the package, he knows the Wolves will come after him too, that's why he hides in a police retirement house. But until the end of story, he too doesnt know Anna is Sema, so it is a big coincidence.

-They went to Turkey because Sema/Anna knew they would come after her to the end of the world so she probably wanted to go down taking her revenge, killing Ismail Kutsi, who stole from her, her life.

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

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Everything was quite clear in the movie, except for the 4 moons thing which isn't explained anywhere...really, there's nothing too difficult to understand, i guess a lot of things went lost in translation; i've watched it in original language and pretty much all of the questions you ask are answered in the movie.

- They didn't remove Anna's memory. She already lost it when the French police found her.

Uhm...no ? She was just in shock when the police first finds her during a grey wolves attack to some turkish underground factory.

Anna was a member of turkish mafia in Paris, specifically a drug courier.
One day she decides to change her life, turns against the turkish mafia, hides the drug and uses the money to have her face changed.
Grey wolves start to look for her:

- Grey Wolves didn't commit the murder, their leader Azer Akarca did. Not for any particular reason, he is a sadist obsessed with the Nemrut statues (http://www.allaboutturkey.com/highres/photos/nemrut.jpg), his "artistic" inspiration for mutilating the faces of his victims.

Of course there's a reason. Grey Wolves can't find Anna/Sema and they assume she had her face slightly changed; Azer starts killing all turkish girls who look like Sema (all murdered girls look almost the same and they all resemble her, it's mentioned in the movie that grey wolves made 3 mistakes before finding Anna). When grey wolves are close to finding Anna (i think they broke in some turkish underground factory or something, where Anna was working and set the place on fire or something, don't remember) the police arrives and saves the girl, who's then interrogated as a witness before agents of the anti-terroristic division carry her away to use for their experiments: which consist in erasing a person's memory, give them a new identity and have him/her enter a terroristic organizations to help the police.
She's the perfect specimen, since she's turkish, has no documents and basically no identity in paris: little did the police know that she was actually a member of the turkish mafia.

2. Jean Reno has the same necklace as that skinny turkish killer. Are the members of the same organization? Reno isn't turkish at all, so why would he be in that organization?

Jean Reno is a member of the organization. His character is probably turkish or he made turkish mafia believe he is. What isn't clear is if Reno is an underground agent working as a police contact inside the organization or if he too is a former member who's decided to turn against the turkish mafia.

3. Why did they even add the whole mind-erasing story to the movie? Does it have any meaning or is it just to make the movie longer?

Well...It's part of the story.
If Sema's memory wasn't erased and she wasn't given a new identity by the police, grey wolves would probably have found her earlier and a lot of things in the movie wouldn't have happened.

4. What part do the drugs take in the movie?

Sema was a drug courier for the turkish mafia...When she recovers from amnesia she goes looking for the drug; not for the drug itself, probably because she needs the weapons she's hidden with it to take revenge on the organization.

5. Why does the turkish killer kill the other turkish workers, when he actually knows how anna looks like (the secretary had no problem in recognizing her face, and that was prior to that mind-influencing thing).

No, they don't know exactly what Anna looks like after she has disappeared.
They assume she had her face changed, so they start looking for and killing all turkish women who could resemble her. The turkish killer keeps going to the 'patisserie' where Anna works to understand if it could really be her; if he knew for sure, he would have killed her right away. Well, not that he has problems killing girls he's not even sure about, but maybe he's just more careful with Anna, because she seems to be a french citizen, not a turkish illegal immigrant no one knows about.

What secretary ??

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to clear up the fact that the "secretary" (I assume you mean the woman with the police reports.. I doubt she's a secretary, though) recognized the sketch of Anna/Sema when the cop showed it to her.. Sema had her face changed *before* she had her mind erased. She was the perfect person to experiment on because
#1 she is presumed to be an illegal Turkish immagrant, and therefore presumed to have no contacts in Paris,
#2 she is in shock, making it easy to take advantage of her long enough to erase her memory,
#3 she has just had surgery to modify her face, meaning that even if she has contacts, no one will recognize her (though, admittedly, when they took her & experimented on her, they did not know if anyone knew that she had gotten the surgery), and
#4 supposedly she had a very mutable mind (though that's gained from dialogue in the movie, not gleaned intuitively).
I'm not sure if these things are less clear in the English version? I watched it in French with English subtitles (only because my boyfriend does not understand French), and it all made sense to me.. the only thing that I really "missed" was the four moons thing.. and that was until I realized that the necklaces that members carried had four moons as a symbol of the organization.
my only question is.. to the person that said that Anna muttered about 4 moons because her dreams were bringing her memory back to her...
you *do* realize that she was muttering about 4 moons *before* they erased her memory.. meaning that she was just in a severe state of shock, having decided to turn against this powerful organization, doing nothing to hide who she is besides altering her appearance (her general face shape still remains the same, really).. so she was "leaking" this tidbit of information.. that she's connected to this organization that uses 4 moons as their symbol. She was probably paranoid that they would find her, even as she sat in the police station.

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just one small detail on your nr. 3: this doesn't mean that she's "the perfect person to experiment on", there is only one out of the whole group of frenchmen who ran the experiment on her that actually knows she's had surgery, which would be the doctor she then gets to give her back her memory - he doesn't tell anyone, though, coz he's actually afraid they'd have to quit! just for the record.

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The doctor in the movie says that when he saw Anna had had plastic surgery he continued anyway because it was such important work. The implication is that they should have chosen another subject - which is right. She obviously wasn't just another illegal immigrant. She obviously had money and some issue of some kind in her past - exactly the sort of person they didn't want.

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Read the book. Same name. It's quite brillant, not as "hole-y" - all of this is explained there. I imagine it would have been impossible to recreate the complexity of the plot without leaving as many holes as you've described. The only thing that didn't ring so well for me was the epilogue, which seemed trite compared to the rest.

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