Yes, they didn't resort to that stereotype in this film!
Anyone know how that style got started??
I know I read it someplace once, and I'm thinking that maybe it was something
a 19th c. costume designer dreamed up for a Wagnerian opera
Beware the dreamers of the day, for they would enact their dreams with open eyes-Lawrence of Arabia
I think it goes back much further to christian monks looking to generate negative associations with them, as vikings were known to sack monasteries during raids. The irony is that, at the time, vikings were far more sophisticated and clean than other northern European groups. One monk's description chides their idolatry and hedonism as they tend to be overly concerned with their appearance, wont to run ivory combs trough their hair and beards and are overly prone to bathing. It calls them vain for bathing so often. HA HA.
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KNOWN to? Hell they loved it doing it!
In Glendalough ,Ireland, and by several of the early churches and monasteries I saw there, they had round towers, whose entrances were through a window on the 2nd or 3rd floor. When raiders wee coming, they climbed in and pulled the ladder up after themselves.
Interesting about their cleanliness-
In Ingmar Bergman's "Virgin Spring" (1960), set in 14th c. Sweden, Max Von Sydow takes a ritual steambath, flogging himself with birch branches, before he goes out to kill the men who murdered and raped his daughter. ( remade as "The Last House on the Left", 1972, Wes Craven).
Don't know if that makes'em more SOPHISTICATED, though...
Scottish (I think) prayer:
"Lord save us from the fury of the Vikings.."
Beware the dreamers of the day, for they would enact their dreams with open eyes-Lawrence of Arabia
The horns were mad popular by the likes of Wagner but are actually a Germanic tradition from before the Norse era (horned helmets have been found in many places in the Germanic and Celtic world) and Gods and heroes were portrayed as having horned helmets (see Ingwi and Woden).
The wings are not really that traditional and are generally Celtic, but Germans did adopt Celtic arms and armour and fashion early on in their history so it is believable that a Germanic chieftan in the ancient world would were them.
But yes, Vikings did not wear horns.
"Jai Guru Deva, Om"
"Don't know if that makes'em more SOPHISTICATED, though...
Scottish (I think) prayer:
"Lord save us from the fury of the Vikings.." "
No, it is English. It was possible from the Northumberia (I believe it was due to the raid on Lindisfarne) which did include eastern lowland Scotland up to the Firth of Forth.
"Jai Guru Deva, Om"
I say more sophisticated because they had a flourishing literature (eddas and sagas, etc.) at a time when few others did, and their technology was about a century ahead of its time. No one had ever thought to construct ships quite like theirs.
shareThe Eddas and Sagas were not written until the 13th and 14th centuries. However, you're right about the ships. The Norse invented the deep keel which allowed them to sail against the wind. The Nordic people also invented lawyers, women had equal rights (until Christianity came along), skiing, and until Shaggy Harald came along in Norway, each fylke/jarldom elected it's kings. Heredity kingship may have started sooner in Sweden, and definitely did in Denmark.
shareNo, that prayer was not written until the 19th century.
shareQuite emblematic of that stereotype is the Oseberg tapestry, here for example:
http://www.sjolander.com/viking/museum/m/l/horned.jpg
The character in the upper left-hand corner wears a huge horned helmet... except it is now clear to Oseberg specialists that this part of the tapestry was "restored" in the early 20th century.
There's an excellent site about the Oseberg finds here:
http://www.forest.gen.nz/Medieval/articles/Oseberg/textiles/TEXTILE.HTM
You can see what the tapestry looked like before it was patched up.
I'm a Sidekick and proud of it.
But there are a few examples of horned helmeted figures from Scandinavia, aren't there?
I think that they are bronze age though, a fair bit pre-viking.
I can't seem to find an example online right now though....
We gotta go to the crappy town where I'm a hero!
Yes, Harvey, there are horned helmet from Scandinavian during the pre-Viking era (http://www.guderoggrave.dk/img/10/26-27/1027774.jpg). Actually there are depictions of Germanic heroes and Gods with horns throughout the Germanic world; the Sutton Hoo helmet has horned heroes (reconstruction: http://lh5.ggpht.com/_U8B2oiUBbf8/SEy_Njw2nkI/AAAAAAAAAqA/Lq-4hGbnvWk/871+British+Museum,+Sutton+Hoo+helmet,+reproduction.JPG).
"Jai Guru Deva, Om"
Thanks KingA,
Those are great pics. That's the best pic of the Sutton Hoo helmet I've seen online.
So horned vikings are a possiblility, speculation maybe, but not a proven fact.
And if there were horned helmets they were likely ceremonial, and not all that common, would you say?
We gotta go to the crappy town where I'm a hero!
No problem Harvey, I am just glad to be of use.
Well, I don't think they were used at all in the Viking era but it isn't impossible that a priest or a warrior would wear one on a special occassion.
I wouldn't say that horned-helmet vikings are very possible as we have no finds or evidence for them but horned-helmet Nordic people did exist in earlier eras and horned helmets were commonly used to denote great heroes and gods during atleast the migration era (as the Sutton Hoo helmet from England attests) yes, horns did appear in the Germanic world early on. Some migration people may have still had them on the continent; I can happily imagine some Goths wearing something like a horned helmet when they were a nomadic plains people.
I have no problem with the depiction of Germanic heroes and gods wearing horned helmets in films based on say, the Sigemund legend and, if they went a more mythological rather than historical route, even Beowulf if they made it stylized yet believable like many productions of the Wagnerian operas or Arthur Rackham's art work based upon the Waelsing tales.
"Jai Guru Deva, Om"
I saw a documentry on Vikings on the history channal a few years ago, and it stated that vikings never wore horned helmets in battle or lootings ect, as the horns on the helmets would of made it inpracticle for fighting (especially from overhead strikes), and it would of made it inpracticle for all being crammed into a longship together.
Its believed that vikings may of wore horned helmets when doing a certain ritual, but never in battle. This is just one of the common historical misconceptions that exist out there, just like with the fire of london stopping the great plauge.
Thank Wagner for his operas which brings back the viking from oblivion!
sharePersonally, I like it where depictions of the Norse are going with more realism than fantasy. It goes to show that despite being considered barbarians, they are actually a pretty sophisticated people who aren't remotely close to being dim-witted savages.
Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger