the french again


I noticed, hard not to.., that once again the History is presented in a way to minimise the role of french army in the WWII. I know the french did loose in 1940. I know Vichy did collaborate during several years but it cannot be said all french were part of this disgrace, it cannot be said they were all cowards or De Gaulle some kind of lunatic selfish actor like in this movie. there was a french army still fighting during these years, even with only few men, especially in north africa and inside France. "loosing a battle is not loosing the war", did De Gaulle say, and I think he was right.
I believe the wind of Irak makes Hollywood look at History with strange eyes, I should say "Liberty fries" eyes....
Happy holiday to you all and God bless America

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Well the Yanks landed opposed in North Africa - Operation Torch, against French forces. The British launched an invasion in 1943 in Madagascar, against the French forces. French aircraft regularly bombed Gibraltar and Malta. Armed French troops continuied the occupation of Vietnam (French Indochina) throughout WW2 under Japanese command. French Jews were rounded up by French police and sent to German extermination camps.

The French resistance has a mixed record at best, French forces combat performance against the German advance was simply pathetic.

Yes a few French did fight well with the Allied forces, there were French Commmandos and Frenchmen serving with the British SAS. However as a nation I dont think they have much to be proud of vis a vis WW2, the bulk of the nation were candidly collaborating bastards.

Their post WW2 record is hardly commendable either, but that's another story.

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well, with this flow of ....
just one thing has to be said, as I don't know why the shoah suddenly appears, which is that the lowest rate of deportation in Europe was in France due to help given to jews by the french people and especially the french catholic church.
I believe polish would have appreciated this kind of help...
this help they had in august 1939, when two countries said "no" to Hitler when he invaded Poland. It is true that these two countries got one of the biggest defeat they ever got, the safe of great britain due to the channel island, thank God for that.because It also has to be said a big country waited to be attacked in november 1941 to enter the war. the brittons and russians later stayed alone for long years.

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Delete your Post... Please!!!

Or at least edit it, so that it makes sense.

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When the Japanese attacked Hawaii, on December 7th, 1941, the Russians were not in the war for long years, as you say. They were in the war for six months, and only after they had been attacked by the Germans.

By the way, you seem to forget USSR attacked Poland in 1939, and it was not to deliver it from the Germans but to take its chunk of this unlucky country.

However, I agree with you when you suggest the French in general are unfairly depicted in Ike : Countdown to D-Day.

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> Their post WW2 record is hardly commendable either,
> but that's another story.

Too right !
Let's see, the constant Nuclear testing with the toy "Force Wrappe", destroying generations of Polynesians (and others). Why don't they do that at The Sorbonne ? :-)

The sickening murder on The Rainbow Warrior, the DST agents responsable transferred from New Zealand back to France because "one had a cold" (and walked free of course). The numerous crimes/obstruction of Justice committed against the New Zealand government at that time.

I'm from Belgium originally, and like many French things.
I've lived in France for about 6 months (near Montreal, Carcasonne), and all around France a bit, but in the North they really are pig headed and arrogant.
Same, for that matter, in the South of Belgium (Wallon).

This does NOT account for all French people of course, I have dear friends there, but it covers a lot more of 'em than I'd like to.

"Du vin, du pain, Boursin" :-)

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My father's ancestors are from Belgium. I would like to go there and find their records. Would you perhaps know any Charliers or Tournays?

:0)

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Hmmm,

That sounds they might have been 'Wallon" (French speaking from south of Belgium). Never heard of anyone like that though... Sorry I couldn;t help.

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Rainbow Warrior has nothing to do with military matters, it was French intelligence. The photographer who died was not "murdered", he returned to a sinking ship and suffered a logical fate for that poor decision. The saboteurs used two charges, one to drive people from the ship, and a second larger charge to sink it. So they took precautions against people being injured. I believe that the French attack on the Rainbow Warrior was justified, as Greenpeace is a terrorist organisation and was a direct threat to French national security.

I agree that the French may be arrogant. But at least they do not commit mass murder with terrorist drones, like the Americans do.

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Dear Mr. Nickg-11,

The Yanks, as you call them, could hardly expect to see the French fighting on each side, as the French had did in Senegal in 1940, or in Syria in 1941. Before the landing in North Africa, General Eisenhower, following Washington’s policy, DID NOT even warn De Gaulle and his Free French.

The British launched an invasion in 1943 in Madagascar, against the French forces. Yes. And the question is : should it be a priority in this war? Was the French force in Madagascar a threat ? By the way, the British later entrusted Madagascar to Free French administrators. Churchill and his people could distinguish their Allies and their Enemies among the French. It is not obvious such a quality still exists on IMDB forum.

French aircraft regularly bombed Gibraltar and Malta. What are you speaking about ? I never heard about that, frankly. Give me your sources on those episodes and I will thank you. I could imagine Vichy Air Force attacked Gibraltar at the moment of Operation Torch. But Malta ? From where aircrafts were taking off ? Do you want to talk about the aircrafts themselves ? Then you could say French aircrafts were used on both sides during the World War II. There are also some American corporations who sold fuel and various products to the two sides. I don't think it is enough to condamn entire nations. Do you ?

Armed French troops continuied the occupation of Vietnam (French Indochina) throughout WW2 under Japanese command. Yes, in Indochina, French troops obeyed Vichy Government, but they followed De Gaulle Government in some other places, in black Africa. What does it add to your indictment ?

French Jews were rounded up by French police and sent to German extermination camps. It is true and it is a crime that is not forgotten. Moreover, if we are not using that fact only to bash our favorite bastards, we should not forget Jews in Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, and in a couple of other countries, were persecuted and often deported by local Nazis and collaborators, notably in the police. The United States of America entered into the war only after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, more than two years after the invasion of Poland by the Germans and the Russians. Would this behavior be a fair example of America’s bravery ? Be serious.

At the bottom line of your bad-nation and good-nation view on history, if the bulk of a nation is automatically “collaborating bastards” every time the bulk of a nation is not exclusively composed of Resistance heroes and soldiers winning battles again Nazi Germany, there is a huge crowd with the French, and a lot of nations should live in the shame, don’t you think ? Is it a reasonable expectation and a useful program for the human kind ?

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You will note that every time the Vichy government fought the Allies, it was because the Allies invaded Vichy territory. The terms of the armistice required that French forces throughout the empire fight any and all invaders, whomever they may be. Bombings of British territory like Gibraltar by the Vichy air force was not regular and in fact was done only at times as retaliation for British strikes on French territory, and was usually more a symbolic show of force for the sake of honor than for anything else.

To that effect, the Vichyites were also not as complicit with the Japanese as you imply. They fought the Japanese in 1940, the Thai in 1940-1941, and again the Japanese in 1945, the last of which was an extremely bloody coup that resulted in many fights-to-the-death.

Everyone talks of the French Resistance, but nobody acknowledges the French Army's contribution to the Allies. After Operation Torch and Case Anton, the Allies recognized France as an Allied nation again due to French North Africa joining the Allies under Admiral Darlan, third highest Vichy official and the chief of all French forces throughout the empire (the mainland Vichy government became illegal due to the violation of the armistice by the Germans and occupation of the free zone, as under French law you could not take orders from a government in the hands of an enemy state; one notices the sudden seizure of power by Pierre Laval and the mainland Vichy government's sudden transformation into merely a mouthpiece for Berlin). The reason de Gaulle is recognized as the head of France by 1944 was because of the combination of the Free French with the standard (former Vichy) French in the empire, but these former Vichy French added a significant force to subsequent campaigns. About 60,000 served well (considering their armament limitations) in the Tunisian Campaign following their rejoining the Allies, and, once combined with the Free French in 1943, went on to serve with great distinction in the Italian Campaign, where their 120,000 troops were the deciding factor in the breaking of the Gustav Line (the Fourth Battle of Monte Cassino). To call the combat performance of the French Expeditionary Corps in Italy "pathetic" would be a gross historical misjudgement.

The French First Army would make up most of the liberating force in Southern France following Operation Dragoon; the French Army had only a limited presence in Normandy (commandos, SAS, and the 2nd Armored) because most of the forces were allocated to Operation Dragoon.

The actual estimated number of willing collaborators is about the same as the internal resistance: around 200,000. Most people in metropolitan France just lived their lives.

In terms of legal government and military contribution however, France's placement as one of the top five UN nations was based on post-war considerations, but it was justified with the fact that for all intents and purposes, numerically (as opposed to say, proportionately when compared to say Poland), France was indeed the fifth most prominent Allied nation; the only time they weren't was really from June 1940 until November 1942, when they were neutralized and only the minuscule Free French movement (viewed as rebels by most French) was around.

(On a side note, I've always wondered why so many sources claim Poland provided the fourth most troops to the Allied war effort; other than from 1940-1942 as mentioned above, numerically the numbers of Polish forces in the west and east, even including Armia Krajowa, do not agree; first, France did provide more troops and active combat troops post-1942, and second, in any case, neither France nor Poland provided nearly as much to the war effort as China against Japan over in the Far East, which obviously was recognized by FDR as the "Fourth Policeman" of the Allied war effort. Not to bash on either the French or Poles, as they along with the Chinese are the WW2 nations I like studying most, just stating objective fact.)

Finally, why are the Free French flags on the cars in the film backward?

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France had the largest army in the world when germany attacked her. It was over in two weeks. They had superior tanks and more of them, yet it was a slaughter. Any talk of how the French are unfairly depicted is just a bunch of bs. They were a country of pacifist, that doctrine being taught in schools. They had no will to fight. It wasn't the French arms, or French bravery that did them in, it was their will to fight ....they had none.

I used to think they were cowards for surendering Paris, but now i realize that it was the right thing to do.......fighting wouldn't have changed the outcome, and a beautiful city would have been lost.

Yeah, the French SUCKED in ww2, but I'm italian, so sucking at war is something i know something about. It's amazing.....TWO all time great military powers.......they've become a cesspool of spineless appeasers......

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The French Army was completely inept at the outset of the war, just study the effect of the famous Maginot Line. The French Resistance (FFI) did much to disrupt German and Vichy operations during the years of occupation, and the Americans owe alot to them for their excellent intelligence gathering and sabatoge in the months and weeks leading up to D-Day.

I respect General LeClerc, who was a real fighter, and have utter disrespect for DeGaulle.

Whoever you are that posted the original message, the minute you use the word 'loose' instead of 'lose' and 'Irak' instead of 'Iraq', you've lost your audience. I strongly suggest using a spell checker in the future.

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Speaking about spelling, you should write Leclerc, and not LeClerc.

Your severe judgment on the 1939 French strategy was shared by De Gaulle, did you know ? And not only after June 1940 collapse. As soon as September 1936, De Gaulle, who was still then a colonel but also a bright military strategist, attempted privately to persuade the French government to change the defense policy. He suggested to count on more tanks and more mobility, instead of Maginot system. Unfortunately, the government still put trust in the high commandment to provide the appropriate view on defense.

De Gaulle had fought in the World War I and then against the Red Army in the Russian civil war (1918-20). Leclerc could not because he was still too young. After June 1940, if honest men like Leclerc joined De Gaulle, it is precisely because they considered De Gaulle as a fighter and as the providential leader of a fighting French government in exile. Loyal Leclerc would be absolutely shocked by a so-called “utter disrespect” for his chief De Gaulle, and so would be the true Churchill or the true Eisenhower, who met De Gaulle several times during the war.

Your tribute to the French Resistance is kind, although London, where was De Gaulle and several other leaders of Resistance from occupied countries, was a less safe place to be in 1940-41 than continental Europe at this time. In 1940-41, London was under fire from Luftwaffe. If the French Resistance action was more efficient in Spring 1944 than before, it was mainly because it was more and more coordinated by De Gaulle’s men, who were not all in France. I hope your conception of what is a “real fighter” does not exclude men and women who contributed to the Victory but were not fighting in France between June 1940 and June 1944. Otherwise, prime minister Mackenzie King in Ottawa and premier Adélard Godbout in Quebec City, both as soon as 1939, president Franklin Roosevelt in Washington after December 1941, even general Eisenhower and many other men and women were not “real fighters”. Nor the French general Leclerc, who was fighting out of metropolitan France between 1940 and 1944.

Vichy’s propagandists claimed General De Gaulle should have stayed quiet in France and told the true hero was Marshall Pétain. They would have been delighted by your boyish conception that De Gaulle was not a “real fighter”. De Gaulle should have his place among your World War II’s heroes.

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"... and the Americans owe alot to them for their excellent intelligence gathering and sabatoge in the months and weeks leading up to D-Day"

I know I'm replying to a post written a decade ago but being that today was the 72nd
anniversary of D Day, reading the above just frosted me to no end. Yes they provided
intelligence and assisted with 'sabotage' but they damn well should have !!! The Americans were saving their damn country !! If anything it should have been French men mowed down
of the beaches of Normandy and our guys 'gathering intelligence and sabotage' while
the French took the murderous machine gun fire !!!! I have no idea if you are French or not but if you are -well, talk about ungrateful ...

The other thing that has me spitting mad is the comments about how America dragged its feet getting involved in the war. Do you remember WW I (One) ??? Americans weren't
equipped to fight another war, emotionally or in terms of armaments and supplies. It took some doing but I'd damn sure say that America rose to the task toot sweet !
Of all the (De)gaulle !!!!!

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Also the last Iron Cross winner for the German army in Berlin was French and a member of the Charlamagne Division.

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Also, the listed goof on the goofs section for this movie is partly wrong. DeGaulle did indeed strongly object to putting French forces under the command of anyone other that a French commander(in other words himself). He changed his mind when Ike "convinced him of the error of his ways". DeGaulle however did not object to the invasion plans. He in his swelled headed mind thought that he could improve on them. Ike very tactfully(as was shown in the movie), told DeGaulle that it was too late to have changes done to the plan. DeGaulle even when allowed to be at the lead of French troops marching into Paris, very much downplayed the American and British(along with Canadian) troops in the liberation of Western France and Paris. He made it seem like the French troops did the vast majority of the fighting and that that American and British were just along for the ride. All you have to do is read the translations of his so called "Victory Speaches" to the French people. As for the forementioned French underground, prior to D-Day it can be argued how much difference they really made. However, the night before D-Day, they did important work. They destroyed all kinds of communication lines, and even blew up some important rail lines. That was essential and dangerous work vital to the allies. After the war, we saw DeGaulle's true colors. He turned France into a Socialist nation, and told lies and propaganda about England and America, giving the average Frenchman a bad view against both countries. He was a very poor General, and an even worse President.

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precisely. He treated his allies badly, and as frenchmen would say, America steals the glory. That is what DeGaulle did, he stole the glory, when it should have been shared with Americans, British, and Canadians. The fact that he gave very little credit to the other Allies is a true discredit for him. saying that I believe many frenchmen fought valiantly for their country, either with FreeFrench or Allied forces, or doing good work with the Resistance. It is not fair to group them all with the Vichy regime or Degaulle's arrogance.

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I think if one country in WW2 was given very little credit for their contribution to the defeat of Nazi Germany, it is the USSR...
Hollywood makes it look like the USA are the main force behind the defeat of Hitler, whereas it was the Eastern front where the main battles were fought.
It is true that D-Day is very important to the war effort, but if it weren't for the Russians, tv series like "Band of Brothers" might have never happened, because they would have been slaughtered by superior German troops otherwise wasted in the Eastern Front...

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Can't really disagree. As detestable as Josef Stalin was, the Russians have to be given credit for giving Germany a tremendously bloody nose, and there can be little doubt that their efforts had great influence on the outcome of the D-Day invasion. It's such a shame that Stalin's policy of "not one step backwards" cost so many soldiers' lives. Stalin once said that in the Soviet army, it takes more courage to retreat than advance. That was not an empty statement.

As far as the french are concerned (and the lack of capitalization is not an oversight), I can think of fewer people who are more utterly contemptible. The French resistance certainly deserve respect, but they are a small minority. The term "White as a french battle flag" didn't come about because it wasn't true. Patton said "I'd rather have a German division in front of me than a french one behind me," which couldn't have summed it up more accurately. The french, in general, are exceedingly arrogant despite having little about which to be arrogant. Yet, once being liberated, DeGaulle leads his army down the street as though he personally commanded the liberating troops. When I read memoirs of US soldiers who occupied both france and Germany, I find that a number of them were amazed by the fact that the Germans came out and worked hard to clean up battle damaged cities and towns, organize their resources and salvage what they could to help rebuild. The french did nothing to clean up their cities and towns, and sat around allowing pile of rubble to remain for months while they waited for someone else to clean up. I think they just didn't want to risk getting dirt under their fingernails.

After all, that would just be so gauche.

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In the American War of Independence, and for at least two centuries before the Blue-White-Red flag brought by the 1789 Revolution, the French flags used on battlefields and ships were mainly white, often with the Kingdom's golden and blue coat of arms, and were sometimes white only.

Arrogant, dirty, lazy, the French. What else ?

Your final comment about fingernails makes me feeling sad.

The French seem for you as bad as Jews were in the mind of too many Germans in the 1930's.

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USSR largely took credit for its contribution to the war against Germany, if we do not forget to look at the debit side.

If French-British troops were shovelled by the German forces in 1940, it is notably because they were fighting alone against the Germans on the Western Front, while USSR was a Nazi Germany’s Ally on the Eastern front.

In 1939, Poland was not just attacked by the Germans, but also by the Russians.

In 1940, USSR invaded Lituania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland, four neutral countries.

It is only after Hitler foolishly attacked USSR, in July 1941, that USSR began to fight on the same side as the Free French and the British against the Axis.

The day before the day of German invasion, USSR was still providing fuel, metal, minerals, and goods to Nazi Germany. It is a luck the USA and the British Dominions were able to provide those things to Britain, despite U-Boots and Luftwaffe.

The Red Army deliberately stopped its counter-attack to let the German Army crush the Second Warsaw Uprising in August 1944.

For 45 years, Moscow claimed the Germans had slaughtered Polish officers in Katyn, and several honest people in Western countries believed it. Since USSR collapsed, we have had access to archives and we now know the Red Army executed the Polish officers. The Soviet Union practiced social class "epuration".

World War II did not exclusively happen in Europe. The Americans, and not the Russians at all, fought the Japanese.

After the war was over, USSR charged reparation payments to the countries where the Red Army had fought. USSR was enlarged by new lands, while Germany and Eastern European countries were chopped. Huge deportations of people happened. P.O.W. under Soviet control died massively at work and starved. The Americans remembered the lessons of the World War I and offered financial help (Dodge Plan for Japan, Marshall Plan for Europe) to rebuild every countries, including former foes. The Kremlin answered No for the countries it had "freed".

True, the Soviet Union had certainly more casualties than any other countries, even if we should not fully trust Russian statistics of the 1930's and the 1940's. But such slaughter also shows the Russian Army had learnt nothing from World War I and had kept the same military doctrine : oppose a mass of almost naked soldiers to an enemy's technological superiority, and it is possible to defeat this enemy on a long run. What is a human life for a dictature ?

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A “Socialist nation”: what is that, Mr. WarEagle-3 ? If France turned a “Socialist nation”, you should tell us when, and you should explain us how De Gaulle can be blamed for that.

Between 1945 and 1951, many industries were nationalized in United Kingdom, commodities were rationed by the British government, and most physicians became civil servants inside the (still existing now) National Health Service. Right after the war, many industries were nationalized in Italy. Meanwhile in America, the Truman’s Fair Deal added pieces to the Welfare State, and the next president, Eisenhower (1953-61), was going to follow on this path. In many Western countries, governments started in the Post-War era to plan, notably, housing and electricity supply, to subsidize agriculture, to raise more taxes, etc. As the chief of a coalition government where Socialists and Communists were influential, De Gaulle behaved after August 1944 in France as many other chiefs of government in those times. And at the very beginning of 1947, he resigned. De Gaulle came back in office between 1958 and 1969. The government of this “very poor” President then successfully used incentive planning to stimulate economic development. Colbert, under Louis XIV, had already did that. Historians would hardly tell France was more Socialist after 1969 than before 1958. What is your source?

I think you do not know very much of De Gaulle works and accomplisments but through caricatures by cheap screenplays.

A poor general, De Gaulle ? The best parts of the critics of the 1940’s French defense system you can read come from General De Gaulle analysis of the French defense policy, and he made his criticisms privately as soon as September 1936, meeting ministers to warn them. Poor general ? In an almost literal way, yes. How would you manage that, boy, to gather from all around the world the French who want to fight, and to do this while your enemy is pulling the strings of a puppet government in your country ? It is not underestimating the general Eisenhower’s big contribution to the Victory to admit De Gaulle had a much more difficult and complex part to play in this war.

Despite occasional disagreements with General Eisenhower and Prime Minister Churchill, none of them kept resentment against De Gaulle. Eisenhower and Churchill both did not think De Gaulle was horrid. President Eisenhower once write later about a visit to his “friend and comrade De Gaulle” (sic).

For one, President Roosevelt did not meet the chief of the Free French before January 1943, and still try in the next five months to choose another Frenchman as a chief of the French. And that was after three years of attempts from U.S. officials to deal with the Vichy regime, without any benefits, of course. Should De Gaulle be cheered by such a pitiful behavior when he met various U. S. officials ? Despite several petitions from the British and the Russians, the Roosevelt administration did not recognize the provisory government of De Gaulle before June 3th, 1944, three days before the Normandy Landing. So yes, it was to late to improve any plan. But the June 1944’s recognition was an improved attitude from the American government. When the Americans planned the landing in Morocco and Algeria, they did not even warn De Gaulle. Fortunately, Vichy’s troops fought without conviction against the Americans. On the other side, the Free French troops, under Leclerc and Koenig, had bravely fought the Vichy French in Syria in 1941, the Italians and the Germans in Sahara in 1941 and 1942, before the Americans landed in North Africa.

Saying De Gaulle gave to Frenchmen a bad view of England is highly fanciful and give to a single man an influence he could not have. It is not a secret England and France were fighting against each other since the Middle Age and for the last time at Waterloo in 1815. Although they were often fighting as Allies since that, rivalry and suspicion frequently arise in their relationship.

De Gaulle told a lie about England and America ? Give us a serious example.

If De Gaulle ever downplayed the role of the Canadians in the liberation of Western France, it seems it was not taken for cash. Many Canadian tourists in France could witness how French people expressed spontaneously their gratitude to the Canadians.

In August 1944, a detachment of General Bradley’s troops and other American soldiers paraded on the Champs-Elysées in Paris, on a demand from De Gaulle, and they were acclaimed by a huge crowd. In September 1944, De Gaulle paraded with Churchill, who was also acclaimed by a huge crowd.

You must think about De Gaulle’s Victory speechs as a psychologic weapon to discourage the last Collaborators and the Germans troops still in France. In 1944, the Allies crossed rapidly France, the vastest country in Europe but Russia, and did not have to occupy the country. This relief and help for Allied troops was not too much paid by letting the Free French troops and the Resistance take more credit than they deserved. Eisenhower understood it, and it is an additionnal proof he was a wise general.

I think De Gaulle did not trust the US government more than Roosevelt trusted him, but he was never unfair to the USA as you are about him, unless you consider an Ally, once he becomes the president of his country (1958-69), should not ask America to shut its military bases in his country more than 15 years after World War II, or should forget his own country’s unfortunate experience in Southeast Asia and not warn America about military involvement there.

At least, De Gaulle should have a place among your World War II’s heroes.

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You mean Charlemagne, Mr. Sawyertom ?

So what ?

This distinguished traitor you unfortunately do not name could be in a close competition with notably Thomas Cooper, James Conen, Roy Walter Purdy, Railton Freeman, William Celliers, Robert Chipchase, Lionel Wood, Albert James Stokes, Roy Nicholas Courlander, and Arthur James Cryderman, members of the S.S. who were British, South Africaners, Australian, New Zealander and Canadian. Not to mention Houston Stewart Chamberlain (not related to Neville) (1855-1927), born in England and one of the most influential theoricist of national socialism. Read about British Free Corps on Wikipedia.

But you know what ? The British, the South Africaners, the Australians, the New Zealanders, the Canadians and the French should not be denigrated for the bad behaviour of a pack of individuals. I also believe the schemes of a handful of Sadducees and Pharisees to have Jesus killed by the Romans 2000 years ago should not be reproached to the Jews, unless you follow anti-semitists in their logic. Is it your logic ?

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Get real mate,the SS was able to recruit large numbers of men into the divisions of French,Dutch,Belgian and Baltic SS units,they were vey keen and did a lot of fighting,I would say for the wrong side.

All accounts of the few British and American volunteers have them doing little or no fighting.
If you look into the British Free Corp you find that they were all nutters and misfits.

There is a library full of books about how Vichy is the shame of French history,we know about the resistance and the Free French forces,we keep hearing about them but you know the majority did not resist or fight with De Gaulle.
Vichy was the French government,supported by the majority of the population.
Since we are on a film site check out NIGHT AND FOG or THE SORROW AND THE PITY.



The special pleading for France on this site is sad,I admire the French people who did fight on the side of freedom but the story is complicated and French speaking people from Canada telling us how great France is/was just makes me laugh.
The truth about France in World War 11 lies somewhere between the Gaullist myths and the anti French rubbish we hear from some British and American people.

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The French are only interested in fine wine & food - and if that means collaborating then they will do it without thinking twice. Oh and it's spelled 'Lose' .

That which does not Kill me makes me Stranger . . .

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For Sale:

One French army rifle. Never fired, dropped once.

hahahaha

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Yeah whatever OP, this movie is accurate, don't be so defensive of France. For once it's also pro-British and pro-American while also being anti-Nazi which is really enough for me.

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De Gaulle was carrying the conscience of France and Churchill made allowances regarding his behaviour.He walked about with an air of indignance,arrogance and affrontation that caused Churchill to remark:" he looks like a surprised Llama in her bath"!It must have pained him greatly how the French army performed in 1940 but the main problem was that he deeply resented the fact it took a foreign army with token French support to liberate his own country-particularly a British army.History should accord him credit for galvanising the Free French and members of the resistance but not his appalling behaviour.

Quite enjoyed this TV film and thought Selleck was excellent as Ike.Intelligent script,good performances and some nice humour to ease the tension as Monty reluctantly has to accede to the smokers during his briefing.

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!It must have pained him greatly how the French army performed in 1940 but the main problem was that he deeply resented the fact it took a foreign army with token French support to liberate his own country-particularly a British army.


Well Khazi it has been said that the French rarely pass up a chance to "give the finger" to the Anglo Saxon World (Britain, the US) whenever the get the chance.

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