I recently watching this series, and I was fairly please with what I saw. But one thing that stuck in my mind the whole time I was watching this, is that this might be one of the only movies in which Nazi's are portrayed as regular humans with emotion and not pure kill machines. It seemed as if they (filmmakers) wanted you to like the Nazis, and this is definately one of the few films that does that. Any thoughts?
Cheers!
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My response would be to ask who in the film is a "Nazi"? Certainly all Germans were not Nazis, and I think this film gives you a view of the different types of people that made up the German army.
Walker seems to be the most pure Nazi, having bought the "Aryan supremacy", anti-semitic line all the way. Maybe he's a product of the Youth Corps and has been totally twisted. Bernhard, on the other hand, is just a kid who was drafted into the army and has no idealogy about what the Germans are doing. And the Baron? I see him as someone who has gone along with the Nazis for purposes of his own survival, but he is intelligent enough to see where things are heading, and wishes he had a choice in what he has been ordered to do.
I liked Island At War because it actually filled out the German side, which I'm very interested in psychologically (will not go on about that lol) instead of portraying them as the shallow cutout Nazi killing machines as they usually are in movies such as Saving Private Ryan. Simply, some Germans in WWII were like Bernhardt or disagreed with Hitler--not all of them were "Walkers", SS fanatics, etc.
Fact: most of the German population during Nazi rule were not Nazis. That party actually only made up a small percentage. However, it is true that Hitler greatly influenced the German people in a variety of ways by playing to their weaknesses and giving them what appeared to be glorious alternatives, if you will.
During the early stages of the war, the Blitzkrieg, during which Island At War takes place, most of the German forces still had great faith in Hitler because it seemed at the time that he had been describing the truth when he talked of total Aryan domination simply because they were winning. After the fall of the blitzed countries, the German victory at Dunkirk, and then the takeover of the Channel Islands, things looked pretty good for Germany and there was little doubt or pressure against Hitler. It wasn't until later that serious objection, including assassination attempts, were made against him--Erwin Rommel is a perfect example, if you know who he is. An admirer of Hitler (though never a Nazi) until he began to realize what damage the man was doing to Germany, Rommel was later involved in the Bomb Plot to kill him and was murdered for it.
This enthusiasm towards Hitler that you may have picked up in Island At War, as you can see, would be typical at the time, then, but it's obvious that some doubt is starting to show through, possibly because of the German performance decline in the Battle of Britain (in which the Baron's son was killed). Bernhardt really hates the Nazis and knows what they're doing, but it isn't far enough in the war for you to see some real doubt. Check back on St. Gregory in 1944--I guarentee Bernhardt has made friends and the guy who sold his pistol to Collin and Ronald's view of "I don't give a s*** who wins" is far more widespread. Walker is of course excluded, being the complete fanatic that he is.
So, if you prefer less of the German human interest and more of the "mow down the evil Nazis" theme, I suggest Saving Private Ryan. Maybe a historically good movie, but definitely not one for fleshing out the German side besides the mindless Nazi fanatic.
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"I could not tread these perilous paths in safety, if I did not keep a saving sense of humor."
-Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson
Hello All:
While I didn't feel Rheingarten was portrayed sympathetically, his rivalry with James Dorr for Felicity's affections and his fatherly manner with "Mr. Brotherson" (Phillip Dorr) do make his story the main plotline. This "blended family", if you will, functioned as the center of gravity for the other relationships: Bernhardt Telleman<-->Angelique, June Mahy<-->Captain Muller, Cassie Mahy<-->Oberwachtmeister Wimmel, Leutnant Walker<-->Hannah/Zelda.
A member of the "old-guard" Prussian aristocracy, he was a Baron who loved walling, wine-making, wool-gathering in his garden late at night. But for his initial "Heil Hitler" from the Hotel St. George balcony, Heinrich Rheingarten was not portrayed as a Nazi - writer Stephen Malatratt (R.I.P.) painted Oberleutnant Flach, the interrogator, as the zealous party politico, replete with signature leather duster.
Leutnant Walker is perhaps the most horrifying character I have ever seen in a British series. A psychopath motivated purely by lust, he is without morals, even abandoning his abhorrent lebensborn ideology, as one would take off a coat, the instant it becomes inconvenient. Politeness and "chivalry" (in his own twisted way) having failed to seduce a woman he insults with almost with every breath, he will have her at the point of a gun and still think himself a gentleman.
Through the Walker<-->Hannah/Zelda dynamic director Peter Lydon hints at the horror of "Sophie's Choice, "Life is Beautiful", "Schindler's List" etc.
Do I contradict myself? Very well then...I contradict myself, I am large...I contain multitudes
I don't believe that Walker contradicted himself at any point. He was never guided by an ideology against the Jews or any other ideology, or by a lust. He was guided by violating boundaries and domination. He was motivated by getting all the marbles for himself, so to speak--greed and domination, but especially about crossing boundaries.
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One of the main reasons for the Germans behaving themselves for the most part in the occupation of the Channel islands was a clever form of propaganda, they wanted to show that the German and British people could live in peace and harmony, after all Hitler respected Britain and didn't want all out war with Britain.
This changed with the Battle of Britain.
On the Channel islands German soldiers paid for goods bought at a fair market rate (an exchange rate was put in place for this purpose) and they worked with the local police force in security matters.
Ulitimately the Channel islands were the only part of the British isles that were occupied by the Germans during the second world war.
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Were all Germans Nazis? Were all Americans at Abu Graib Nazis? I don´t know. Probably not. Probably most people are just scared and try to be nice or to become part of the system, when a violent force is coming at them. George W. Bush, that is how you create a fascism. Look at the book & movie »The Wave« once in a while, will you?
[email protected] I Rostock, Germany
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@»... Americans would have to stoop a H@LL of a long way before they would even be HALF AS BAD AS THE NAZIS!!!! And even on his WORST day, George W. Bush would be a SAINT compared to HITLER!!!!«
Good to hear, keep it that way. The international public opinion is much worth than my personal views. Still torture is not banned, still it is not clear that change will come. Europeans today are more scared of america than of terrorism. What a pity!
[email protected] I Rostock, Germany
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Are you sure you are an american and not a representative of the chinese gouvernment? What money are you talking about? The military help for rightwing juntas in south america or the money you spent on weapons and military in iraq? U.S. policies are known for not being very generous, to say the least, when it comes to international projects of solidarity, may it be environmental questions, the hunger of the world or the UN. The tragic bush years really seem to have left some traces on your conscience. And I hope that your god will be a mild judge.
[email protected] I Rostock, Germany
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You are definetely right, the Marshall Plan was a great thing germany is still grateful for. But that was sixty years ago. I don´t think you are still thankful germany sent millions of people overseas to built up the U.S.A. 200 years ago, are you?
That all sounds a little selfish. I don´t mean it personal and the reason for this limited point of view is probably based on little contact to the rest of the world.
On Bush: Personally I would prefer a president who likes blowjobs better than one who is into killing hundreds of thousands for profit – and then even loosing the war he started. I am not going to comment on »god´s« opinion on that!
[email protected] I Rostock, Germany
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I guess we are not going to find a compromise here, are we? Anyway, I like »Island at war« a lot for its production values and the pretty realistic point of view as far as I am able to judge on that.
P.S.: But I have to say the U.S.A. lost in Vietnam and Iraq for the same reasons: Lack of knowledge and empathy for the people they were trying to convince. If you search an arab´s home at night in front of his family or even make him take his clothes of, he will haunt you to the grave. He won´t care for your reasons (9/11) or democracy. Just accept the facts – the world is not Hollywood or Fox News.
[email protected] I Rostock, Germany
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You seem to be an experienced person! That must have been quite an experience. Believe it or not, I wish you and the US troops all the best for the future, I just think this engagement has been a huge mistake.
[email protected] I Rostock, Germany
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Yes, I guess everybody will agree on that. It was a good thing to get Saddam. But what about the chinese government and many other injust systems? How comes George W. Bush never went after the 9/11 terrorists, almost all of them coming out of saudi arabia? US oil interests, right? Same with iraq, I am afraid.
[email protected] I Rostock, Germany
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It's a shame this thread has descended into a pointless argument, one that I couldn't even be bothered to read.
How about we try discussing this excellent piece of television instead?
With the question of feeling sympathy for the Nazi's; this show was one of very few WW2 drama's I have seen that have presented fleshed out, three dimensional German soldiers. Certain of the German soldiers are full blown Nazi's but they are outnumbered by the amount of non-Nazi's there are. I suspect that this may be a fairly true representation. After all, the entire German army couldn't have all been Nazi's. Dear Buddha, please send me a pony and a plastic rocket.
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Just as I'm sure that not all the soldiers in the British army wanted to be involved in the war. Once conscription started up I expect there were a lot of young men fighting who didn't want to be there. Dear Buddha, please send me a pony and a plastic rocket.
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"I recently watching this series, and I was fairly please with what I saw. But one thing that stuck in my mind the whole time I was watching this, is that this might be one of the only movies in which Nazi's are portrayed as regular humans with emotion and not pure kill machines."
What I took from Island At War was Occurpation demands hard choices from the people under Occupation and the people Occupying. It wasn't as simple as black or white for many of these people including the Germans.
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instead of portraying them as the shallow cutout Nazi killing machines as they usually are in movies
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I wouldn't have said that any of this was particularly new. As far back as the 1950s, there were war films showing Field Marshal Rommel and Captain Langsdorff of the Graf Spee in a sympathetic light.
Even irt the Channel Islands, this has all been covered previously in the series "Enemy at the Door". There too, the German Kommandant was shown as a basically decent sort, just doing his duty, and there was a tragic episode in which a German soldier was executed by his own side on a false accusation of having raped a local girl.
The SS, of course, were there in the usual "black hat" role, with one Hauptmann Reinecke anticipating Walker as the man you loved to hate. But I thought EatD showed this a bit more realistically than many others. In one memorable (and horrible) episode involving the interrogation of a 16yo boy, the Wehrmacht officers were shown deriding the SS and calling them all sorts in the mess - but only when off duty. During office hours, they worked perfectly hand in glove, with the Army man acting as "soft cop", and cajoling the boy "Please tell me something. If I don't get any results, those SS brutes will take over the case". This, I suspect, got the relationship about right.