American Pronunciation?


I realize that I should be used to the American-bashing on these boards, and I should let this go, but it really bothers me. Someone stated the following as a Goof: "Errors in geography: Baron Rheingarten refers to an explosion that could be heard "three kilometres away". But he uses the popular (but incorrect) American "killOMitta" pronunciation rather than the normal German "KILLoMAYter" or British "KILLoMEEter" pronunciation."

Okay, first of all, this "goof" has nothing to do with geography, it is someone's opinion on pronunciation.
Second, I have been an American for about 39 out of my 39 years of life, and have lived in the U.S. for that entire time, and have NEVER heard an American pronounce that word in that way.
Third, if pronouncing the word with the stress on the second syllable (which we do) is incorrect, why is it that way in the OXFORD Dictionary? I've never visited Oxford to know first-hand, but I have read that it is in England, and I believe it. I consider the Oxford Dictionary to be the ultimate authority on the English language, so I'll use it to support my claim.
Fourth, the actor that portrays Rheingarten (Philip Glenister) was born in London (which his bio says is also in England) and that he "Trained at the Central School of Speech and Drama." I've never heard of that school, but Wikipedia says it is in London (which again, I believe is in England, U.K.). If Mr. Glenister pronounces the word incorrectly, why does it have to be called an "American" pronunciation? He's neither American nor German according to his biography. Yanks and Brits pronounce many words differently. That's the way it is! There are even some words that Americans pronounce differently than other Americans.
Fifth (and hopefully last), the German exchange student that my family is currently hosting pronounces it "KILLoMEEter." Does this mean she isn't really German, and might instead be British?

I hope the person that posted that "goof" can get over his or her issues with Americans, but in the meantime, I'd just like to enjoy an outstanding television series, if that's not too much trouble.

reply

Simple, there are, and were then, American nationals teaching English in Europe. I have a Dutch friend who speaks "English" with a strong new York accent, gained directly from his teacher. They were clearly using artistic licence in this series!

Being a well-spoken Englishman, I get very irritated by American actors doing bad English accents, such as Reece Witherspoon, Renee Zellweger and the valet to Magnum (he's particularly attrocious!). I'm sure there are numerous cases too of L.A.-based British actors committing crimes against correct American pronunciation.

Still, life's too short to get hung up on it.

F.Y.I. The Central School of Speech and Drama is in Swiss Cottage, North London.

reply

Calacatranis: You were right on the money (spot on ;-)regarding actors using poor imitations of accents. You'd think that with at the money invested in these movies they could afford actors who had mastered them.

I (American) do believe that British actors, and for that matter Australian, seem to do better at adopting an American accent than visa versa. Even I can hear how terrible Witherspoon and Zellweger sound but rarely have trouble with Brit/Aussie actors with American accents. In fact it is often a surprise to find that an actor is not American eg. Jonathan LaPaglia, Nicole Kidman, Sam Neill.

Many years ago I attended a performance at Wimbledon Theater of Rocky Horror Show with two British actors playing the American leads. It wasn't until well into the second half that I was finally convinced that they were, in fact, Brits. Impressive.


ETO: Americans (generally) pronounce it "kill-LOM-eter". The only time you might hear "killOMitta" is from the Bostonians who drop the "r" and save them for use in words ending in "a" such as "Cuba" and "Jamaica" ;-)

reply

cwoliver-1, thank you for explaining to me how I speak my language and how I pronounce that word. Unfortunately, I did not need to be educated by you regarding this matter, because I WAS QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE, WHICH YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HAD YOU READ MY POST A LITTLE MORE CAREFULLY. However, you did not read my post carefully, and therefore, just like Calacatranis, you missed the entire point of it. And so, you also have decided to twist this into a comparison of Brits and Americans pronunciations of each other's accents.

I think it's great that you are so impressed with British actors' abilities to sound American. I don't have any problem with that. It seems almost as if American English originally started as British English. Could that actually be possible? I wonder if the English immigrants that founded the United States spoke with British accents! Wouldn't that be wild?

Maybe I'll start another thread about comparing accents and pronunciations, but until I do, I think I'll remain focused on the original topic of this thread. Oh, and by the way, Bostonians aren't the only Americans that drop the "r" at the ends of words.

reply

ETO_Buff:

Thank you for correcting my egregious error so politely. No one has ever been confused about some's post or departed on a tangent before; I guess it is my honor to be the first for both. You have furthered this discussion in a mature and thoughtful manner. Thank you for being so mature and understanding. Oops. Should I have started a new thread for this?

reply

Yes, probably! LOL Just kidding.

reply

Not that anything you said has much to do with what I said, but I do have three questions:

How much time have you spent in New York that allows you to determine the strength of your friend's accent? From which borough does the accent come?

Is North London not in England?

And a comment:

As far as I know, none of the British actors that were in Band of Brothers are "L.A.-based," but every one of them were required to play American soldiers, and they all sounded a little funny. Are Liam Neeson and Ralph Fiennes "L.A.-based"? My info says Neeson lives in New York and Fiennes lives in London. I have to admit that I have no idea what L.A. has to do with it.

My post was a comment about an Englishman speaking with an English accent that some other know-it-all Englishman said he spoke with an American accent. Why do you have to try to turn this into an issue of how Americans do English accents? Is it because you are anti-American like the person who made the original comment and you need to find some way of creating an issue out of nothing also?

Well, I guess that turned into six questions. No need to answer any of them. If you want to have a problem with American actors doing bad British accents, that's your prerogative, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with my original post.

reply

It was the friend whom advised me that his teacher was from New York, so no assumption, nor erstwhilst method was used on my part in producing that fact.

North London is indeed in England - I was being specific with reference the location of the CSSD, not embarking on a journey of geographical semantics.

LA based - pass.

Yes I am anti-American. So is most of the world now. Epidemic obesity and hard-of- thinking just isn't that popular. I'm sorry, but there you have it old chap.


reply

Thank you for your candor. If you would prefer to take a shot at me for being American, there are more direct ways of doing so. Do you scan the boards looking for Americans with whom to argue? I'm certainly not anti-anyone, especially England, but it's a good thing for you that another Europe-centered world war is not likely to ever take place so we won't have to bail your asses out of it. Wouldn't that be a thorn in your side?

reply

Well if one does, let's hope we don't have to wait three years again for you lot, as we did back in the 1940's when the job was already half done. Even then, a major reason for the U.S. getting involved was more to do with its' fear of communism pervading a larger chunk of Europe than it eventually did.

Oh and whilst we're at it, any chance your verbally retarded pilots (quote "Dude we're gonna jail") could learn to tell the difference between brightly identified British ground armour and the opposition? Maybe we should protect ourselves from the likes of Dick Dastardly & Mutley by branding our vehicles with KFC logo's and dressing up our compounds as Chicken Ranch bordello's?

Do drop by for tea when you're in the area. Good-day old chap.

reply

Jolly good fun, what?

By the way, could someone "over there" please tell Eric Clapton it's pronounced "Layla" and not "Lay-lerrr"?
Many thanks, old bean!

reply

[deleted]

Old Empire but I pronounce Kilometre as er...mile.Haven`t you got miles in the U.S. anymore or are your government trying to get rid of them as well?

reply

[deleted]

This whole thing started with a few pronounciations of actors and at the end you a Brit and a Yank are talking silly about each other. Lighten up please. Im coming into this discussion rather late,yet believe that what Hollywood or Pinewood do is just to entertain us and we shouldn't be taking these things to seriously. I have watched many movies where the actors switched accents back and forth thus leaving me puzzled on their quality of acting and even their credibility as good actors.
The series was good entertainment loosely based on fact and I would have hoped for more but that's the way it is. I'm German by birth and have spent most of my life in the US. I am always intriqued watching German Soldiers in any series or movies. It's nice to see them as sympathetic characters sometimes and not just shooting or beating people.
BTW being stubborn and defiant on not accepting the metric system is part of our collective downfall while the rest of the world is using it except for Myanmar and that's not saying a whole lot here. It's like saying we are Americans and we don't have to dance to other people's music. That's right... but one day the music will stop...

reply

Ok I Know this post was written six years ago and honestly who even knows if your still alive. But the issue I'm going to take up is not the main subject of the thread, but rather your horrific interpretation on history.

When you refer to world war 2 and the American involvement in it you said that by the time the American army entered the war that the English already had the job half done. That statement by itself just proves that if your not an idiot then well you need to study your history books a little bit better and stop trying to stroke your own ego because its obvious you know nothing about world war 2 from your statement. The only part of that statement is that the war was going on for almost 3 years before the Americans entered the war. Everything else about your statement is just pure idiocy. Especially when you say that you already had the war half finished.

So if that was the case then can you please tell me why Germany had almost all of continental western Europe still under their control? Or why England was still being bombed by Germany almost daily up until November 1941? You also might forget a little thing called the German invasion of Russia in June 1941, which took pressure off Great Britain which up until then was like a 5 year old drowning in a 12 foot pool without a life jacket. I think maybe you might also be forgetting the retreat of Dunkirk in June 1940. England was not even close to getting out of North Africa, or making a stand anywhere else in the world in December 1941.

So sir would you please tell me how England which didn't even have close to enough firepower to invade france in December 1941 have anywhere near half of that war won? Now i'm not exactly pro-American, nor am I Pro- British, but I will say that I am anti-lets reinvent history. So thank you for proving that although the british people may think they are better then the rest of America it often comes down to individual intelligence, and nothing to do with your nationality, which country you came from. Your arrogance is amazing sir

reply

Sorry I didn't take you up on your invitation for tea when I was in London three years ago, but I didn't bother to read your reply until just now. I only had four days anyway, and I wanted to see important things.

I have no idea what your second paragraph means, but as for the first one, it's an interesting twist on history. The U.S. actually got into the war a year and a half after the Battle of Britain, and as far as "fear of Communism" spreading goes: if that was the case, why was the U.S. supplying the Soviets with war materiel? The fact is, our president does not have the authority to declare war without the agreement of Congress, and Congress and the people didn't want to get involved in your war until the Pacific Fleet was attacked, after which Hitler declared war on the U.S. Nevertheless, The U.S. was supplying Great Britain also.

Half over? Yeah, Jerry was shaking in his jack boots after Dunkirk!

reply

Calacatranis: Given recent posts I can understand you position re Americans. Please realize that some are only half as thick.

reply

Hey Calacatranis,

Where did you obtain so much arrogance? I have enough shortcomings of my own, but my arrogance (cultural as well as national) can not begin to match yours.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile


reply

Calacatranis wrote:

"Being a well-spoken Englishman, I get very irritated by American actors doing bad English accents"

How do you feel about British actors doing bad German accents?

reply

[deleted]

Have a look at the Periodic Table - the preferred spelling is AlumINIum NOT ALUminum.

I found this little tid-bit in reference to the difference in spelling (after all, British English has been around a hell of a lot longer than American English).

"Americans adopted -ium for most of the nineteenth century, with aluminium appearing in Webster's Dictionary of 1828. In 1892, however, Charles Martin Hall used the -um spelling in an advertising handbill for his new electrolytic method of producing the metal, despite his constant use of the -ium spelling in all the patents he filed between 1886 and 1903. It has consequently been suggested that the spelling reflects an easier to pronounce word with one fewer syllable, or that the spelling on the flier was a spelling mistake. Hall's domination of production of the metal ensured that the spelling aluminum became the standard in North America; the Webster Unabridged Dictionary of 1913, though, continued to use the -ium version."

You guys love removing vowels from words - colour, flavour, savour become color, favor and savor. I'm surprised that "your" hasn't become "yor" (lol).

As for the "blame-America-first-crowd", as you put it - well, we don't have much choice since America is the one throwing the *beep* at the fan; the rest of us just have to wear it. What do you expect when you elect a chimpanzee for President not once but TWICE!! That just about sums up the American intellect right there.

BTW, thank him for the "War on Terror" - what a great gift you have given the world!! War on Liberty more like. The Governement & their cronies must have thought all their Christmases had come at once when September 11 happened. They had been trying to find a way into Iraq for years and this gave them the distraction they needed. As bad as Saddam was, no dictator on earth wants to share his strangle hold he has over his country with anyone, let alone terrorists or religous extremists (after all, in their eyes THEY are god). Oh, they ARE there NOW, thanks to the gold ol' US sparking off a Civil War in the country - they just weren't there before 2003. What a mess!! Ask any Iraqi what they think of the "freedom" you have brought? You lot are very selective when it comes to deposing dictators & freeing the people. Wouldn't have anything to do with all the oil in the Middle East & the US's pro-Israel position would it? Nah! That's just being realistic (oops, I mean cynical).

If this is way off-topic just remember that you wrote the cheque (or, so you can understand what I mean, I should Am-spell that "check") so I cashed it.



"In a time of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act." & "If you're not outraged then you're not paying attention."

reply

[deleted]

I MUST make it clear WE did NOT vote that chimpanzee into office! Not only was the office stolen thanks to his brother being the Governor of Florida but also Gore WON the popular vote! So technically WE DID NOT ELECT A MORON TO OUR HIGHEST OFFICE. Until we decide as a country to do away with the horribly outdated Electoral College our votes won't ever make a difference. We marched, we protested and we sued to get that chimp and his family out of our house that he had no right to enter. None of them should be in office/government, and certainly not the head of the FBI when Grandfather Prescott organized a coup against President Roosevelt in hopes of bringing in a fascist government. As well as his Nazi peccadillos. So until the Karl Roves of this country and the Koch brothers stop owning our government we are indeed buggered. I'm an anglophile myself but I must remind you that Britain has made mistakes in it's history as well. We're still a terribly young country- just learning to toddle about really. We're going to make mistakes. I think of Britain as our big sister if you will. Perhaps giving a bit of advice and help dust off our pants when we fall would better our country for everyone on both sides of the pond. I truly wish we'd keep being pigeon holed as "those Americans" "Can't we all just get along?"

reply

expect when you elect a chimpanzee for President not once but TWICE!! That just about sums up the American intellect right there.

BTW, thank him for the "War on Terror" -what a great gift you have given the world!! War on Liberty more like. The Governement & their cronies must have thought all their Christmases had come at once when September 11 happened. They had been trying to find a way into Iraq for years and this gave them the distraction they needed. As bad as Saddam was, no dictator on earth wants to share his strangle hold he has over his country with anyone, let alone terrorists expect when you elect a chimpanzee for President not once but TWICE!! That just about sums up the American intellect right there.

BTW, thank him for the "War on Terror" -what a great gift you have given the world!! War on Liberty more like. The Governement & their cronies must have thought all their Christmases had come at once when September 11 happened. They had been trying to find a way into Iraq for years and this gave them the distraction they needed. As bad as Saddam was, no dictator on earth wants to share his strangle hold he has over his country with anyone, let alone terrorists or religous extremists (after all, in their eyes THEY are god). Oh, they ARE there NOW, thanks to the gold ol' US sparking off a Civil War in the country - they just weren't there before 2003. What a mess!think of the "freedom" you have brought? You lot are very selective when it comes to deposing dictators & freeing the people. Wouldn't have anything to do with all the oil in the Middle East & the US's pro-Israel position would it? Nah! That's just being realistic (oops, I mean cynical).

If this is way off-topic just remember that you wrote the cheque (or, so you can understand what I mean, I should Am-spell that "check") so I cashed it.

"In a time of universal deceit telling

reply

I apologize for the second posting. I'm having difficulty with my mobile.

reply

@Eto Buff. You're an idiot. You believe London to be in England? Well as it's England's capital it would be! If someone made the same enquiry about Washington D.C. in relation to it being in America in such a quizzical manner then I'm sure you'd question their mental state. As to saving our 'asses' during the war, don't you morons ever get fed up of repeating this oft-quoted rubbish? It's either that or that we're 'a bunch of fags'. God, you lot are predictable if nothing else. Yeah, so the Yanks arrived so we all laid down our weapons and let you get on with it. Yeah right. I think you'll find the reality a bit more complex than that - though I realise that it must be rather confusing for you to understand such things given that you're only capable of throwing simplistic, insulting sound-bites at us that have no basis in reality. You're a typical example of an 'ugly American' - no doubt believing in the bull**** that Hollywood churns out, and the way it depicts us - made by idiots who have no more idea of us, our country and way of life than you do - which is exactly nothing.

P.S. Oh, and if it hadn't been for the Pilgrim Fathers (English, don't you know) arriving on those shores of yours back in 1620 with shiploads of us, then your 'American' asses would be nowhere! What a pity that there are still Americans who can't see any further back than 1776, or any further forward than the end of their noses.

America as a lot of things to be proud of. Unfortunately, you're kind isn't one of them. Try taking your head out of your ass and learn something about the people who founded your nation - us!

reply

Holy moly, a lot of keyboard warriors here squabbling about a war in which they never even fought. As for kilometer and its pronunciation, I, as a US citizen, have heard the word pronounced a lot of different ways because we're a lot of different people from a lot of different countries and we travel a lot. England is about the size of one of our States so it's impossible to say "Americans do/say/are....". If those are the Rules then I can easily say that English men are really lousy in bed and are even worse arrogant bores when they're out of it.

For the record, pronounce words however you please but in english, "you're" means 'you are', "your" is a possessive pronoun.

It's a fairly decent drama series and educational in its own way. I really don't think you'd find many Americans who would have allowed a take-over, though, and certainly wouldn't have had a drink with the Germans or allowed them in our homes without some major resistance. We'd rather die first and, like it or not, would have had heavy, personal arsenal and used it without a moment's hesitation or fear.

reply